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  1. #1
    Junior CrazyLee's Avatar
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    That crazy county clerk in Kentucky who hates teh gays...

    Unless you've been living in a cave you may have heard of the lady in Kentucky who refuses to issue any marriage licenses to gays because of her religious beliefs.

    So far, she refused a license to some gay couples. One of them had the ACLU sue her on their behalf. Various courts ruled against her, she appealed, lost again. Finally, SCOTUS didn't even bother to hear her appeal, they just told her to due her damn job.

    Next day, she again refused to issue the marriage licenses, saying she was doing so on "God's Authority" thus breaking the First Amendment right of separation of church and state. She's scheduled to be in court on Thursday for contempt of court, but of course, her lawyers, the Liberty law firm (the same fundie law firm that I think defended the pizza owner), are claiming she didn't get proper due process. And the fun continues.

    The problem I see with all of this is it's going to give the right wing fundies a martyr to parade around much like how Palestinians parade around a dead child while they scream Death to Israel. She's already doing the martyr thing herself. Because somehow being forced to do your job is the same as the disciples of Jesus being crucified, tortured, murdered, put in gladiator arenas, and fed to lions. Right.

    But the fundies will use her as an example. Fundies with WAY TOO DEEP pockets (probably because of tax-exempt status) will send her barrels of money. She'll write a book about how terrible her life is. She'll get a speaking circuit where like-minded idiots will hear what she has to say and say "see, I told you there's a war on Christians". And being that it's a presidential election season all the GOP candidates will try to out-far-right each other supporting her. "Look at me" they will say, "I am more conservative than that smuck!" (another reason why primaries need to be removed, but that's another discussion). Mike Huckabee is already defending her (but of course he is, who's surprised?)

    Sadly the far right will use this as a prime example about how Obama is anti-Jesus and, like the communist he is, trying to destroy Christianity. And how there's a war against Christians. I haven't heard anything yet about it from the right wing talk show nuts that I listen to, while they scream and bleat, but I know they will pick it up today. Michael Savage will be particularly fun to listen to.

  2. #2
    Senior DrunkCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyLee View Post
    The problem I see with all of this is it's going to give the right wing fundies a martyr to parade around much like how Palestinians parade around a dead child while they scream Death to Israel.
    There is so much wrong with this one sentence. Some cunt in Tennessee saying no to the gay marriage doesn't really compare to killing children.
    "To tell us that every species of thing is endowed with an occult specific quality by which it acts and produces manifest effects, is to tell us nothing; but to derive two or three general principles of motion from phenomena, and afterwards to tell us how the properties and actions of all corporeal things follow from those manifest principles, would be a very great step." -Issac Newton, Optics
    "You are what you do not do." - Relax

  3. #3
    Premium User Oly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkCat View Post
    There is so much wrong with this one sentence. Some cunt in Tennessee saying no to the gay marriage doesn't really compare to killing children.
    Yeeeah, you lost me there too.

  4. #4
    Regular TX Coywolf's Avatar
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    You lost me at "First Amendment right of separation of church and state". That is nowhere in the Constitution, but I do agree that because gay marriage is legal now, she should either do her job or quit.

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    Senior DrunkCat's Avatar
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    Public School education is worse than I thought...
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    Though I will concede that what you quoted is poorly written.
    "To tell us that every species of thing is endowed with an occult specific quality by which it acts and produces manifest effects, is to tell us nothing; but to derive two or three general principles of motion from phenomena, and afterwards to tell us how the properties and actions of all corporeal things follow from those manifest principles, would be a very great step." -Issac Newton, Optics
    "You are what you do not do." - Relax

  6. #6
    Premium User Oly's Avatar
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    I thought the church/state thing was in the constitution? Of course being Canadian and homeschooled I never bothered studying all that shit so I'm not surprised if I'm wrong.

    A quick google tells me that the phrase itself isn't in the first amendment, however it's usage stems directly from the first amendment pretty much since inception. I'd say that's enough to consider his statement sound. Your mileage may vary i suppose.

  7. #7
    Regular TX Coywolf's Avatar
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    The first amendment places restrictions on the government from placing regulations on the practice of religion & from having a religious requirement to hold public office. It is seperation of the state from the church. It does not say holders of public office cannot be religious or let their religious convictions and morals influence policy making decisions. This is why some states like Texas still have blue laws. They are not unconstitutional but are born primarily of religion.

    The phrase "Seperation of church and state" is not found anywhere in the Constitution because it first appears in 1802 from Thomas Jefferson in a letter to a Baptist Church.
    "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."

    So I guess I will leave it at that. I didn't join here to debate politics anyway. Sorry I brought it up.

    I do apoligize for the edit, but rbartrop's post is spot on and left me feeling that i should clarify my postion. The clerk had no right to deny the marriage permit. She is a government employee and she cannot use religious beliefs to circumvent law. My post here should not be taken as a religious or political argument, I just really do not like that common misquotation of the Constitution.
    Last edited by TX Coywolf; 09-02-2015 at 09:17 PM.

  8. #8
    On a related note, up here, Calgary Transit decided to put a rainbow on one of their buses for Pride Week, and one of the drivers has decided it violates his deeply held beliefs. The company decided he didn't have to drive, but he's still raising a stink because he's decided the fact that the rainbow bus exists violates his deeply held beliefs.

    The comparison to dead Palestinian babies is way out of line, but as I see it, the real problem is the failure to grasp the concept that your personal beliefs, are just that, *your* beliefs. This in no way obligates the rest of us to follow them. Your job there is to execute the laws of the state, and your views on them are no more relevant than those of the Muslim checkout girls at the grocery store on the pork roast I bought. The rest of us will just have to take our chances with eternal damnation.

  9. #9
    If a group I didn't like were going to parade around some ridiculous idiot as their mascot, I don't think I'd be upset. Nor if they decided to drive each other further toward an extreme that society as a whole is gradually moving away from.

  10. #10
    Senior DrunkCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TX Coywolf View Post
    I just really do not like that common misquotation of the Constitution.
    "Separation of church and state" isn't a misquotation. SCOTUS uses it repeatedly to refer to that portion of the first amendment of the constitution. It's a valid paraphrase of that particular segment of the first amendment.

    This is worse than arguing for or against the Stanford comma because it's just flat wrong.
    "To tell us that every species of thing is endowed with an occult specific quality by which it acts and produces manifest effects, is to tell us nothing; but to derive two or three general principles of motion from phenomena, and afterwards to tell us how the properties and actions of all corporeal things follow from those manifest principles, would be a very great step." -Issac Newton, Optics
    "You are what you do not do." - Relax

 

 

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