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  1.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #4361
    Retired Staff piņardilla's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by GlaringFeline View Post
    We aren't encouraging a hostile environment; we just don't want this kind of ridiculousness in our community because anyone on the internet can see the damage it's done to Tumblr.
    So, you're not actually trying to be funny so much as discourage people you've decided are undesirable from feeling welcome here. How is that not a hostile environment?
         
       
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  2. #4362
    Senior Eduard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by piņardilla View Post
    So, you're not actually trying to be funny so much as discourage people you've decided are undesirable from feeling welcome here. How is that not a hostile environment?
    A self-preserving environment, I would call it.

  3. #4363
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    Quote Originally Posted by piņardilla View Post
    So, you're not actually trying to be funny so much as discourage people you've decided are undesirable from feeling welcome here. How is that not a hostile environment?
    When those people have hostile, unwarranted attitudes, themselves, and would only make the environment more toxic, how is that not undesirable?

    Are we supposed to be without standards completely?
    Isn't that why the fandom's in such a crappy place, as it is?
    Resident Koopa Trash

  4. #4364
    Senior DrunkCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by piņardilla View Post
    How is that not a hostile environment?
    I think you're conflating hostile with unwelcoming.
    "To tell us that every species of thing is endowed with an occult specific quality by which it acts and produces manifest effects, is to tell us nothing; but to derive two or three general principles of motion from phenomena, and afterwards to tell us how the properties and actions of all corporeal things follow from those manifest principles, would be a very great step." -Issac Newton, Optics
    "You are what you do not do." - Relax

  5. #4365
    Premium User FishNChips's Avatar

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    If you can't handle the bantz, you won't survive anywhere in the world where there are other people.

    And if there are no bantz in the place, there is no place.

    There's a difference between being hostile and jesting.

  6.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #4366
    [Logic is Erratic] Taw's Avatar
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    I can see where both sides are coming from, honestly.

    Running these forums for a few years now, there's a few concerns I have myself in regards to how certain things are handled.

    We've tried different procedures in the past for situations that are sort of similar to what's going on in here and in the "What Grinds Your Gears" thread. Some of you may remember a while ago when we were more heavy handed and slapped infractions on people, or shut down discussions quickly when there was a hint of a problem. This resulted in the forums becoming pretty dead for a while, and effectively destroyed the purpose of the forums themselves.

    We've also tried being extremely lenient with discussions, letting things creep over the line a bit, and seeing how people handled it. Things got out of hand a lot. Heavy infractions were needed for multiple people in some threads. This also did not work.

    We've also had many, many reports from users regarding topics where they feel that the subject matter being discussed should be shut down and not allowed. I personally disagree with this one to some extent. I believe we should promote fair discussion on topics that are appropriate and within our Forum Rules, so long as the discussion does not lead to personal attacks on anyone, or begin to break our rules. I do not agree with the motion of closing a thread because someone got upset over it, or they weren't comfortable with someone's side on a particular issue. If it's within our rules, it should be fair to discuss, and we should be allowing multiple viewpoints from any side to contribute their thoughts on things, not banning discussion the moment someone brings up something on a topic that others don't agree with.

    However, I invite everyone to please PM me your thoughts and concerns with this sort of issue, and what you believe should be changed differently. I will also open a forum announcement thread in the next few days to discuss these sort of issues as a community and see what everyone thinks about this and what we can do differently to try and make the forums as welcoming to people as much as we can, without having to impose restrictions on various topics or views, etc.

  7. #4367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taw View Post
    Some of you may remember a while ago when we were more heavy handed and slapped infractions on people, or shut down discussions quickly when there was a hint of a problem. This resulted in the forums becoming pretty dead for a while, and effectively destroyed the purpose of the forums themselves.
    You don't say.
    "To tell us that every species of thing is endowed with an occult specific quality by which it acts and produces manifest effects, is to tell us nothing; but to derive two or three general principles of motion from phenomena, and afterwards to tell us how the properties and actions of all corporeal things follow from those manifest principles, would be a very great step." -Issac Newton, Optics
    "You are what you do not do." - Relax

  8. #4368
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    I'm going to reply here, as well as PM it to you to make absolutely certain everyone hears it. I've been thinking about this for hours today, in fact.

    Simply put when satire, a traditional means of criticizing something, is being mislabeled as anything but such there's a problem with that rhetoric. There's no difference between "hurrhurr I'm Orangekin" and a cartoon of Mohammad or Jesus or any religious figure.

    What's more, I argue that while any kind of group or organization is comprised of people, groups or organizations themselves are not people. What this means, for some that might not immediately grasp the implications, is that criticism, satire, sarcasm, etc. directed towards an overarching group or organization is not a personal attack. Now that being said, there's a big difference between aforementioned and genuine harassment and I fully believe anyone that makes it a point to bring such things into every discussion should be considered as perpetuating such. We've seen this happen in the forum before and that user is banned.

    My biggest concern with this forum is, always has been, and continues to be it adopting the "It's my house so you're not allowed to say that." playground child mentality. If you're active in this forum community you're well aware that most of it averages about to early 20-somethings. With that in mind I think it's reasonable for people to discuss their opinions like adults. That means with reason, rationality, analysis, etc. If people cannot control their emotions then they should be suitably punished. You have all the time in the world to look at what you say before you submit, this is not even real speech, there is no excuse. I admit that I sometimes forget that myself.

    I fully believe the difference between a child and an adult when it comes to content in this manner is very easy to understand. A child waits and will be quite loud until what it wants arrives, an adult will actively seek what it wants. This is what I meant earlier when I said it is silly that we have people making these demands without being willing to respectfully acquire them.

    I may have further thoughts on this matter, but real life calls. I will revisit this matter and offer anything else I may recall having thought over that 10 hours ago.
    Last edited by Rilvor; 06-23-2015 at 09:13 PM.

  9. #4369
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    1. Draft rules.
    2. Assign weights (infraction points) to each rule.
    3. Set rules into stone.
    4. ????????
    5. Profit.

    Bonus: Use the admin/mod/secret forum to discuss changes/addendum's and only enact such amendments with majority or reasonable agreement. This is your persons community after all, give it the framework y'all want to see. Also ???? is obviously enforce rules fully and impartially. If the rule enforcement becomes too hung up on fuzzy boundaries then they're bad rules and need to be rewritten. The rules need be clear, succinct and easy to reference. (e.g. This violates rule 2a)
    Last edited by DrunkCat; 06-23-2015 at 09:24 PM.
    "To tell us that every species of thing is endowed with an occult specific quality by which it acts and produces manifest effects, is to tell us nothing; but to derive two or three general principles of motion from phenomena, and afterwards to tell us how the properties and actions of all corporeal things follow from those manifest principles, would be a very great step." -Issac Newton, Optics
    "You are what you do not do." - Relax

  10. #4370
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    Perhaps, but rules that are not written properly and based around feelings are immediately flawed in that they are heavily open to misinterpretation, misrepresentation, or outright false-flagging.

    If there's going to be anything such, it has to be equal footing for everyone on every grounds otherwise you're actively segregating others. (And yes, creating a subgroup of people you're not allowed to say X to or have Y interactions with or anything of that nature because it makes them uncomfortable is segregation even if it's some kind of ass backwards means.)

    If the forum becomes a place where I couldn't share clips from Mel Brooks films because of someone being "uncomfortable" then we'll have gone full-Tumblr and I'd have to remove myself.

 

 

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