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  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by weykent View Post
    Just trying to understand your motivation here: while having suffered no abuse yourself, you're concerned about the potential for abuse? What kind of abuse are you anticipating that could be solved by having to approve all tag edits?
    My only motivation is to provide the feedback asked for here. The sort of abuse I have suffered so far (I said very little, not none), is receiving inappropriate tags for a submission, and letting that be attached to the submission until I have time/internet access to remove the tag. Experiencing a low volume of abusive tags doesn't preclude me from suggesting solutions, I hope. With the proposed solution of an approval/denial system before an outside tag is added to a submission, we can avoid abuse before it can be committed in the first place, and put the control back in the hands of the artists! Win/win if you ask me. Less work for mods, and more control for artists!

  2. #12
    Regular Bornes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irbisgreif View Post
    If we're going to have useful tags, we need the community and consistent tagging standards. This means that we're going to have to go for a 'tag what you see' approach with standardized tags. This is just one of those things where a site can't give the artists 'whatever they want'. If we do that, we're just going to have tags become a useless mess as each artist will use their own opinion (rather than a community developed standard) to tag their work.

    As for some of the cases people have brought up, such as trans* work being tagged with 'futa', that could be solved with aliases. Simply replace 'futa' or 'herm' or such with a reasonable aliased name, and when someone searches for an aliased tag, bring up all of the aliases.
    Personally, I agree with everything said here. I know a lot of artists aren't going to like it, but I think this would be best for the site and community as a whole.

    I also REALLY LIKE What Kimura suggested, where we get random artwork and get to tag them. I could spend hours doing that out of boredom. It would help the community as a whole and be seen as a way to pass time on the site.

  3.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Eskiworks View Post
    My only motivation is to provide the feedback asked for here. The sort of abuse I have suffered so far (I said very little, not none), is receiving inappropriate tags for a submission, and letting that be attached to the submission until I have time/internet access to remove the tag. Experiencing a low volume of abusive tags doesn't preclude me from suggesting solutions, I hope.
    No, definitely not trying to imply you can't provide feedback if you haven't suffered abuse. For the sake of discussion, could you elaborate more on what tags you felt were abusive, and why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eskiworks View Post
    With the proposed solution of an approval/denial system before an outside tag is added to a submission, we can avoid abuse before it can be committed in the first place, and put the control back in the hands of the artists! Win/win if you ask me. Less work for mods, and more control for artists!
    Sure, but artists and mods aren't the only users of the site. See Noxid's post; the ability to blacklist tags is important for people browsing the site as well, and is ineffective if there's no way for the greater community to add tags.

  4. #14
    Regular blufawx's Avatar
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    I barely use weasyl anymore. Heck, I use inkbunny more now than I use Weasyl. Why? Because of the tags. The annoying "_" to seperate words and the allowing other users to tag my works are the most prevelant to this thread (though forcing me to use .txt or .PDF comes to mind)

    There needs to be an opt in for artists, writers, and people posting commissions for allowing people to tag your work. If the "allow others to tag" isn't checked then they aren't allowed to tag.

    We need standard tags too

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by weykent View Post
    No, definitely not trying to imply you can't provide feedback if you haven't suffered abuse. For the sake of discussion, could you elaborate more on what tags you felt were abusive, and why?
    I honestly can't remember, like I said it's very little! That's why I prefaced my original comment by saying I'm overall pretty happy with the way the tagging system works. Delving into specifics of what little I have personally experienced isn't particularly relevant to my suggestions.


    Quote Originally Posted by weykent View Post
    Sure, but artists and mods aren't the only users of the site. See Noxid's post; the ability to blacklist tags is important for people browsing the site as well, and is ineffective if there's no way for the greater community to add tags.
    I can see that, sure! I guess my priority as a creator is control of my content, and a lot of other folks seem to have that priority as well. By allowing tags to come through and only policing them when they are abusive (irrelevant, offense, trolling, etc), it takes a little more control out of our hands. It tips the balance away from us slightly, which I can tell by some of the other comments makes some creators uncomfortable. It does require you to trust creators to tag their work appropriately, of course, rather than the community at large. Which we can do! I saw someone suggest more unified tagging guidelines, that would be a good addition to the approve/deny system for outside tags. That way perhaps you can trust us creators a little more, knowing there's some better guidelines for tags, and we can retain control of how our work is tagged.

  6. #16
    Junior DragonFlayer's Avatar
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    Community Tagging is just a mess, before long this place could just become another e261
    People just tag whatever they believe they see and disregard completely what the author of the piece intends to convey

    If Community Tagging is going to stay, at least make an Opt-Out option so people who don't want their stuff tagged by random people can keep their content only with their own tags

    So anyone who actually wants community tagging on their content can get it and anyone who wants their stuff left alone and not resort to blocking people who probably didn't mean harm when they tried tagging their content

    A good example of why community tagging sucks:
    A friend artist of mine stopped using Weasyl because he uploaded a piece with a rather flat chested and masculine female in a bathing suit, it was a clean piece and she had tagged the artwork with 'female', an Admin/Mod came and just blatantly edited the tags for 'male', just because he thought the character was male. The result? My artist friend found himself soft quitting Weasyl, he didn't delete his account, but he sure as hell won't be active anymore, it's bad enough that users get on to tag stuff however they want, but when Mods/Admins do it in such a forceful way, it's really discouraging

    It happened to me as well, over my tags not using "_" for multiple words, sorry, but I'm never, never, never going to tag my stuff like that, it's just disgusting

  7.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Eskiworks View Post
    I can see that, sure! I guess my priority as a creator is control of my content, and a lot of other folks seem to have that priority as well. By allowing tags to come through and only policing them when they are abusive (irrelevant, offense, trolling, etc), it takes a little more control out of our hands. It tips the balance away from us slightly, which I can tell by some of the other comments makes some creators uncomfortable. It does require you to trust creators to tag their work appropriately, of course, rather than the community at large. Which we can do! I saw someone suggest more unified tagging guidelines, that would be a good addition to the approve/deny system for outside tags. That way perhaps you can trust us creators a little more, knowing there's some better guidelines for tags, and we can retain control of how our work is tagged.
    Sure, I'm all for having unified tagging guidelines. I've been pushing it internally for a while, but nothing has coalesced there yet.

    One thing I've seen semi-recently on weasyl, though, is an artist who deletes all user-submitted tags, posted a journal saying "please don't tag my submissions", and never adds more than two tags (the absolute minimum) to a submission. What recourse does the community have in a situation like that?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pthnrgrrl View Post
    There needs to be an opt in for artists, writers, and people posting commissions for allowing people to tag your work. If the "allow others to tag" isn't checked then they aren't allowed to tag.
    Can you please explain why this should be the case?

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by weykent View Post
    Sure, I'm all for having unified tagging guidelines. I've been pushing it internally for a while, but nothing has coalesced there yet.

    One thing I've seen semi-recently on weasyl, though, is an artist who deletes all user-submitted tags, posted a journal saying "please don't tag my submissions", and never adds more than two tags (the absolute minimum) to a submission. What recourse does the community have in a situation like that?
    While that's far from ideal in a system in which tags get your art found, it's my opinion that it should be the creator's choice how to tag their work, not the community's. You of course want the site to be friendly to people browsing, but making it friendly for those adding the content being browsed ought to take priority.

  9. #19
    Junior DragonFlayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eskiworks View Post
    While that's far from ideal in a system in which tags get your art found, it's my opinion that it should be the creator's choice how to tag their work, not the community's. You of course want the site to be friendly to people browsing, but making it friendly for those adding the content being browsed ought to take priority.
    I agree with this, What's the point of a site about CONTENT in which the Content Creators just leave because the service doesn't care about what they want, if the priority is on the users just wanting to consume content 'efficiently' by taking away part of the tools from the hands of the content creators, you will just see a nice stream of these content makers leaving

  10.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Eskiworks View Post
    While that's far from ideal in a system in which tags get your art found, it's my opinion that it should be the creator's choice how to tag their work, not the community's. You of course want the site to be friendly to people browsing, but making it friendly for those adding the content being browsed ought to take priority.
    Remember that tags are for filtering out as well as for finding submissions. Just to confirm: you think that, if a submitter doesn't want to allow more than two tags, that nobody should be able to filter out those submissions without having to filter out everything posted by that submitter?

 

 

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