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  1. #5111
    Quote Originally Posted by GlaringFeline View Post
    Bottom up is probably the best way to think about it. I wish more furries would use their minds though; FA still being active is because of herd mentality. There's really nothing to stay on FA for except the population and popular artists. Take the popular artists out and it's like pulling out the Jenga piece that makes the whole thing topple over. I want to believe that FA's userbase has the critical thinking needed to know when it's time to abandon ship, but Dragoneer's past fuck-ups only proved the opposite to be true. If there isa straw that will break the camel's back, I think it would have to be something absolutely unforgivable but even then there will still be those that kiss his ass.
    The sad and, for me, painful reality of it is that it's precisely because of those popular artists and a lot of the existing (but I believe rapidly dwindling) momentum of Dragoneer's own cult of personality (and even then people have been saying for years it's not even him to blame as much as everyone he ends up surrounding himself with) that, for him and for many, justify the coddling of everyone from animal rapists to child predators in the name of maintaining the illusion of community, togetherness. That's gone, if it was ever there. The cat's out of the bag. The can of worms has been opened. And no one can tell me that didn't have as much to do with the inevitable backlash and downright anarchy we saw on display on those forums as frustration over the treatment of staff, users, and the physical (as much as code can be physical anyway), functional (barely anymore) site itself when that is what so many people focused on in their rants. Again, most, or at least many of us, came to feel like we'd been part of a cult more than a community.

    This is not the first time I've seen it happen. It's the exact reason I may as well be an ex-therian. That community, or whatever is left of it now, was nothing but a hotbed of little cults of personality and like with furry, it was often centered around an artist, or particular handful of artists who all happened to be friends. The only reason I don't name names is because many of those same artists themselves eventually realized what they had become, what they had created, and just slammed the brakes on it. If most are still around, it's in the furry fandom and they now take a drastically different approach to life and online communities.

    We learned our lessons. We simply wish others would learn something from all of this grief.

    Quote Originally Posted by GlaringFeline
    I've never been on Phoenix nor FAF because of how ass-backwards FA itself is, so I can't say anything about how it is now or how FAF was before it caved in; I just watch the slow collapse from a distance.

    ...there isn't as much pressure to conform to anyone or anything external to the pre-existing groupthink of the old forum. Can you explain this point to me? The way it's written might be confusing me.
    Yeah, I knew it wasn't the best way to word what I'm getting at. It's sort of a newish concept to me is why. Basically what I think I'm trying to say is, this kind of sheer, unrefined vitriol, hate and monkey-brained bullshit is really all a lot of these people on FAF and now Phoenix ever wanted. And they, in many ways both subtle and overt, do everything in their dwindling power to impose their views and culture on any and all who step into the digital lion's den. Anyone who opposes it, criticizes it, attacks it, had to be dubbed "crazy" as if there is any semblance of sanity to the alternative they propose beyond the fictional and completely made-up kind of "logic" someone like Heath Ledger's Joker pretends to have for the sake of stirring shit and being a wannabe cyber-villain. It can't even be called trolling anymore when there's no attached notion of a purpose beyond that because most principled trolls do seem to believe they have a greater purpose than just that.

    On FAF you had to at least pay lip-service to that ideal because the rest of the, more or less reality-based, critical-thinking community as you pretty accurately describe who did actually have a bit of influence up until the bitter end would not completely abide a virtual reality simulation of Lord Of The Flies. And the result was this stupid dance where everyone tiptoed around the reality they were trying to create, lobbying to get certain people silenced because they don't like their opinions or just personality of a person in the name of vaguely-defined ideals - ideals they were shitting on in those same threads. I mean, you didn't even have discussions as much as badly designed political campaigns against specific users the minute an OP would get its first reply. Barely anyone attacked a person's ideas as much as the person. It was blatant to some of us.

    All you have to do is read one of the first set of replies in this exchange between me and some guy butthurt about the fact he had a bad day at work and this is why I deserve to "get my balls ripped off" and have all kinds of other violent acts done to me when that same person and others are calling me crazy, violent, "abusive", and this is the same kind of shit I've been subject to in every bad job I had by every bad customer who thinks you, and the world at large owes them a living. So basically, I gotta have a bad day because this jack ass had a bad day and can't go cry to his therapist about it.

    The real world changes your perspective, eventually. That's all that happened to me. The one good thing I saw the last time I bothered with the therian community was this woman who, because she'd recently became a mother and everything took some pity on the kids still clinging to her corner of the community and basically partitioned her site into a playpen for the big kids and an actual discussion group for the true grownups. Frankly, I thought she cared too much for even trying that. But it's an example of how a person with a bit of power can at least try to do something and if it doesn't work, at least she tried. The only thing I see elsewhere people try to do is rationalize the continuation of a lot of toxicity.

    Quote Originally Posted by GlaringFeline
    I understand; from what you're saying it sounds like Phoenix fell flat on it's face trying to be what FAF couldn't.
    Well, it falls flat on its face being a replacement for the popularity of FAF. I think it succeeds all too well in replacing the thing so many others wanted to defect from. Me, I reserved judgment as best I could which admittedly might not have been very well at all, but I encountered nary a soul trying to do anything but prove me right. I'm just one guy, is the thing. Banning me isn't a moral victory, it's a loss of someone who might actually want to and be able to add to your community if you can get over yourselves. But getting over one's self is the antithesis of what a lot of these subcultures are about which is worship of the self even when it's not crass self-worship. But what's one more guy when you lost the majority of those people already, right? So that's why I hardly consider it a loss on my part.

    Quote Originally Posted by GlaringFeline
    I'm with you about the site having to adapt or collapse, technology is always changing and if they aren't going to adapt to it then they can kiss the site goodbye. Considering that FA's coders are infamous for dragging their feet, that might be the thing that brings FA down if the userbase doesn't develop individual thinking before that happens. It took FA about three or so odd years to switch to SSL logins after Dragoneer's account got hijacked on a public network; if the coders had even the slightest bit of competence then that issue would have been taken care of within a week or two if that. That incident was funny, but it should have been a warning for FA to get it's shit together. I don't even think the site is that secure now, and if I'm right it will come as no surprise.
    Yeah, it's really telling that they can't be arsed to fix glaring technical problems that can and truly do pose real threats to not just their site but their persons, but they're right on the ball silencing someone who, say, has a suicidal episode, simply mentions drugs, or draws attention to anything that makes them or anyone they care about look less than stellar. It's not that they can't act, it's that they don't even give a shit until it's pretty much too late. And even then they only care because their vices and base emotions are at stake. Speaking of drugs, just to throw a "hypothetical" out there. Say some dealer wanted your 3DS really bad, and convinced you to let him have it in exchange for this nice big bag of weed, which he can never come up with even as he sells weed to you and everyone else, bops his head to his stupid rap music as he counts all this money around him, updates his Facebook constantly but just hasn't got the time or resources to keep his end of the bargain. Then turns around and calls you a bad friend for telling him, finally, to put on his fucking big boy pants or just call the deal off.

    No, he's the one who wanted the deal, made the deal, and made the promise and followed it with excuse after excuse. But everything else he cares about, that's gotta come first. You can't bullshit people indefinitely.

    Quote Originally Posted by GlaringFeline
    I know I'm guilty of that. I do like that Weasyl doesn't feel like a club of sorts; it's accepting but I feel that the community has limits to what it will accept. There was a diaperfur that joined a while ago and anyone with two brain cells could tell that people didn't exactly like that the person in question introduced themselves with their kink. Kurk pointed out before that the furry fandom being so inclusive is one of it's biggest vices, and I don't point that out just in reference to "exotic" fetishes. The community isn't the kind that praises people that start drama and fling bullshit around like so many people did and still do on FA. When FA finally collapses, I'm hoping that the atmosphere here will deter the brainless morons that will end up searching for something like FA.
    Me and Zaraphayx found this pretty good list-type article from I think Buzzfeed a few years back about furries which we dissected while recording our lil' podcast project and it was just rife with contradictions. Like, it was impossible to tell for certain if these were the misconceptions about furry, or if these were explanations of what the actual fuck furry is about. And it seemed like a great deal of it stems exactly from that, the mindless kind of SJW "tolerance" that is fully intolerant of anything but blind, unquestioning and unconditional acceptance. People forget tolerance and acceptance aren't the same thing. But I think furries, of all people, ought to find tolerance within themselves, even of those they don't like or agree with. The obsession with acceptance renders that impossible, for others and eventually for them because another thing I've seen time and time again is as how these groups shrink and become more and more about infighting and arbitrary tests of loyalty as they do.

    Half the reason I keep using the cult metaphor is because to me and I think at least a few others, FA's demand of photo id and the entire premise of a nondisclosure agreement for a purely, strictly, unpaid, voluntary "job" came off as a blatant attempt at such a "test". Gee, no one bit, how astonishing! Reality trumped fantasy once reality became that cold, bitter and cynical. A critical thinker will just say "I told ya so" because they knew it always was like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by GlaringFeline
    F2F?
    Furry2Furry. It seemed like it was dead in the water but it did eventually find a new home and I believe new name/identity but again, I'll have to check it out before I can really offer much else. I remember the community being far less abusive and abrasive and I don't think I'd have been as upset to see it go down the way it did otherwise, its owner just literally getting the fuck out of dodge, no call, no show, no write, email, PM, nothing. But I truly could not say anything about its successor yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by GlaringFeline
    Sorry if I don't seem like a good person to have a discussion with, I haven't really been in a lot of serious discussions let alone in any about the furry fandom.
    You at least give a damn and can put pettiness to the side for something better. That's literally all most solutions require, that and time and maybe some outside the box thinking to make efforts succeed and last. I'll level, the only reason I even gave a shit about this place after many times on and off here, and not without my own share of problems here, was because after Tha Incident the blatant manslaughter of Red Savage and Milo Time I became determined to let something good come of that. FAF had a golden opportunity to make that happen, and it didn't even try. But here, there were fewer problems to even address. Red especially seemed to see a lot of potential here. I'd love for her faith to be vindicated somehow because it sure as hell was not to be vindicated for a huge chunk of the people she died believing in and playing therapist to. And it probably never will be.

    So on the one hand you have a few lost lives and a few lost causes and communities on the other. One bit of good, a shred of decency, that's all some people want. We can't even get that? Then fuck them. But only them. Everyone else ought to be left alone to try to live in peace.

    Quote Originally Posted by MissFleece View Post
    Dude, Wolf-bone, this was your first post in phoenix and you didn't expect hostility?
    A lot of people started over with clean slates, you chose not to. That's on you.
    Of course I expected hostility. You know when I was really stupid? When I expected anything else from that lot. A clean slate means just that. It's never not taken two to tango and I didn't see a damn bit of difference there in what others were behaving like before I even posted. Basically I didn't repeat the mistake of giving a place another decade before deciding it too was a lost cause. Is that on me too? I'll gladly take the rap then. Fuck Pheonix, just like it was fuck FAF. End of story.
    Last edited by Wolf-Bone; 10-28-2015 at 11:53 PM.

  2. #5112
    Senior Butterflygoddess's Avatar
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  3. #5113

  4. #5114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hewge View Post
    All these walls of salt!

    This place is even more quiet than it used to be. But surely people remaining have been having interesting lives, right? Right? ?

    So - what's everyone been up to?
    Finally moved to Toronto, but my internet is intermittent and my workspace for my comics keeps changing (room too small to draw, I can use a table in the yoga studio beneath me when there are no classes, or the library down the street when there're desks free). Would really like to have all 35 pages done by the new year! How've you been Hewge?

    Quote Originally Posted by Antumbra View Post
    I'll probably use it to write out my comic, I suck at writing actual books. :/

    You?
    Sweet. Are you planning on writing it out like a screenplay, or are you gonna do a bunch of storyboards/thumbnails? It's one of my favourite parts, there's a lot less stress with messing up an entire page when you can just dump ink on a storyboard page.

  5. #5115
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  6. #5116
    Senior Antumbra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pignog View Post
    Finally moved to Toronto, but my internet is intermittent and my workspace for my comics keeps changing (room too small to draw, I can use a table in the yoga studio beneath me when there are no classes, or the library down the street when there're desks free). Would really like to have all 35 pages done by the new year! How've you been Hewge?



    Sweet. Are you planning on writing it out like a screenplay, or are you gonna do a bunch of storyboards/thumbnails? It's one of my favourite parts, there's a lot less stress with messing up an entire page when you can just dump ink on a storyboard page.
    I'll probably do thumbnails first just to make sure I didn't miss some huge plot hole or continuity error, then I'll write it out like a screenplay so I can see if it flows correctly. My worst nightmare is to be halfway through the series and then realize I made a major plot point at the beginning make no sense T_T

    Do you have your comics posted online?

  7. #5117

  8. #5118
    Senior DrunkCat's Avatar
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    Hi kettle!
    "To tell us that every species of thing is endowed with an occult specific quality by which it acts and produces manifest effects, is to tell us nothing; but to derive two or three general principles of motion from phenomena, and afterwards to tell us how the properties and actions of all corporeal things follow from those manifest principles, would be a very great step." -Issac Newton, Optics
    "You are what you do not do." - Relax

  9. #5119
    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkCat View Post
    Hi kettle!
    later black!
    gotta love the ignore feature, eh?

  10. #5120
    Senior DrunkCat's Avatar
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    Last edited by DrunkCat; 10-29-2015 at 02:58 PM.
    "To tell us that every species of thing is endowed with an occult specific quality by which it acts and produces manifest effects, is to tell us nothing; but to derive two or three general principles of motion from phenomena, and afterwards to tell us how the properties and actions of all corporeal things follow from those manifest principles, would be a very great step." -Issac Newton, Optics
    "You are what you do not do." - Relax

 

 

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