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  1. #311
    Retired Staff ChaosCalix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarukai View Post
    According the FAtransparency twitter feed, we are expected to hear a respone from Dragoneer about the forum split at some point today. Either he's been pestered enough to comment on it (whack-a-critic style) or he's doing a victory lap in his own mind.
    For those that don't want to go hunting for the specific tweet (though it's easy to find), here's a link to it. Supposedly it isn't confirmed that he will, though they were tipped off about it. So don't get your hopes up just yet. We'll see how this plays out.

  2. #312
    Regular smelge's Avatar
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    Nobody seems to have addressed it yet, but does IMVU actually have a claim to any of the data on the forums?

    It was hosted free of charge on someone elses webspace. Did FA ever actually own anything other than the software license for VBulletin? If they didn't, then they have no claim to the forum contents, and if Dragoneer sold off the site and forum, then he misrepresented the legality of the sale.

  3. #313
    Senior Sarukai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smelge View Post
    Did FA ever actually own anything other than the software license for VBulletin? If they didn't, then they have no claim to the forum contents, and if Dragoneer sold off the site and forum, then he misrepresented the legality of the sale.
    I don't think FA owned the license either. The only thing that would belong to them related to the forums is the FA branding, which was removed with the split. Everything else is user and staff generated content. The forum itself would not have been sold to IMVU, but the brand is very likely.

    Not getting the memo, IMVU would assume theft. It's faster to throw out idle threats than it is to research what has happened.

  4. #314
    Doesn't seem that any of that matters if it's never challenged.

  5. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Hendikins View Post
    I've been lurking in #phoenix as a matter of personal interest. The following is direct from Carenath, quoted with permission (a couple of lines from other users have been snipped).
    Thanks, I never asked what was sensitive and what wasn't, so I disclosed only the most important bits.

    But there may be good fortune in our fortune. Yeah, FAF-In-Exile/Phoenix is dead in the water, and maybe Piche does do a victory dance, but he will also hear some stern words from IMVU. He apparently didn't tell 'em nothing about the split and they shat their pants after they heard. He was negligent in upholding their data security protocols and now he will feel the consequences. Even if it's just a slap on the wrist, a worm like Piche will piss himself facing Daddy IMVU and having to explain himself.

    Considering IMVU completely circumvented the Three Stooges and used Yak as their sole representative, that must mean they place no trust in him whatsoever.

  6. #316
    Senior WolfNightV4X1's Avatar
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    R.I.P FAF/Phoenix

    Phoenix was a rather short-lived dream

    Guess I'll go have a lyfe now. Weasyl will probably still suit my forum-related needs when I feel like it
    Howl 'Havoc' and let slip the wolves of war

  7. #317
    Regular smelge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarukai View Post
    I don't think FA owned the license either. The only thing that would belong to them related to the forums is the FA branding, which was removed with the split. Everything else is user and staff generated content. The forum itself would not have been sold to IMVU, but the brand is very likely.

    Not getting the memo, IMVU would assume theft. It's faster to throw out idle threats than it is to research what has happened.
    VBulletin is licensed, so someone has to have bought it.

  8. #318
    Premium User QT Melon's Avatar


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    Quote Originally Posted by smelge View Post
    Nobody seems to have addressed it yet, but does IMVU actually have a claim to any of the data on the forums?

    It was hosted free of charge on someone elses webspace. Did FA ever actually own anything other than the software license for VBulletin? If they didn't, then they have no claim to the forum contents, and if Dragoneer sold off the site and forum, then he misrepresented the legality of the sale.
    Please go back and read the thread. I did address who bought the license in a reply that was directly quoted from you.
    Last edited by QT Melon; 09-24-2015 at 11:59 AM.

  9. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Hendikins View Post
    I've been lurking in #phoenix as a matter of personal interest. The following is direct from Carenath, quoted with permission (a couple of lines from other users have been snipped).

    [13:50:23] <Carenath> So since a number of you have been hearing different things regarding actions taken, let me at least be honest and clarify. And I'm doing this for the sake of being up-front even though the current backlash against FA for their actions is something I consider poetic justice.
    [13:53:17] <Carenath> 1. There was a tentative agreement with yak, pending resolution of who-gets-what with the data. Yak was discussing with myself, Kalmor, Mentova and I believe two others who collectively represented the community interests. Kalmor is a better spokesperson than I am so I let him handle that aspect.
    [13:53:17] <Carenath> The sticking point was, apparently, not the data in the public threads at all. The sticking point was the personally identifiable information ("private data") which they could not (apparently under US law) permit to be sent to an unauthorized third party, me.
    [13:53:42] <Carenath> Before any resolution on that could be reached, actions were taken both on my part and on the part of FA itself (by Yak himself at request of management) that triggered this and resulted in no peaceful solution now being available to us although I remain at least tentatively optimistic that something might be doable but it would require a quid-pro-quo on my part.
    [13:54:38] <Carenath> a. FA management asked Yak to de-link the forums and he did so without considering how I might react. I never thought to contact him and assumed such action was a precursor to FAF being shut down by way of DNS embargo.
    [13:55:35] <Carenath> b. I moved wholesale over to phoenix.corvidae.org and removed any FA-specific data expecting then that FA would contact me to request the database backup I had pledged to provide them, sans PII that nrr and others expressly wanted removed and their approval to do this.
    [13:55:54] <Carenath> I setup the redirect message (in hindsight, a simple transparent 301 might have been better)
    [13:56:46] <Carenath> c. IMVU found out about this, and were not happy. Not just because they saw this as a security breach (they were never included in the plans Yak was working on with us so had no idea what was going on it seems)
    [13:57:30] <Carenath> d. I get reached out to, directly, by one of their guys looking to resolve things amicably and without going to the lawyers (nobody likes paying lawyers)
    [13:58:31] <Carenath> Yak relayed what was planned, to deal with me, because he did not want me to be placed in harms way, he did not want this whole situation to happen, he actually cares in his own way about the community and was, to his sadness, willing to help us split with all sides happy.
    [13:59:34] <Carenath> And what he had told me was that if I cooperated, destroyed the data copies I had after giving FA a copy of the database and forums (prior to the modifications I had made) that they would not press further on the issue. There was no official C&D issued, there was the threat of criminal proceedings if I refused to play nice.
    [14:01:20] <Carenath> IMVU take data protection seriously because its a legal liability. Unfortunately the aftermath of this is that nobody on FA staff wants to listen to yak's input so the option to ask for the forum dataset, say, without any of the private messages, or other Private Data is completely off the table unless something changes.
    [14:01:54] <Carenath> Consequently my only options are: do nothing at all and throw in the towel, OR, setup a new forum and collectively we work to build a better community than what we had.
    [14:02:36] <Carenath> I hold zero blame towards Yak in this, if anything, he's the only person in the whole group that has any common sense.
    Timestamps are Australian Eastern Standard Time.
    Quoting over here since some people seem to have missed it.

    The bottom line is that even if we did stand our ground and not give in, none of us have the time nor the massive amount of money required to fight in court with IMVU over this, criminal or civil, which we may not even win anyway. They're a multi million dollar company and we're just a few people that run a furry forum. You don't play legal games with companies that can ruin you.

  10. #320
    Senior Saiko's Avatar
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    Holy shit, actual communication about what happened. See, this explains the problem and makes IMVU's reaction make an ounce of sense.

 

 

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