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  1. #31
    Senior GlaringFeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toshabi View Post
    If you want my thoughts on it all, it has to do with the foundation that was laid before hand. Furaffinity has always had this mire-complex about it that slowly grew and grew from neglect from the mainsite staff. It became a HUB for drama of the sorts, and that sort of environment attracts a certain crowd of people. When you leave shit on the floor, the flies will come. FA has a lot of that laying about the premise. FAF "collapsed" simply because the mainsite staff don't have their act together.

    As for "We're a culture of assholes", I still believe that's, more or less, a result of environment. Weasyl isn't exactly perfect, but the mood of the forums are night and day when compared to one another.

    If you choose to be a positive influence in an environment that's hostile and destined to be hostile (faf), then that's your own prerogative. I, personally, am not really one for inspiring/encouraging reform in places that really don't need it/are worth the time. Furry is broad and general. There are hundreds of communities to associate yourself to (I have several I'm apart of). There is the occasional drama, but nothing has ever surfaced in my search that was comparable to what FAF is. That's not a unique case, persay, just rare. That just jumps back to my point about the mismanagement/neglect of the community leaders of FA.

    Lastly, Crocpronouns only. Dudecroc works too.
    I agree with this wholeheartedly! Community members help shape what community they want to have, but moderators of fandom sites also contribute to cultivating a general attitude. Since FA is the center of the fandom, they had a big part in shaping the fandom and unfortunately, they decided to mold it into a turd and let it dry. If people try to reshape the fandom now, it'll break; they should have done the reshaping while it was still moist and easy to sculpt.

    I don't believe that the fandom can be reformed. All that can be done is the intelligent members breaking off from the turds and molding communities of their own and cultivate a no-bullshit atmosphere.
    Last edited by GlaringFeline; 08-31-2015 at 02:58 PM. Reason: added the second paragraph, fixed wording in the first
    -Insert inspirational quote here-

  2. #32
    I have some final-ish thoughts on what you guys have been going through for what seems like—well, a while. I remember reading an article written in 1998 where the author was concerned about these very same issues. So this is by no means a new thing for sure. Except now there appears to be a lot more historical baggage.

    There's been some comments saying that there's no point in complaining about something you can't change. Community is most certainly something you can change. You just have to be diligent and understand that anything that involves people—even one-on-one relationships—will take a lot of time to do right. If you are wanting change fast, you'll get push back, and the push back can be fierce.

    Understand the whole ecosystem of the community you are in, both social and financial. People want friends and they want a living. Be sensitive of both when you try to create a strategy for improving a community. Understand that furry fans and furry artists have different motives as to what they want to change (or not change) in the community. Some of these things are mutually exclusive. I think this is the reason why your public image hasn't changed much. There's actually 4 quadrants or groups that the stigma affects; only half of those groups are within the fandom. I'll only go into depth about that if those are observations people care about.

    Form new communities with new expectations of conduct. The minimum size of a group of people that provides everyone all the social support and diversity they need to feel like they are part of a healthy community is actually much, much smaller than you think. Who cares if your new site or community is small. It might stay small for a while. It might stay small forever. That's okay. It's not about winning a popularity contest. It's about living happy lives and having meaningful relationships. That should be your goal. It's possible that such a sub-community will grow and become a beacon for the larger community that it's a part of, at which point they may take notice and follow your examples. That's a good strategy and pretty much the only way to change large communities, but to be happy you'll want to set a realistic goal of just trying to surround yourself with good people and not let poisonous people into your community. Happy people are more successful.

    Always rebuke in private for bad behavior, never in public. Dissent is not a form of disloyalty. Forming and being part of a community with higher standards is not elitism.

    As for us, we don't really have a dog in this fight, but we kind of do. The fandom that will gather for our project will be easier for us to mold and influence, and of course the fans that it will attract will be based on the content of our project. It was pointed out in another post that fandoms based on commercial properties have an easier time with difficult fans and their public image. And yes, that will be a big plus for us. We just had to make sure that all of our character designs are strong and don't look—um, furry.

    I've said it before and I'll repeat it here. You guys are not alone. There's tons of people out there that think animal characters are awesome. You have an army of allies that outnumber the furry fandom. Like you guys, we just want to be able to like the things that we like. We may not be waving a paw-print banner over our heads, but we are still on your side.

  3. #33
    One of the main problems I think people have in the first place is in thinking when they "break free" and set their flag down somewhere else that they're going to be, or even really need to be much more than an improved version of what was already there. A "new" fandom doesn't mean literally a new furry fandom or community. Maybe the best approach is to think of the fandom as a whole as "the fandom" and a place like a site or forum as one possible, intentional community. I prefer to use to two terms near-interchangeably because where everyone belongs to a diaspora in some sense, I tend to think of a "community" as being the thing that moves from place to place, even if it's not all the people in all the places all at once. Some actually go a lot further than me in that logic and think of just a forum as one example of a community an an associated site as another entirely, and that was FA's trademark philosophy (or excuse).

    I don't think anyone has to really try to reinvent the wheel when it comes to what constitutes a furry. Maybe that's important to some. To me it's never been as important as what a culture is, what a community is. Debating who is and isn't a furry is debating what the fandom is and that should be the easy part. The debate should be in how we express that in terms of how we view and treat each other and any questions of belonging or not, like in any community that's more than the sum of its parts, ought to hinge more on that than the details.

    At the end of the day, an individual furry's relationship with "the outside world" really comes down to that individual and the rest of the world, something like furry just being an accessory. Maybe a double-edged sword, but it's neither your main weapon or your biggest burden, whatever role it plays in that relationship. So again, I've never been about a "burned furs" type of mentality. My mentality is more like this. I go to McDonald's one day and see that not only are they putting MLP figurines in the Happy Meals, but this time they are anthros. But they don't look quite like how we'd do anthros. They look like how the MLP artists would do anthros.

    Now, some furries would look at that and either get mad that "they" are "copying us". Other would worry about what it means for furries' image, or the outside world knowing more about us through milestones like that. But all I have ever learned from watching this happen to anything, whether it be a new sound, a new fashion, a new kind of entertainment or technology, is that what seems like turbulence and uncertainty is actually opportunity. It's a movement going on, most aren't even aware there is on or that it has some kind of direction it could go in and a meaning it could take on.

    That, I believe, is where the individual does his best work for the community. If the attitude is good, what they do will be good, and will reflect good on them which is what's really important and any positive rep or good will it brings to anyone else is something that has to be hoped for more than planned and controlled. When and how that happens is just like the problem with knowing, identifying and figuring out how to take advantage of said "movement".

    See, that's just the thing about subcultures like furry, therianthropy, otherkin, etc. They're not cults. They're the very thing people turn to in response to society's mindless conformity and perpetual negativity. That's why they're so important. But that's also why it remains so important that people never lose site of why these things exist; to be an alternative, a temporary refuge for unique, creative, eccentric and curious individuals. So I don't want to see changes that turn us into some online utopia, just changes in attitude that make us better individuals with a sense of community because I think collective interests, where they exist, do manage to surface and force themselves to be addressed in spite of every individual or collective effort to avoid it. The goal really ought to be to make problem solving a way of life and not just a last-minute, 11th hour, last-ditch effort to save something people are no longer sure they even want saved.

  4. #34
    Senior Viciviser's Avatar
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    Dude. Metsys and Wolf-Bone. You guys. For real. Thanks for these thoughts. I feel more in a community because of thoughts like this. It's why I'm confused at some people's reactions and assumptions about what's been said. This isn't some insane rush to form your own following. This isn't some coup. It's not some elitist "who's in" and "who's out" bid. Just wanting some real fellowship despite shit hitting the fan. That people can hold it together even in the chaos and not attack each other just because they're unhappy about whatever inevitable change has come our way.

    And yes, the fringe of the furry community is bigger than the furry community itself. We should all reach out and look at opportunities for what they are.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Viciviser View Post
    Dude. Metsys and Wolf-Bone. You guys. For real. Thanks for these thoughts. I feel more in a community because of thoughts like this. It's why I'm confused at some people's reactions and assumptions about what's been said. This isn't some insane rush to form your own following. This isn't some coup. It's not some elitist "who's in" and "who's out" bid. Just wanting some real fellowship despite shit hitting the fan. That people can hold it together even in the chaos and not attack each other just because they're unhappy about whatever inevitable change has come our way.

    And yes, the fringe of the furry community is bigger than the furry community itself. We should all reach out and look at opportunities for what they are.
    Glad to have done something for at least one person. I went away for a bit to try to do a thing or two for myself for a change and holy shit. I've come back to find this thread because another thread devolved into a discussion about me. Wow, fuck that. I don't blame any one person because it's like, the originator or whatever and I pretty much hashed out our disagreement or sort of came to a certain understanding as I recall, and it's kinda anyone else's issue if they fail to account for that. But I just don't like the situation I guess. That is not what I intended to be part of. So maybe it's best I keep away.

    FAF seems to be in what I would like to dub The Floating Island Phase. It's being lifted, uprooted, projected into the sky by a new found energy from within. I think the Floating Island metaphor works because the main fuel was chaos and emeralds, even if a lot of those emeralds were dug up by the only functional dog with fetal alcohol syndrome that side of the wastelands. Yeah, the big buff guardian with the dreadlocks was off finding his own "jewels" and guarding his own island (peninsula technically but with global warming, it's only a matter of time, we will be an island). And look, things might have gotten better on their own, people talking about me when I ain't even there not withstanding.

    Weasyl's got mods giving a shit and posters posting with effort and at least the ability to debate the merits of debating a person as opposed to a topic. You know, that was one of the main things that used to make me and I think a lot of people rage at FAF. So if people are even mindful of that, that's a breakthrough for a lot more people than just me and those one or two people if it's demonstrable to more. If Weasyl's going to be a place where that happens, yeah, count me in but I'm just loving this whole independence thing a lot, working on some of the more creative shit I have on the brain. Weasyl seems to be in pretty good hands, FAF is out of ours but in hands that at least want some of the right things.

    Dunno about y'all but I just wanna flood both with some decent, cutting-edge shit. And get laid in the process.

  6. #36
    what about the deviantART furries and how the fandom there has turned into a business of "original" closed species and rushed adoptables being sold for hundreds of dollars??? and then if someone objects literally hundreds of people flame them D:

    also for some reason the popular furries there (the ones who "own" the closed species) are seen as gods by most of the community
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  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by DalmationCat View Post
    what about the deviantART furries and how the fandom there has turned into a business of "original" closed species and rushed adoptables being sold for hundreds of dollars??? and then if someone objects literally hundreds of people flame them D:

    also for some reason the popular furries there (the ones who "own" the closed species) are seen as gods by most of the community
    The best guess I got is because people who think and talk like that epitomize what we in tha game are known to call Player Hating. Generally, creepin' on ah comeup around tha way in tha muthaphukkin One-Five, you gotta be on yo' hustle on tha daily, workin' late on tha graveyard shift and all of that. We got such a crab mentality nowadays. Know what I'm sayin'? You see your brothers and sisters out there just tryin' to make some money to feed they folks n shit workin' this bullshit fur fandom fame game. What would a begga do, go out there trying to gang bang? But what if that ain't you? And furry thangs don't get one put down by tha system, a victim of state capital Redrum and in tha States where y'all from that's the most likely outcome. Yeah, respect. Wolf-Bone, Boneyard Warlord, freestyle in this bitch and we out.

  8. #38
    Is furry a fetish or a fandom? Because i have noticed in many interviews with furries nowadays in local newspapers,they say it is not a fetish,but a fandom.

    http://www.startribune.com/call-of-t...d/306002911/#1

  9.   This is the last staff post in this thread.   #39
    feline fine Noxid's Avatar
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    depends who you ask, really

  10. #40
    Regular erzyal's Avatar
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    I don't know what OP is talking about. Since I started going on furry forums I have met like 2 or 3 assholes but almost everyone else I have met has been very kind and fun.

    Oh god does that mean i'm one of the assholes?! o_o
    WHO STOLE MAH MUFFINS!

 

 

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