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  1.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #201
    Retired Staff piñardilla's Avatar

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    Alright, so here's a thought: Long ago, we had a program granting a sort of half-mod status for users called Ferrets. We could possibly bring back this program for the purpose of policing community tags, if it will make the idea less contentious.

    An idea of how I see this possibly working, just as an example: Community tags are invisible until approved by a Ferret, who have a FIFO tag queue (possible prioritization could be given to a specific subset of "problem" tags, or tags added by multiple users). Content owners don't receive a tag notification until Ferret approval, and unapproved tags are tossed unnoticed by anyone, and possibly reported for administrative action if they are abusive in nature.
         
       
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  2. #202
    Regular Bornes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oly View Post

    It's not a case of 'we don't want your kind here.' It's a case of 'pick the tool that works for the job you need to do.' If Weasyl doesn't meet your needs as a tool, then you shouldn't try to force it any more than you should try to force the wrong type of screwdriver to work when you need to take a screw out... except that this 'screwdriver' is actually asking for feedback to see if it can adapt to meet your needs, feedback which you have given, and which has been engaged! So I'm not sure why you feel the need to act like anybody is trying to shut anybody else up.
    Thank you, that is worded a lot better than what I have been saying. But it is what I mean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by piñardilla View Post
    Alright, so here's a thought: Long ago, we had a program granting a sort of half-mod status for users called Ferrets. We could possibly bring back this program for the purpose of policing community tags, if it will make the idea less contentious.

    An idea of how I see this possibly working, just as an example: Community tags are invisible until approved by a Ferret, who have a FIFO tag queue (possible prioritization could be given to a specific subset of "problem" tags, or tags added by multiple users). Content owners don't receive a tag notification until Ferret approval, and unapproved tags are tossed unnoticed by anyone, and possibly reported for administrative action if they are abusive in nature.
    What happens when a CC doesn't agree with a ferret's approval?

  3. #203
    Regular blufawx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by piñardilla View Post
    Alright, so here's a thought: Long ago, we had a program granting a sort of half-mod status for users called Ferrets. We could possibly bring back this program for the purpose of policing community tags, if it will make the idea less contentious.

    An idea of how I see this possibly working, just as an example: Community tags are invisible until approved by a Ferret, who have a FIFO tag queue (possible prioritization could be given to a specific subset of "problem" tags, or tags added by multiple users). Content owners don't receive a tag notification until Ferret approval, and unapproved tags are tossed unnoticed by anyone, and possibly reported for administrative action if they are abusive in nature.
    Why approved by the "Ferret" ?

    You're removing the choice of whether to approve it from the CC and putting to a middle man, thereby giving the CC no power whatsoever.

  4.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #204
    Retired Staff piñardilla's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bornes View Post
    What happens when a CC doesn't agree with a ferret's approval?
    This is all still hypothetical so what happens from there is still up in the air, but I'd imagine the submission owner gets an approve/reject prompt with the notification. If they click approve, it becomes an owner tag. If they reject, the tag gets removed but the Ferret gets a notification. Ferrets might then elevate the issue to the mod team, though we'd instruct them to give artists as much leeway as possible and to reserve that for stuff like scat porn that the owner refuses to let be tagged "scat" and such.
         
       
    Now,
              let's go play, together...
       
    Together under the
                     clearest of
    blue skies.

  5. #205
    Regular Bornes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by piñardilla View Post
    This is all still hypothetical so what happens from there is still up in the air, but I'd imagine the submission owner gets an approve/reject prompt with the notification. If they click approve, it becomes an owner tag. If they reject, the tag gets removed but the Ferret gets a notification. Ferrets might then elevate the issue to the mod team, though we'd instruct them to give artists as much leeway as possible and to reserve that for stuff like scat porn that the owner refuses to let be tagged "scat" and such.
    I feel like that just adds a completely unnecessary middle step.

    You could just allow CCs to approve/disapprove all tags, and any disapproved tag might be checked by a Ferret at that point (if you wanted ferrets again)

    Or you could allow the CCs to have that whole "don't tag with these following tags" at submission type deal. That was an idea I really liked. Then no need for approval/disapproval afterward-- CCs made their decision at submission.

    Give only ferrets tag rights and nobody else, then either have CCs deal with their choices or have a reporting/escalation process if CCs disapprove of a ferret/tag.

    All seem to be less roundabout ways of tagging.

  6. #206
    Senior DrunkCat's Avatar
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    The more that gets posted the more I feel there should just be a community tag set fed by suggestion pools and those that are selected enough times become actual community tags. Just go for it, try it for a couple a months and go from there.

  7. #207
    Regular Bornes's Avatar
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    Oh that sounds cool. I like that.

    edit: As long as there is some type of flood protection. So one account requesting the same tag on same submission 3 times only counts as one suggestion.

    Also maybe an account activity or age minimum to suggest a tag

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Bornes View Post
    But if Weasyl wants to attract new users, it needs to do so in a way that it attracts the type of users that will want to use the site in the way that Weasyl has intended. It has clearly failed in that regard.

    Anyway I feel kind of bad about this whole thing because you are a really nice person and you kind of got caught up in all this not even knowing what you got into. And that's Weasyl's fault, I think, for not making it very clear what the site stands for and what it wants.
    Thank you - and I think that's what I was getting at, too, yes. There's a problem of people coming in (or just looking in, even) with expectations and impressions that don't match what Weasyl was built to be for a long time now. Re: tagging and other things, too. It's true there's a fair bit I don't mesh with currently, either, but what's kept me around (aside from the people I follow) is knowing that while my input may not always lead to what I hope it does, it's acknowledged in a way I can see. If tags remain unpalatable for me in the end... I tried. I was heard when I tried, and for that it all... bites less.

    I don't feel like I'm being chased out. I'm just going to have to weigh whether I'd prefer being a watcher over an artist for a while.... I apologize for not being able to offer much of an idea for compromise all this while, honestly, since I'm interested in what may come out of all of this.

  9. #209
    Senior DrunkCat's Avatar
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    That's honestly a great response, especially:

    Quote Originally Posted by ganache View Post
    I don't feel like I'm being chased out. I'm just going to have to weigh whether I'd prefer being a watcher over an artist for a while.... I apologize for not being able to offer much of an idea for compromise all this while, honestly, since I'm interested in what may come out of all of this.
    Because no one is asking for anything more than that.
    "To tell us that every species of thing is endowed with an occult specific quality by which it acts and produces manifest effects, is to tell us nothing; but to derive two or three general principles of motion from phenomena, and afterwards to tell us how the properties and actions of all corporeal things follow from those manifest principles, would be a very great step." -Issac Newton, Optics
    "You are what you do not do." - Relax

  10. #210
    Junior arinaca's Avatar
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    I'm not sure why it hasn't already been implemented that the CC gets to control what tags are added to their work to be honest - it seems like the most logical thing. If there was an issue, say, a bad tag getting added there should be an option to report it (Approve Tag, Deny Tag, Report tag) for anyone trying to abuse the system. I suppose Ferrets could be brought back as mediators between someone really determined to add a tag that gets denied/reported etc. Then everyone can still tag if they choose to, but in the end the person doing the content gets to choose what best represents it. I think if people had the ability to control what happens to their work in terms of tagging are less likely to remove themselves completely, either via leaving, or opting out and being unsearchable if that's brought in.

    I'm all for community tagging, I think it's a great idea especially because sometimes I just don't know what to type. I don't think my work has ever had tags added though (Do you even get a notification at the moment?) so maybe people feel like it's imposing on artists and aren't tagging even if they know a tag they could add?

 

 

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