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  1. #1

    The Patreon Cancer

    So for the past couple years I've been waging a one-man war on the cancer that is Patreon. I've been with this fandom through numerous cancers in the past; adoptables, YCHs, "emergency commissions", etc. But this hell on earth that is Patreon is where I draw my line in the sand. In the past I've tried rational discourse or simply made snarky comments, but that hasn't stopped anything. Even artists I otherwise respected are now limiting themselves to Patreon.

    So I guess I should probably explain my beef with this. Normally in the past if I wanted a commission I'd simply tell the artist what I wanted if they were open, and if they agreed to it I'd pay them and then get my art. Only once have I ever gotten burned, and that was a long time ago. It was by and large a good system. Now with Patreon, artists essentially beg for money in exchange for "perks". The perks change, the payment amounts change, but it's usually some form of enhanced images and extra streams a month. Usually there is a paywall in place which, at its founding, is minimal and only applies to things like sketches or in progress works, with a few select pieces being Patreon exclusive, but this rapidly expands to almost their entire upload catalog until the only thing they use their public account for is stream alerts and as a loudspeaker for their Patreon. They stop taking all traditional commissions almost immediately and are given almost carte blanche by their supporters.

    Now as a fanfiction writer it is well known I cannot sell or reproduce my work for money. It makes sense, everything I write is subject to copyright law. Well, the same goes for all works produced by other artists. If they upload it for free, it's fine, no money is involved. If they sell it to a commissioner, that's fine too, as it's for personal use, but there is a grey area. See: every artist alley table at conventions. However, when you are being paid a monthly stipend to produce original content and deliver to your patrons a derivative work, that's copyright infringement. I could not ever have a Patreon if I intended to do fanfiction because I'd be getting paid to essentially do what Black Library and other publishers make a living off of by stealing their IPs. Likewise, an artist posting pictures of Link or Krystal or MLP for patrons is doing the same thing, so that's a big no-no.

    Of course this doesn't stop them because they're greedy cucks, and this gives me ample ammunition.

    I've started reporting this shit as I see it in my inbox. If they're too greedy and lazy to come up with their own OCs, or do commissions of the work, or just post it without having Patreon involved, then I have no qualms marking that shit. Is this fox and the grapes? A little, I wish I could get paid to rip off other people's intellectual property. Is it petty and vindictive? Oh yeah, artists don't owe me commissions. Well, one does, but he's already been run off the site. Is that gonna stop me from making a jackass of myself? NOPE!
    Get a loada this guy here.
    https://twitter.com/DogdongD

  2. #2
    Senior Antumbra's Avatar
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    Congrats?

  3. #3
    Junior sdos's Avatar
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    Hi,

    I'm a very skilled artists, give me all your money. *hides gun*

    Well... in a serious note. I'm not really sure if you're upset with patreon as how it works or some users from the service available at patreon.

    I think you should know by now that people at patreon and other sites can and will continue to post Fan art. Big time companies don't mind at all since it's free ads and visibility to that company. It's pretty much an acceptable "deal". Also most fan art is an interpretation of that character by the artist.

    It's actually deeper that this... You actually have some movies, (not going to mention the one I'm talking about), that actually used fan art to create/influence new art for a new movie and when that was discovered they had to pay the artists that did that 1st fan art piece... Confused? lol.

  4. #4
    There's nothing wrong with fan art, there's nothing wrong with commissions, the issue is when you're producing fan art for a monthly fee. This would be the equivalent of me getting paid to write fanfiction every month or someone getting a salary from fans to program Super Mario games.

    My beef is with "some users" but mostly with Patreon for enabling terrible habits. People who put everything behind a paywall, stop doing traditional commissions, or insist that they be paid for posting their art because "artists deserve to make a living for their work" as if by virtue of voluntarily uploading content to a website they are entitled to the viewer's money. I've called them out on this shit before to no avail, so now I'm actually reporting them.
    Get a loada this guy here.
    https://twitter.com/DogdongD

  5. #5
    Junior sdos's Avatar
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    I see your valid point but it's only valid to some extent, in my view of course.

    Supporting creative minds is what patreon is for and you think artists who do fan art for 1 month is maybe not creative work for that kind of monthly fee system. I get that but fan art or not it's still a creative task to personalize fan art and it's still hard work.

    You don't pay for the art or content in patreon, you pay to support someone you enjoy seeing while he paint, sings, etc. You can get some perks if paying but that's what the artists wants to give the users. Patreon doesn't enforce any user to give perks to their users.

    Patreon is a support creators site. The art and perks are available for users to learn from, videos on how artist A did that image or how artist B did that sketch line, PSD files with layers on how he setup the image and commissions for user A or user B.

    I think it's a cool topic tho and enjoy debating with you. Hope you read my comments in a good mood like I do read yours.

  6. #6
    I don't care what Patreon says it is, if they're drawing fan art and explicitly state it's for their patrons, then their patrons are paying them to draw fan art. If I fuck a whore and then leave $200 on the dresser as a "gift" to support a "single mother" it's still prostitution.
    Get a loada this guy here.
    https://twitter.com/DogdongD

  7. #7
    Junior sdos's Avatar
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    Ok in your last post you just sound bitter.

    Stay well and good luck.

  8. #8
    Senior Kurk2288's Avatar
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    You know I don't have a horse in this race, and I don't think reporting them will matter TA. Don't waste time.
    Patreon takes a (5%) cut and won't be bothered. Unless contacted by those whom own copyrights.

    The double standard may be unfair but writing isn't the only medium affected. Take mods for example. They're by and large free (not f2p). Yet that doesn't stop companies like Microsoft or EA from sending cease & desists. No matter how insignificant, crappy or stylized the fan project actually is.

    Some food for thought. People don't usually pay artists for a product, per se. Rather they're buying their services. Another example. Concept artists *pretty much* pass responsibility of infringement onto employers or contractors. Since they're providing reference materials, art direction, etc. One could also argue parodying isn't illegal. Personalization or stylistic renders are grey areas. Butt Meh. Fan art is all around murky waters, plus fuck corporations.

    As for abandoned galleries, "Patreon billboards" or streaming megaphones.
    Nothing you can do about that. Unless it's against site rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by TeenageAngst View Post
    If I fuck a whore and then leave $200 on the dresser as a "gift" to support a "single mother" it's still prostitution.
    Not if you get her pregnant. Then it's called child support. LoL.

    Edit: I use to have a $1 paywall to my streams via paypal.
    Had a lot of bots and retards spamming my chat or stuff.
    So I imagine Patreon could be pretty useful...
    Last edited by Kurk2288; 12-17-2015 at 11:13 PM. Reason: typos

  9. #9
    Yeah I'm finding reporting them is a bit meaningless. I'm still bitchy about it though, it's the bottom of a very long hill of laziness and showing contempt for their followers. First it was tracing and art theft, then it was YCH and auction slots, then it was adoptables and emergency commissions, and now we're down to them in many cases simply asking for money every month with nothing offered in return. It wouldn't stick in my craw so much if they didn't do it under the self-righteous banner of "I'm an artist and I DESERVE to make a living off my art."
    Get a loada this guy here.
    https://twitter.com/DogdongD

  10. #10
    Senior GlaringFeline's Avatar
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    Most freelance artists don't get paid what they deserve, so I can see the use for Patreon in that respect to help people who live off their art get more money to pay the bills. I also have gripes about Patreon; about the way it's run and about the people that use it and I agree with all the points you made in your original post save for the points about fan-art; the legalities of fan-art are fucking confusing when money is brought into the equation, so I try to avoid it altogether and I'm still unsure about my stance on it.

    My main complaint with Patreon as a whole is that they claim Patreon is not for porn but you look at some of the work that is made by Patreon users and it includes shit like beastiality, cp, rape, among other things like incest.

    "Patreon is not for pornography, but some of the world’s most beautiful and historically significant art often depicts nudity and sexual expression. Because of that, we allow nudity and suggestive imagery, as long as it is marked NSFW. Think of the policy as allowing “R Rated” movies... but not porn. In keeping with our strong commitment to safety, we have zero tolerance for content that sexualizes children in any way."

    That quote is taken right from the Community Guidelines and I call bullshit on it like anyone with a functional brain; the Encyclopedia Dramatica article on Patreon links to a shitton of Patreon users that make all of the shit I mentioned above and more. The site doesn't even adhere to it's own rules, like most big sites.

    My complaint with the community as a whole is, like TA pointed out, it enables artists to be greedy shitbags. Some things I can understand paying for like being able to see some wips and downloading the wip files, but moving your entire gallery behind a Patreon paywall and only using other sites you're on as an advertisement for your Patreon is ridiculous.

    Overall, Patreon has some positive aspects but the idea behind the site was twisted and abused by greedy fucks who want a fatter wallet(including Patreon's staff themselves).
    -Insert inspirational quote here-

 

 

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