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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by weykent View Post
    Remember that tags are for filtering out as well as for finding submissions. Just to confirm: you think that, if a submitter doesn't want to allow more than two tags, that nobody should be able to filter out those submissions without having to filter out everything posted by that submitter?
    No, I simply believe that content creators ought to retain control over the tags in their work. Please do not put words in my mouth.

  2.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Eskiworks View Post
    No, I simply believe that content creators ought to retain control over the tags in their work. Please do not put words in my mouth.
    Apologies; I'm not trying to put words in anybody's mouth. The question I asked was not specifically answered, so I tried to infer an answer from what you've said. Could you please explain, then, what other recourse the community should have in such a situation?

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by weykent View Post
    Apologies; I'm not trying to put words in anybody's mouth. The question I asked was not specifically answered, so I tried to infer an answer from what you've said. Could you please explain, then, what other recourse the community should have in such a situation?
    I'm sorry, I answered your question to the best of my abilities. If it doesn't make sense I'm not sure how to clarify further.

  4.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Eskiworks View Post
    I'm sorry, I answered your question to the best of my abilities. If it doesn't make sense I'm not sure how to clarify further.
    If a user very strongly does not want to view, say, nonconsensual situations depicted in art, a submitter posts more than a few submissions which do depict such situations which are not tagged as such, and the submitter refuses to add a tag to indicate that, what should a user be able to do other than block all submissions by that submitter?

  5. #25
    Junior DragonFlayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by weykent View Post
    Apologies; I'm not trying to put words in anybody's mouth. The question I asked was not specifically answered, so I tried to infer an answer from what you've said. Could you please explain, then, what other recourse the community should have in such a situation?
    Blacklisting by tags? It doesn't work, not even with the community tags, the community is always going to tag what they want to see, people is going to start fighting about "Intesex" this "Futa" that "Herm" this, it's just going to be the same kind of disrespectful pandemonium that is e261, sure, artists can just roll back these mindless taggers, but even they will get fed up with this

    So here's my neat blacklisting system, running on tags, I'm trying to block something very specific, but hey look, someone removed the tag about that very specific thing I didn't want to see on some piece because one community tagger feels that thing I didn't want to see doesn't belong to a piece that actually does contain that which I didn't want to see

    Just stick with ratings, don't want to see weird stuff? ignore weird stuff, it's the internet, even Google sucks at hiding that which you don't want to see

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by weykent View Post
    If a user very strongly does not want to view, say, nonconsensual situations depicted in art, a submitter posts more than a few submissions which do depict such situations which are not tagged as such, and the submitter refuses to add a tag to indicate that, what should a user be able to do other than block all submissions by that submitter?
    Again, it's not ideal, but yes. That is precisely what we do on other sites when content creators make things we don't want to see. It does sorta suck, but I still feel it's more important that content creators retain control of their work.

    I really do understand why you want to keep the public tagging system in place, it's a cool idea! And as is, it's not horrible by any stretch of the imagination of course. However, I still think creators deserve control over their content, and the best way with the current system is by adding an accept/deny system. Especially since right now there's nothing stopping artists from simply removing all outside tags to circumvent the community tagging system entirely.

    I'm not going to leave the site if you folks chose not to implement an accept/deny system, but I have also said about all I have to say to support my suggestion. Looking forward to reading further feedback, and continuing my use of this site!

  7. #27
    I see that some people are leaning towards "Tag what you see", but that method comes with its own set of problems. Seriously, what is the harm with "tag what you know"? "Tag what you know" not only answers questions created by things that aren't seen (such as confirming whether or not a character facing away is male or female) but it accurately categorizes characters based on what they are, and not what is seen. I've been in situations where my characters are tagged wildly incorrectly just because someone has an...interest... for whatever they tag them as, and because something like the character's chest isn't shown, people get into a fit and claim I have no right as a creator to define my own content.

    I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've been left wondering if a character is simply male or female because "ambiguous gender/sex" replaces what the artist and owner of the character knows. Just let artists keep their own tags because they know what content is there behind the scenes. What's the worst that could happen? You search for "female" but the character is facing away, and since you can't see any defining features, you're suddenly upset?

    Art shouldn't be limited to just the content. There are artists, owners and creators behind what we post. Treating the content as if it's just there for our viewing pleasure, and not sharing our creations and characters to discuss and talk about is just plain silly. It almost reminds me of people who repost art without credit saying "I don't see what's wrong with sharing ^-^", guess what, you're cutting out part of the art when you disconnect character owners and artists from their creation. I noticed that some people say that the submissions description can allow a tag to be considered "correct" if the character, in the submission's description, is described as intersex, a certain species, or whatever. Why is the description considered a pre-requisite for earning the right to define what we make? I could just copy and paste my tags into the description every time I post something if that's the case.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qualzar View Post
    I see that some people are leaning towards "Tag what you see", but that method comes with its own set of problems. Seriously, what is the harm with "tag what you know"? "Tag what you know" not only answers questions created by things that aren't seen (such as confirming whether or not a character facing away is male or female) but it accurately categorizes characters based on what they are, and not what is seen. I've been in situations where my characters are tagged wildly incorrectly just because someone has an...interest... for whatever they tag them as, and because something like the character's chest isn't shown, people get into a fit and claim I have no right as a creator to define my own content.

    I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've been left wondering if a character is simply male or female because "ambiguous gender/sex" replaces what the artist and owner of the character knows. Just let artists keep their own tags because they know what content is there behind the scenes. What's the worst that could happen? You search for "female" but the character is facing away, and since you can't see any defining features, you're suddenly upset?

    Art shouldn't be limited to just the content. There are artists, owners and creators behind what we post. Treating the content as if it's just there for our viewing pleasure, and not sharing our creations and characters to discuss and talk about is just plain silly. It almost reminds me of people who repost art without credit saying "I don't see what's wrong with sharing ^-^", guess what, you're cutting out part of the art when you disconnect character owners and artists from their creation. I noticed that some people say that the submissions description can allow a tag to be considered "correct" if the character, in the submission's description, is described as intersex, a certain species, or whatever. Why is the description considered a pre-requisite for earning the right to define what we make? I could just copy and paste my tags into the description every time I post something if that's the case.
    This, exactly this, this is the whole thing, couldn't have said it better myself

  9.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #29
    Sentimental Machine Fiz's Avatar

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    "Tag what you know" is something we would rather people be doing rather than "tag what you see". A unicorn with it's horn obscured in an image doesn't mean it's not a unicorn, etc.

    I think our biggest issue with trying to implement an approval system is what happens to tag change requests that go to accounts that are no longer active? Without other checks in place, those tag edits would just stay in limbo forever and the submissions would still (possibly) be inaccurately tagged so people wouldn't be able to find or block it properly.

    There'd have to be a part of that system that would still make it work in those sort of circumstances. The idea I just thought of was that after a certain amount of time (lets say for example, 72 hours), if those tag edit requests are neither accepted or denied, the tags still go into effect but possibly under a different category from 'community tags' on the submission, just to show that it is a community tag but it isn't approved yet.

  10. #30
    Senior Kurk2288's Avatar
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    I'm in the same boat as Noxid,
    When I had a decent sized black-list, I was still seeing content I didn't want to come across. Even when using multiple tags for the same subject. Some of the artists I've PMed about tagging were- let's just say upset? Which I don't understand, when some of the tags I've suggested were completely harmless or inoffensive (blacklisting was also never mentioned). It also puzzles me when tags are indeed relevant or appropriate, and it's an issue for some personal reason?

    For example,
    Some one submits My Little Pony fan art, and the only tags are horse, equine and pony.
    I then add the "MLP" & "My little pony" tags to it, OR ask them to tag their future content with it. However they take issue with it for some reason...

    What's more annoying is when someone suggests you black-list content you don't actually mind viewing, or tags that are broad and ambiguous. Eventually I gave up on tagging, turned my content ratings down to moderate, stopped browsing and stuck with searches.

    Just to be clear,
    I'm a non-fur, not familiar with the whole "futa" vs "trans" drama and also have no problem coming across content I'm not looking for. The black-list is just a nice feature to help filter out things I'm not interested in.

    Lets also not pretend as if every one who submits content are perfect little angels because I've had my fair share of reporting. Honestly, Why not a trust based system? Give taggers the option to earn a trusted status for having a record of tagging things appropriately, reporting and deleting bad tags. Give Artists the option to disable tags from general users, but trusted taggers can still provide input. (I'm on the fence about artists having complete control over tags)
    Last edited by Kurk2288; 08-17-2015 at 06:55 AM.

 

 

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