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  1. #11
    Senior Vae's Avatar
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    I just don't understand why the "community feel" to fandoms is a requirement.
    That's actually what I liked about FAF, speaking of FAF, because it wasn't a group of furries (or exclusively furries). It was just people, talking about shit.
    The topic shifted to furries off and on because it was the Furaffinity Forums, after all, but it was not an overbearing focus.
    (I've visited exclusively furry forums, and I couldn't fucking stand them.)

    Why we even need to band together as singular interests instead of ourselves is something that's always been beyond me.
    I don't come to you as a furry or a goth or a gamer or a koopaling fan. I come to you as a Vae. (Or a Jessica, depending on what medium of communication you know me in.)
    Just like I don't think of Rilvor as "the goth person" or Pachi as "the shmup person" or what have you.
    Just like I don't gravitate towards forums or spaces with one singular focus, most of the time. Sure, it's easier to find content you're interested in, but so is intelligent searching.

    I guess I just don't know why we need to reorganize the fandom, because I don't know why the fandom should be so important, to begin with.
    Distance yourself from it, and seek out people you wish to talk to. The state of the furry fandom shouldn't affect that, because you shouldn't limit yourself to associating from within it.
    Resident Koopa Trash

  2. #12
    Why do I get the sneaking suspicion redregon isn't talking to me, or even at me, but about me. Say what your problem is dude. Don't be a coward like Chase. At the very least have the stones to PM or something.

  3. #13
    Non-furry here, so maybe I can provide some outside perspective. (I usually just observe but I'll poke my head in on this one.)

    As far as I can tell, FurAffinity is not the furry fandom. It's just a site, a site run by humans with varying levels of interest, competence, and motivations. Sure, what one group does affects the reputation of the community that it is a part of, but FurAffinity is not the entirety of the furry community as a whole, even if FurAffinity is a huge chunk of it.

    In other words, I think people are overreacting just a little bit, but I absolutely do not blame them. I understand the psychology about why people are so upset over recent events. FA is where their friends are, and in some cases FA is where their livelihood is. A threat on either one of those triggers very strong emotions.

    To have a good team or a good community, you absolutely need good people. It's not even about good ideas. Good people will create good ideas and reject bad ones. To have a functional team you have to remove poisonous people, and the sooner the better. To have a good community I imagine you have to do the same. (This sentiment is based on my experience working with teams. Scaling up probably won't work the same, and certainly you can't kick out large swaths of people in an existing community. It'll seem like a hostile take over. Someone mentioned Burned Furs. I'm aware of what that was but only in the form of articles written about it. I imagine that's where Burned Furs got it wrong.)

    The impression I'm getting is that furries are concerned that good people don't want to touch the community with a 10-foot pole, and that good people leave the community because they can find more fulfilling friendships, creative opportunities, and a more acceptable signal-to-smut ratios elsewhere. This probably created a positive reinforcement loop which affects Group 3 the most, and will be very difficult or even impossible to reverse without completely starting over. It's a lot easier to mold a community from the beginning while it's still small. Sure you'll get drama from certain types of people not feeling like they are welcome, but it's a lot easier to create the community you want while it's still small and growing, and most importantly, never give up.

    - - - Updated - - -

    In short, I disagree with the title of the thread. I do think you need a new forum, a new site, and not a new fandom.

    When I was doing my research I was surprised at how big the furry fandom is. It's not a small community at all. It's broken up into many smaller communities, each with their own beliefs and their own unwritten rules of conduct of what is and isn't acceptable. The only way to cultivate a healthy community is to not make it a reaction to some other entity goofing up.

    Don't build the foundation for a better community based on anger and resentment, because the people you want to build and lead such a community won't be the angry ones.

    Okay, that's what I wanted to say. I'll disappear into the shadows now.

  4. #14
    Toshabi Pronouns Only Toshabi's Avatar

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    imho, it doesn't really matter what the fandoms are like, what does matter is who you choose to surround yourself with in whatever prospective fandom/subculture you're apart of. You choose how much you wish to be influenced by it. In the end, people will use the fandom for however they see fit and change accordingly. There really isn't much more to really add. I am hardly ever involved with much these days, aside for work, school and the occassionaly mindless post. What I do know is that my friends are somewhat consistant across the board of every fandom/community I've been apwrt of. The toxic is everywhere, but it's not as blown up as people seem to make it out to be (unless you're talking about League of Legends). You just have to choose to not let it bother you.


    It sort of reminds me of that one example of three blind men describing what they were holding onto. To one, it was a tree, to another a snake, to another (I forgot), but in reality, they had an elephant in front of them. You just choose what you want to make it out to be. It's a shody example on my end, but I don't believe fandoms to be that big of a deal, other than for the artist end of it all. But even then, we've the varying sites with different flavors to appeal to our individual needs.

  5. #15
    Dude. Dudette. Whatever you prefer. You don't get it. When I say we are a culture of assholes, I mean we are doing shit that is simply unacceptable to one another. I'm just as adamant about that here as I am in my own neighborhood, because whatever corner of the fandom I go, that is my neighborhood. What you saw and are continuing to see a lot of on FAF is the culmination of what amounts to a cyber societal collapse. Perhaps it's just reflecting a real one. And I'll level, that is really what I'm more worried about. One the one hand, I don't want that shit infecting what has historically been and I think really needs to continue to be a refuge from much of "the real world" as much as can be helped. And on the other hand I don't believe in linear approaches to things that complex. We need to save ourselves in a lot of ways, online and off is what I'm getting at. I think a lot more of these problems can be fixed just by people changing their attitude than just technology or more or less administrating. It's really the whole internet that's lost its purpose but we kinda are the internet, right?

    I got one guy starting a whole other thread frankly just to distract me, and he's asking if you think the fandom is fucked why don't you leave. My response to that is if it isn't valuable enough to you that you'd want it to do better for itself like you know it probably could then you have different motivations. Not necessarily worse ones just different enough that they probably are too tough to compare let alone debate anyway.

  6. #16
    Senior Rilvor's Avatar
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    Frankly in regards to furries specifically one does have to admit you're handling a group that is a little more prone to social faux pas then others. So to that end one needs to understand that there are a lot of fish in the sea, and you absolutely can decide which ones you want to throw back into the water. I've come to not mind furs these days because I surround myself with the ones that I find meet my social expectations at least halfway. The others I won't interact with or speak to, because they need to understand in a gentle way that I don't like them.

    But this is something that takes social skills, I suppose. Perhaps part of the problem some folks have is that they aren't capable of socially pushing away those they don't find acceptable. If you can do that, these people eventually get pushed out of a community. If not, then you at least realize you've come to the wrong place and it is you who is the unacceptable one.

    But truth be told what Vae said rings the most true. These sorts of things should only be one facet of something multi-faceted.

  7. #17
    Toshabi Pronouns Only Toshabi's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf-Bone View Post
    Dude. Dudette. Whatever you prefer. You don't get it. When I say we are a culture of assholes, I mean we are doing shit that is simply unacceptable to one another. I'm just as adamant about that here as I am in my own neighborhood, because whatever corner of the fandom I go, that is my neighborhood. What you saw and are continuing to see a lot of on FAF is the culmination of what amounts to a cyber societal collapse. Perhaps it's just reflecting a real one. And I'll level, that is really what I'm more worried about. One the one hand, I don't want that shit infecting what has historically been and I think really needs to continue to be a refuge from much of "the real world" as much as can be helped. And on the other hand I don't believe in linear approaches to things that complex. We need to save ourselves in a lot of ways, online and off is what I'm getting at. I think a lot more of these problems can be fixed just by people changing their attitude than just technology or more or less administrating. It's really the whole internet that's lost its purpose but we kinda are the internet, right?

    I got one guy starting a whole other thread frankly just to distract me, and he's asking if you think the fandom is fucked why don't you leave. My response to that is if it isn't valuable enough to you that you'd want it to do better for itself like you know it probably could then you have different motivations. Not necessarily worse ones just different enough that they probably are too tough to compare let alone debate anyway.


    If you want my thoughts on it all, it has to do with the foundation that was laid before hand. Furaffinity has always had this mire-complex about it that slowly grew and grew from neglect from the mainsite staff. It became a HUB for drama of the sorts, and that sort of environment attracts a certain crowd of people. When you leave shit on the floor, the flies will come. FA has a lot of that laying about the premise. FAF "collapsed" simply because the mainsite staff don't have their act together.

    As for "We're a culture of assholes", I still believe that's, more or less, a result of environment. Weasyl isn't exactly perfect, but the mood of the forums are night and day when compared to one another.

    If you choose to be a positive influence in an environment that's hostile and destined to be hostile (faf), then that's your own prerogative. I, personally, am not really one for inspiring/encouraging reform in places that really don't need it/are worth the time. Furry is broad and general. There are hundreds of communities to associate yourself to (I have several I'm apart of). There is the occasional drama, but nothing has ever surfaced in my search that was comparable to what FAF is. That's not a unique case, persay, just rare. That just jumps back to my point about the mismanagement/neglect of the community leaders of FA.

    Lastly, Crocpronouns only. Dudecroc works too.
    Last edited by Toshabi; 08-29-2015 at 04:00 AM.

  8. #18
    Senior Viciviser's Avatar
    Weasyl
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    Okay, okay this has been a bit to absorb for me simply because I dip into the furry fandom often but not very deep. I hear all over Weasyl that there's shit going on over at FAF but I left that place around 2 years ago and have not bothered to poke my head back in, especially since it's apparently worse than it used to be.

    My stance is similar to Vae's in many ways. However I can get what you're saying to some degree in the aspect of the community/neighborhood should treat each other with respect. I'm always going to back such sentiments because any group of people should keep their shit together and have guidelines for common decency.

    Let alone, furs expanding the internet nodes and branching out seems like a good idea. Although it would be tough to say the best way to bring that about.

    I will say I won't mourn FA or FAF should they crumble. Things change. I move on easily. But as for the fandom I do feel some kinship and it does bother me that people are hurting over this.

    There are aspects of the fandom I still don't understand, especially a point you made by saying-
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf-Bone View Post
    Look man, the kind of shit you see in the fandom now, where an entire community can pretty much be centered around a single person or a handful of people
    I've not been fond of this aspect. The mindless followers and strange undying loyalty and devotion to someone considered popular or in good standing regardless of whether they are a good person or a good leader. You see it in any community of course, but there is... something specific in the furry community involving this. It's one of the reasons I keep happily to the fringes. My only advice there is there's no point in dealing with a flock of gibbering fans, ever. It is best to group with the thinkers and forge your own path, which it seems you are making an attempt to do.

    I'm sorry I do not have suggestions yet, but much of what you have said is good food for thought and I'm more or less thinking out loud. If I come up with anything useful I'll let you know.

  9. #19
    Senior Rilvor's Avatar
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    I dunno, considering the slavering mass that follows Oprah I'd say what goes on with Furries is small beans.

  10.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #20
    Retired Staff Frank LeRenard's Avatar
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    I'm just going to point this out, and you can do with it what you will, but every culture and subculture throughout humanity and throughout history ends up or has ended up with cults of personality, internal drama, and political bickering, from biker gangs to astrophysicists. I think it's just a human thing, or maybe on a more base level, a primate thing.

    When a group gets big enough, it also gets diluted and veers toward the mean. It's where the phrase 'I was into [X] before it was cool' comes from. Maybe it's just that the furry fandom has officially reached that stage. And if that is the case, you may not be able to solve this problem for the whole fandom.

 

 

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