Page 4 of 34 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 333
  1. #31
    Junior DragonFlayer's Avatar
    Weasyl
    DragonFlayer
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Venezuela
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by Fiz View Post
    "Tag what you know" is something we would rather people be doing rather than "tag what you see". A unicorn with it's horn obscured in an image doesn't mean it's not a unicorn, etc.

    I think our biggest issue with trying to implement an approval system is what happens to tag change requests that go to accounts that are no longer active? Without other checks in place, those tag edits would just stay in limbo forever and the submissions would still (possibly) be inaccurately tagged so people wouldn't be able to find or block it properly.

    There'd have to be a part of that system that would still make it work in those sort of circumstances. The idea I just thought of was that after a certain amount of time (lets say for example, 72 hours), if those tag edit requests are neither accepted or denied, the tags still go into effect but possibly under a different category from 'community tags' on the submission, just to show that it is a community tag but it isn't approved yet.
    That sounds alright, but still, what if the (active in this case) artist doesn't want a certain tag in their work? what if the tag is accurate, but the artist really dislikes the tag? What if the tag is hurtful, offensive, distasteful or anything else for the artist? And yet it is an accurate and valid tag, what then?
    Last edited by DragonFlayer; 08-17-2015 at 07:31 AM.

  2. #32
    I really like the tagging system; the intent of it as a search feature is very cool. However, I no longer add community tags to any works because nearly every single artist whose work I have tagged has complained about it, threatened to leave the site over the system, or has personally asked me not to do so, and most of those tags get removed, even as I tried to become more restrictive and selective about the tags I added. Even synonyms, pluralizations, or corrected spellings of existing tags are removed and sometimes trigger the artist to request no further tagging.

    In a perfect world, this system would probably be ideal, but it's frustrating to me in its current implementation because I, apparently, cannot reasonably use it, as its very existence in turn frustrates most artists. While I got the impression the lack of an opt-out to community tagging was an effort to encourage adoption of the community tagging system, all I've encountered while attempting to use it are frustrated artists who would rather have complete control over the tags on their work.

    Furthermore, you can see very divisive opinions even within this thread over the difference between 'tag-what-you-see' (which is an appropriate and powerful strategy for getting images to the widest available appropriate audience, but will not always be accurate to artist intent) and 'tag-what-you-know' (which is generally considered more respectful to the artist, but is often completely useless as an image searching/sorting/blocking tool, as the artist will likely already have provided as much description as they intend to the artist tags). While I, as an artist, don't mind people reinterpreting my works however they wish, because that's a thing that happens to art (and in this case, crass porn), I do understand the desire many artists have to retain control over the presentation of their work. For many artists, for this to feel like a curated gallery of their work, they feel they should have absolute control over the tags, even if, in some cases, this makes their images virtually invisible to the search tool.

    I've puzzled over these problems several times now. Either I lack the insight or intelligence to provide the perfect compromise, or maybe it doesn't exist. It honestly feels like having broad standardized category tags like DeviantArt or FurAffinity (or, indeed, many imageboards) do would at least make search tools on the site more functional, given that as it stands many artists do not take the time to do much with the tagging system and apparently want as little as possible to do with it, often leaving images with NO functionally-searchable tags relevant to their content. Additionally, an opt-out system may be preferable, although my opinion is still divided there; if an artist is determined to remove all the tags added to their work, or will otherwise leave the site, then the only way to satisfy that subset of users is to allow an opt-out of the community tagging system. However, that does once again leave the issue of rendering vestigial a useful content sorting system that otherwise seems to be seeing a fair bit of resistance but which could be wonderful if widely adopted.

    For my own part, I don't mind the community tagging system. I personally quite like it, haven't had any problems yet with abuse, and I don't feel the need to aggressively police my image tags. I, for whatever strange personal reason, would like people to see the dumb crap I doodle, and unless a piece is commissioned work of someone else's personal character, I don't think it would be possible to much bother me with bad tags the way some other artists have been ruffled. Perhaps each image could be opted out of the community tagging system upon upload? That's a feature I might legitimately use to distinguish between work of other folks' personal characters, where I could see them taking offense at poorly-moderated image tags, and my own personal work, where I'm not really likely to care about inaccuracies so much and would be happy leaving them open to community tagging.

    In the meantime, however, I have been aggressively encouraged away from tagging the uploads of others, and the bizarre cultural nuances of the entire situation give me a headache, so it is not a system I feel I CAN reasonably use.

  3. #33
    Junior DragonFlayer's Avatar
    Weasyl
    DragonFlayer
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Venezuela
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    11
    How about this, Add an opt-out setting, if you opt-out from community tagging, the piece won't be searchable, I would prefer people be unable to search my stuff entirely if it means they won't touch my tags

    So no oversensitive searchers need to get eye bleach and no artists flip out over people tagging their stuff with whatever. Sounds like a pretty good compromise

    It takes a big chunk of entitlement to feel one holds power over the content created by someone else, specially when such content is not intended nor directed for you in any way

  4.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #34
    Sentimental Machine Fiz's Avatar

    Weasyl
    Fiz
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    1,476
    Quote Originally Posted by DragonFlayer View Post
    That sounds alright, but still, what if the (active in this case) artist doesn't want a certain tag in their work? what if the tag is accurate, but the artist really dislikes the tag? What if the tag is hurtful, offensive, distasteful or anything else for the artist? And yet it is an accurate and valid tag, what then?
    I'll be honest and say I don't know because I really cannot think of an example of this actually happening.

    The only sort of example I could think of is people not wanting tags like herm on their art. But that goes in line with 'tag what you know' as well. If the submission of said character, which may seem like it would be tagged a "herm", but the artist says it is not a herm, then that tag wouldn't be accurate since it is now knowledge that the character is not a herm.

    That said for general "offensive" terms, another idea I had thought of was having a sort of 'semi-banned' tag list. As in, Weasyl has a set of tags that may be considered offensive to others that only the submitter can add as a tag. These tags would not be allowed to be added by the community.

    A side idea I had of this was having users have the ability to pre-emptively disallow certain tags, in the chance that said example I mentioned came up, but we would have to figure out the details of a system like this to keep it from being abused in such a way that users would just dump massive tag lists in to basically block all community tagging that way, rather than pre-emptively blocking certain tags on certain submissions that they know for certain they don't want.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonFlayer View Post
    How about this, Add an opt-out setting, if you opt-out from community tagging, the piece won't be searchable, I would prefer people be unable to search my stuff entirely if it means they won't touch my tags

    So no oversensitive searchers need to get eye bleach and no artists flip out over people tagging their stuff with whatever. Sounds like a pretty good compromise

    It takes a big chunk of entitlement to feel one holds power over the content created by someone else, specially when such content is not intended nor directed for you in any way
    I think this idea was tossed around in our staff channels before but personally, I have no problem with such an implementation.

    Don't want the community to add tags to a piece? Fine, but that means that said piece cannot be found via search or browsing, so that the issue with someone unable to blacklist said piece doesn't come up because said piece isn't even going to appear during search.

  5. #35
    Junior DragonFlayer's Avatar
    Weasyl
    DragonFlayer
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Venezuela
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by Fiz View Post
    I'll be honest and say I don't know because I really cannot think of an example of this actually happening.

    The only sort of example I could think of is people not wanting tags like herm on their art. But that goes in line with 'tag what you know' as well. If the submission of said character, which may seem like it would be tagged a "herm", but the artist says it is not a herm, then that tag wouldn't be accurate since it is now knowledge that the character is not a herm.

    That said for general "offensive" terms, another idea I had thought of was having a sort of 'semi-banned' tag list. As in, Weasyl has a set of tags that may be considered offensive to others that only the submitter can add as a tag. These tags would not be allowed to be added by the community.

    A side idea I had of this was having users have the ability to pre-emptively disallow certain tags, in the chance that said example I mentioned came up, but we would have to figure out the details of a system like this to keep it from being abused in such a way that users would just dump massive tag lists in to basically block all community tagging that way, rather than pre-emptively blocking certain tags on certain submissions that they know for certain they don't want.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I think this idea was tossed around in our staff channels before but personally, I have no problem with such an implementation.

    Don't want the community to add tags to a piece? Fine, but that means that said piece cannot be found via search or browsing, so that the issue with someone unable to blacklist said piece doesn't come up because said piece isn't even going to appear during search.
    The Opt-out setting as defined above would be the best, perhaps on a per-submission implementation rather than gallery-wide, perhaps people who don't care could even get a setting to show everything in browsing/searching, even submissions with disabled community tags

    Looking at submissions with community tags disabled would require direct browsing or linking of that artist's gallery/submission, if you are using the blacklist system, if you aren't using the blacklist system, everything shows up in searches/browsing, community tags enabled or not, how does that sound?

  6.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #36
    Sentimental Machine Fiz's Avatar

    Weasyl
    Fiz
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    1,476
    Quote Originally Posted by DragonFlayer View Post
    The Opt-out setting as defined above would be the best, perhaps on a per-submission implementation rather than gallery-wide, perhaps people who don't care could even get a setting to show everything in browsing/searching, even submissions with disabled community tags

    Looking at submissions with community tags disabled would require direct browsing or linking of that artist's gallery/submission, if you are using the blacklist system, if you aren't using the blacklist system, everything shows up in searches/browsing, community tags enabled or not, how does that sound?
    Not a particular fan of the separate option because, if I'm reading your post correctly, those submissions would still end up getting in the way of other peoples blacklisting, just because the submitter doesn't personally use the blacklist system (which a lot of people don't seem to know exists, so this would be a major problem). If I'm reading wrong though, please correct me.

    That said if it was an opt-out I'd much rather it be opt-out per submission.

    I'd also like there to be away to blacklist via username without having to use the ignore/block system to do so, so if you know someone draws things you never want to see, or you know they're a poor tagger, then you can just blacklist entirely like that.

  7. #37
    Junior DragonFlayer's Avatar
    Weasyl
    DragonFlayer
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Venezuela
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by Fiz View Post
    Not a particular fan of the separate option because, if I'm reading your post correctly, those submissions would still end up getting in the way of other peoples blacklisting, just because the submitter doesn't personally use the blacklist system (which a lot of people don't seem to know exists, so this would be a major problem). If I'm reading wrong though, please correct me.

    That said if it was an opt-out I'd much rather it be opt-out per submission.

    I'd also like there to be away to blacklist via username without having to use the ignore/block system to do so, so if you know someone draws things you never want to see, or you know they're a poor tagger, then you can just blacklist entirely like that.
    username blacklisting sounds good

    Let me clarify what I said

    Submitter Opts-Out of Community Tagging

    User using Blacklist won't see Submitter's opted-out submission in Browsing/Searching, only direct linking would allow a blacklisted work to be seen by the user.

    User not using Blacklist will see everything in Browsing/Searching, even submissions with Community Tagging disabled by Submitter.

    Idea for Direct Linking of Blacklisted Submissions:
    User gets a Warning Prompt telling them why the submission is in their blacklist, be it tags or username, before redirecting straight into submission after they consent to press an 'agree/accept/ok' button.

    Alternate Idea for Hiding Blacklisted Content:
    The content still shows up in Browsing/Searching but shows a 'WARNING' Thumbnail displaying the matching blacklist tag/username instead of the submission's original thumbnail.
    Last edited by DragonFlayer; 08-17-2015 at 09:00 AM.

  8.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #38
    feline fine Noxid's Avatar
    Weasyl
    Noxid
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    CANADURR
    Posts
    475
    Quote Originally Posted by Swanda View Post
    - Tags should be separated differently, no really get rid of the _ and allow me to copy paste a full sting please?
    Doing the:
    This is a tag, this is a different tag, three tag here,
    Appears to be pretty universal and make people less frustrated.
    Regarding this, I actually can't think of any site that lets you tag this way?
    FA separates by spaces
    DA and Tumblr use twitter-style hashtags (they either use underscores or mash both words together, depending on whatever someone feels like doing)
    e621 uses underscores and I'm *pretty* sure soFurry and inkbunny follow suit

  9. #39
    Junior DragonFlayer's Avatar
    Weasyl
    DragonFlayer
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Venezuela
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by Noxid View Post
    Regarding this, I actually can't think of any site that lets you tag this way?
    FA separates by spaces
    DA and Tumblr use twitter-style hashtags (they either use underscores or mash both words together, depending on whatever someone feels like doing)
    e621 uses underscores and I'm *pretty* sure soFurry and inkbunny follow suit
    Nope, in SoFurry, you type tags between comas and if the that is like
    "This is a Tag, This is another Tag" then it is 2 tags
    This is probably the best way to do it, everyone hates the hell out of underscores

  10.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #40
    feline fine Noxid's Avatar
    Weasyl
    Noxid
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    CANADURR
    Posts
    475
    Quote Originally Posted by DragonFlayer View Post
    Nope, in SoFurry, you type tags between comas and if the that is like
    "This is a Tag, This is another Tag" then it is 2 tags
    This is probably the best way to do it, everyone hates the hell out of underscores
    well at this point it seems to be the odd man out so i'm not entirely sure that really is the choice that would benefit the most people
    Last edited by Noxid; 08-17-2015 at 10:55 AM.

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •