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  1.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #31
    The Lurking Wolfox Hendikins's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshimaster96 View Post
    What I suggest is that it is off by default, and any user can turn it on.
    We will not be making 18+ content available to unregistered users or known minors. This is not negotiable.

    This discussion covers how content gets classified and possible adjustments to/removals of certain classifications.

  2. #32
    Junior LNight's Avatar
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    As it stands now we have General, Moderate, Mature and Explicit.

    What I am proposing, is to do this:

    Remove explicit.
    Rename mature to adult.
    Rename moderate to mature.
    Make mature and adult content unavailable to anyone who does not have an account and a birth-date making them under the age of 13, which may require a bit of coding to make unavailable by default, as otherwise users and just circumvent it if they happen to use their actual birth-date.

    English aren't my native tongue so I apologize if I can make things sound much more complicated than I intend... Doesn't help I at times try to sound much more clever than I actually am.

    But yeah... That is basically it.
    General will stay the same.
    Moderate will be named mature and pretty much be the same, though combined in with a few things such as fully fledged exposed genitals if need by in nudity pictures which would as it stands now not be allowed.
    While explicit will sort of be removed/combined in with the current mature, which will just be named adult where everything but things which is illegal by law such as child pornography be visible and available for anyone the age of 18+

  3. #33
    I appreciate the Moderate rating, to be honest, as a signifier of "stuff that might not be safe for work, depending on where you work, but isn't legally mandated to be restricted to over-18s". Stuff like fully naked characters with breasts but no nipples, for example, or just anything that's overtly "saucy" but with no nudity. But like DataBank said, there's no reason you should need an account to see that either. I could have sworn there used to be a thing you could click as a guest to enable access to Moderate submissions, but apparently not. Over on (I'm gonna get some flack for even being aware of this, and rightly so) Derpibooru, they have stuff in this category flagged as "Suggestive" with an associated stock thumbnail and you can see it with a simple clickthrough. Maybe something like that. Then people would be more inclined to rate things as Moderate and less likely to get upset if someone changes the rating for them.

  4.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #34
    Retired Staff Frank LeRenard's Avatar
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    Let me just illustrate some of the issues with simplifying things too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by atsidas
    GENERAL: No naked breasts, genitals, sex, or violence

    MATURE: Non-sexual nudity, no arousal, and mild violence

    ADULT: Erotic imagery, sexual activity or arousal, blood, serious injury, strong violence, or death
    So let's take the General rating described above, and let's take it as written and look at enforcement. "No violence". Worded thus, Tom and Jerry cartoons would not be suitable material for the General rating. Since they contain 'mild violence', they'd be rated Mature, and hence lumped in with full-frontal nudity. I'm going to assume most people would think that's absurd (Tom and Jerry, rated M for Mature).

    Now, it's easy enough to write the rules this way, and then as staff develop an agreed-upon method of enforcement, with our own set of policies for things that frequently come up and our own more ethereal moral policy on how to deal with new issues that come up, but all of that would be completely invisible to the users, and as such there would be no accountability. I know that wouldn't be popular at all, because then every staff action would seem utterly arbitrary since it doesn't follow the written rules. The other option would be something bordering on anarchy, which would probably be slightly more popular but would still turn people off when they keep running into material that they don't want to see.

    So for those reasons, I do think a little bit of specificity and carefully-chosen language helps. This is why I'm liking the idea of ditching the Moderate rating altogether and being a bit more loose with what counts as General. Because really, there's a lot less gray area for what counts as "General" or "Explicit" than what counts as "Moderate" (which is gray area by definition). If the use of the word Mature is confusing (which it is), we might rename that category as well to something incredibly clear, like "Artistic Nudity".



    Quote Originally Posted by Firehazard
    they have stuff in this category flagged as "Suggestive" with an associated stock thumbnail and you can see it with a simple clickthrough
    Now this is an intriguing idea....

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger View Post

    2. The Mature and Explicit categories are most likely to remain separate from each other. As Fiz said, in the past they were both the same category, and this was a major issue for many people. It is very unlikely we will go back to artistic nudity and pornography being grouped together. (That being said, if you have ideas for how the wording or content allowed in each category could be changed, that is fair game and we would very much like to hear about that).
    @ Fiz also


    I would suggest then very clear wording on what is and isn't allowed.
    Like perhaps define what Explict Sexual Content means in relation to this website.

    I mentioned earlier, I've gotten reports back as "No Action Taken" when there are clear and naked erections and spread open cheeks to reveal some butthole. Stuff I would have been ask to move when I modded.
    I understand that there is a certain amount of Mod-Discretion, which I like, actually.
    And I'm talking about maybe 4 report tops (some with subs that are no longer even there lol), but I'm still left wondering how it happened in the first place, and perhaps it's just left a little too open to interpretation there.


    Thanks tho for the clarification Fiz~
    Still appreciate how much effort y'all put in <3

  6. #36
    Senior GlaringFeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshimaster96 View Post
    This might be controversial but here goes...Yup. Frankly, if you are all interested, it is no longer required to shelter teens from explicit artwork, and I can provide a primary source if necessary.
    Can you link that source? I'm interested to read about this.



    I'm 16, and I like vore. A very unfortunate combination, and my fondness to anal vore makes things over the edge. I'm rather mature for my age, I notice people misbehaving in class, I'm not afraid to do stuff about it. The teachers also semi-openly agree to this. What do I get for being more mature than average, being more intelligent than average? Nothing.

    It may be equal, but it's not fair. It's also not very scientific. The concept of 18+ assumes there's something significant about age 18. There isn't. I'm not denying the trend that people who are older tend to be more mature though. Take this analogy. Say you own a bakery. You notice that less people buy bread when it's more expensive. Because of this, you set the price to $5 a loaf. Why not $4, or $6? There's nothing to suggest you couldn't. So, back to reality. Why choose 18 when you could very well choose 16 or 20? There's nothing scientific suggesting either of those options, nor the original. Plus, with no law in the way like there used to be, one could freely do such a thing.

    Of course, if there must be a filter, set it so something that has evidence to back it up. For example, you could research when the brain fully develops the ability to make educated decisions regarding sexual content. Not too bad, a few Google searches could do the trick.
    I agree wholeheartedly with what you said and I'm ecstatic that I'm not alone on this issue, but Weasyl has to adhere to the law. I'm 17 and the fact that the laws here in the U.S reduce minors to pets is something that's driven me to tears on multiple occasions. Hell, my age is the main thing I hate about myself and it has been since middle school. I blame the teenagers who don't act like they have a lick of common sense as the main reason why ageists justify the discrimination. I want to break down in tears just typing this out because I know the law still considers me to be my parent's property until I'm 18. It wouldn't be too farfetched to say being mature at a young age is a curse.

    This isn't a debate about the law, Weasyl's rating guidelines have to adhere to the law even though I hate it with a passion. The only way to get around that is if Weasyl were to set itself up like a Chan board where you're completely anonymous but that's not gonna happen.
    -Insert inspirational quote here-

  7. #37
    Regular Uluri's Avatar
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    I'd like to state that I REALLY LIKE that Mature 18+ and Adult 18+ Separate Gore and artistic nudity from porn. I Absolutely HATE shuffling through porn to view the previous content. I can basically keep my browse rating on Mature 18+ and be comfortable at all times without fear of someone happening to look at my shoulders and see Sex all the time. Kinda mentioning something, because I saw a few folks wanting to Combine Gore into the Adult rating, and I am quite opposed to them being combined like that. Searching for art would be horrendous for me if the two were combined. I am very put off from browsing through porn to view content I enjoy viewing.

    I always thought the difference between content ratings Mature and Adult were easy to understand? And very helpful for browsing around. Same goes for Moderate Rating. i really like that it exists. It also is another awesome help when browsing artwork. But I can effectively browse through General+Moderate in public without much concern of onlookers for the most part. Moderate is basically the "Should I say/do this in front of kids I'm babysitting" Category. <-- (My Impressions of the moderate Category)

    The rating for Moderate and Mature for "Sexual situations" is the same. Basically Implied or Suggestive. I assume that's like "making those hand gesture" type things as lude jokes, to like Time skips in scene where "Stuff happens" -eyebrow wiggles-. The difference of the two would be if it ALSO contained content such as Nudity,Gore, ect to put it into Mature content?

  8. #38
    Junior Furrhan's Avatar
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    I think, as one of the users above mentioned, that it might be beneficial to sort the ratings into three categories instead of four.

    The other major thing I have a problem with (and I may be a bit biased here) is this wording here:
    May include incidental or comedic use of drugs such as marijuana, sativa, hallucinogens or prescription drugs.
    I don't think drug use should ever be viewed or described as comedic. Drugs are destructive and dangerous. I would argue that any depictions of drug use (aside from normal use of something like aspirin if a character gets hit on the head or is hungover) should be kept to the mature or explicit ratings. A professional site in my opinion should not trivialise drug use.

    I admit I am biased because I have had a friend killed in a drug-caused car accident and another friend sent to prison for manslaughter related to the same accident but regardless I believe drugs are a serious problem in society that should not be trivialised nor allowed in material viewable by young, impressionable people.

  9. #39
    Junior LNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank LeRenard View Post
    Let me just illustrate some of the issues with simplifying things too much.



    So let's take the General rating described above, and let's take it as written and look at enforcement. "No violence". Worded thus, Tom and Jerry cartoons would not be suitable material for the General rating. Since they contain 'mild violence', they'd be rated Mature, and hence lumped in with full-frontal nudity. I'm going to assume most people would think that's absurd (Tom and Jerry, rated M for Mature).

    Now, it's easy enough to write the rules this way, and then as staff develop an agreed-upon method of enforcement, with our own set of policies for things that frequently come up and our own more ethereal moral policy on how to deal with new issues that come up, but all of that would be completely invisible to the users, and as such there would be no accountability. I know that wouldn't be popular at all, because then every staff action would seem utterly arbitrary since it doesn't follow the written rules. The other option would be something bordering on anarchy, which would probably be slightly more popular but would still turn people off when they keep running into material that they don't want to see.

    So for those reasons, I do think a little bit of specificity and carefully-chosen language helps. This is why I'm liking the idea of ditching the Moderate rating altogether and being a bit more loose with what counts as General. Because really, there's a lot less gray area for what counts as "General" or "Explicit" than what counts as "Moderate" (which is gray area by definition). If the use of the word Mature is confusing (which it is), we might rename that category as well to something incredibly clear, like "Artistic Nudity".





    Now this is an intriguing idea....
    There is a thing as making something to simple and complicated.
    You have to explain things since there can be exceptions to any rule.
    The Tom and Jerry example would include a simple explanation of why that could be allowed under General despite it depicting violence.
    Tom and Jerry level violence is obviously cartoonish, unlike something coming from Fight Club, which is much more on the graphic and gory violence.
    It sounds to me like you're not about to really change anything, so why the purpose of this thread?
    Sorry if I sound hostile, but to me right now it seems like either there will just be added more stuff to make things more complicated than they have to be, or then no changes will be done at all.
    Even with proper ratings the tagging system as it is now, means content might show up to people who may not wanna see it, due to a lag of proper tagging.
    A missing tag can mean someone who wants to just see porn take place in a bathroom or not, might also end up seeing Watersports and Scat when they don't wanna be anywhere near it.

  10.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #40
    Retired Staff Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LNight View Post
    There is a thing as making something to simple and complicated.
    You have to explain things since there can be exceptions to any rule.
    The Tom and Jerry example would include a simple explanation of why that could be allowed under General despite it depicting violence.
    Tom and Jerry level violence is obviously cartoonish, unlike something coming from Fight Club, which is much more on the graphic and gory violence.
    It sounds to me like you're not about to really change anything, so why the purpose of this thread?
    Sorry if I sound hostile, but to me right now it seems like either there will just be added more stuff to make things more complicated than they have to be, or then no changes will be done at all.
    Even with proper ratings the tagging system as it is now, means content might show up to people who may not wanna see it, due to a lag of proper tagging.
    A missing tag can mean someone who wants to just see porn take place in a bathroom or not, might also end up seeing Watersports and Scat when they don't wanna be anywhere near it.
    I'm sorry you feel that we're not going to make any changes. I can assure you, staff has been reading and discussing every post idea that has been brought up so far. There are some ideas that we are interested in discussing more, some that we discussed before making this thread, and some that are actually how the Ratings system already works.

    We're looking for suggestions that offer a different perspective on the current Ratings policy, different wording suggestions, or suggestions on things that should be removed or added. Some of the suggestions that have been brought up are identical to how we do moderation right now, so there's really no need to go further with those, unless the suggestion offers some new ideas for us to consider. Also, a few suggestions have been tried in the past, and they didn't turn out very well for the site, so staff is hesitant to go back to the old policies for that reason.

    We are very open to changing our current policy based on what users have to say, but we need new ideas or changes that will lead to discussion and possibly implementation. Also keep in mind that this thread was opened just two days ago, and it'll be open for roughly four more weeks. If activity in the thread keeps up like it has, I believe it will be very fruitful.

 

 

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