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  1.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #131
    feline fine Noxid's Avatar
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    I think the problem with the "tag what it is" approach you outlined is that one, it doesn't seem to reflect well the way people search (which is important for utility) and it seems to make the tagging process more complicated (which isn't good for artists because it's already hard enough to get them to add good tags)

    for example, if I wanted to search for only trans-male characters for some reason, I can't *just* rely on physical characteristics because it could vary - pre, post, no obvious secondary sex characteristics, etc. So this still relies on the submitter to provide or approve the key information, and at that point I don't think the system is much more effective than a "greylist" of sensitive tags proposed previously in the thread.
    And as well, like weykent mentioned, the "interactions" between groups is important too. I think a flat tagging scheme is easier for everyone to understand and use as long as the right terms are used to describe the content.
    Last edited by Noxid; 08-19-2015 at 08:34 AM.

  2. #132
    Regular blufawx's Avatar
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    Another idea being considered is not allowing anyone except the submitter and staff to add gender-related tags. How would you feel about that?
    I don't know that I'd feel comfortable with staff doing anything either, but it's a start on my end.

  3. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by weykent View Post


    Anything is possible, and that's even something that wouldn't be hard to implement, but I'm not a fan of hiding that kind of information from users entirely. https://forums.weasyl.com/vbulletin/...ll=1#post89318 is the most detailed explanation I gave of it, I think. You'd be okay with a tag like "vore" being used to find/filter your submissions iff it wasn't user-visible at all?
    It would make me more comfortable with the idea of non-me users being able to add tags, yeah! I like the idea of someone being able to tag-block something of mine they dislike, because I know that's helpful for a lot of people. I'm less of a fan of people being able to tag something of mine as Something That It's Not, especially if it came down to a fetish or idea or whatever that I personally find distasteful. Having a hidden tag would, I think, satisfy both of those ideas.

  4.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodhound View Post
    It would make me more comfortable with the idea of non-me users being able to add tags, yeah! I like the idea of someone being able to tag-block something of mine they dislike, because I know that's helpful for a lot of people. I'm less of a fan of people being able to tag something of mine as Something That It's Not, especially if it came down to a fetish or idea or whatever that I personally find distasteful. Having a hidden tag would, I think, satisfy both of those ideas.
    Just to be clear, my understanding of your post is that this theoretical piece is so questionable/borderline, that while you don't feel it's vore (or else you wouldn't have drawn it), someone else might. Is that correct?

  5.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #135
    Hi guys! Thanks for all the awesome responses!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodhound View Post
    It would make me more comfortable with the idea of non-me users being able to add tags, yeah! I like the idea of someone being able to tag-block something of mine they dislike, because I know that's helpful for a lot of people. I'm less of a fan of people being able to tag something of mine as Something That It's Not, especially if it came down to a fetish or idea or whatever that I personally find distasteful. Having a hidden tag would, I think, satisfy both of those ideas.
    I wanted to respond to this one and see if I can fill in a bit more information as well. I think one of the concerns Weykent has with totally hidden tags, is that user1 filters on that tag and is blocked from viewing, user2 doesn't filter on that tag and can view the submission fine. I think the part that's missing is User1 and User2 are friends. User2 links the piece to User1, who finds themselves blocked, but there's no way for either user to figure out why. That why is what should be satisfied.

    Right now, CC tags, staff added tags, and user added tags are in different colors, but grouped together. Personally I think at the very least, these should be separated visibly into their own sections on the submission. Clearly identified as "These are the tags the CC has listed, and should be taken as gospel" and "These are tags the community has suggested, and shouldn't carry as much weight." Possibly even have, as part of the suggested approval process, if a CC approves a tag, it gets promoted to their tag section.

    I have seen the argument that community tagging removes some control over the content from the CC. Would comments also count towards that lost control? And if so (and that's an acceptable loss), would classifying community added tags more with the "social weight" of comments help?

    Separately, I'm sure there's a discussion to be had on improving comments, including the ability to disable them on a submission. That's outside the scope of this particular thread, but something I'm sure we'll visit.

  6. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by weykent View Post
    Just to be clear, my understanding of your post is that this theoretical piece is so questionable/borderline, that while you don't feel it's vore (or else you wouldn't have drawn it), someone else might. Is that correct?
    Correct! Although you could swap 'vore' for several other things I, personally, may not be down with... but since this is the example we're going with, etc etc.

    If a CC is very uncomfortable with (fill in the blank) and don't want it attributed to their art, it would be very attractive to the CC to know that the (fill in the blank) tag is never going to be visible on their submission, even if someone's added it and someone's found that submission because of the tag. The comfort that comes with being able to separate or distance themselves/their content with (fill in the blank) would make CC's more accepting of community tagging, IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikani View Post
    Hi guys! Thanks for all the awesome responses!



    I wanted to respond to this one and see if I can fill in a bit more information as well. I think one of the concerns Weykent has with totally hidden tags, is that user1 filters on that tag and is blocked from viewing, user2 doesn't filter on that tag and can view the submission fine. I think the part that's missing is User1 and User2 are friends. User2 links the piece to User1, who finds themselves blocked, but there's no way for either user to figure out why. That why is what should be satisfied.

    Right now, CC tags, staff added tags, and user added tags are in different colors, but grouped together. Personally I think at the very least, these should be separated visibly into their own sections on the submission. Clearly identified as "These are the tags the CC has listed, and should be taken as gospel" and "These are tags the community has suggested, and shouldn't carry as much weight." Possibly even have, as part of the suggested approval process, if a CC approves a tag, it gets promoted to their tag section.

    I have seen the argument that community tagging removes some control over the content from the CC. Would comments also count towards that lost control? And if so (and that's an acceptable loss), would classifying community added tags more with the "social weight" of comments help?

    Separately, I'm sure there's a discussion to be had on improving comments, including the ability to disable them on a submission. That's outside the scope of this particular thread, but something I'm sure we'll visit.
    As per your first paragraph (I don't know how to chop up the quote to stick my replies in there XD), I think if User1 and User2 have some confusion over why one can see X but the other can't, it wouldn't take a whole lot of discussion to realize one has a tag on that submission blocked. It doesn't seem like it would cause any strife between User1 and User2, and if it was something that happened more than once, the assumption would gradually build (i.e. users would realize more quickly that 'oh, I must have a tag on that piece blocked').

    I am glad that the tags are already color-coded, because that helps distinguish right from the get-go that the CC is not necessarily saying their submission contains x, y or z.

    Could you explain more what your thought/question is about comments, and the tags having 'social weight' and etc?


    Also, I'm pleased that more people are using the CC thing instead of 'artist' now. I feel like such a trend-setter X) Unless someone used it in the thread before I did, then oops!

  7. #137
    Regular blufawx's Avatar
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    Would comments also count towards that lost control?
    The only way it's a loss of control is if I can't delete the comment if say it's hostile or trolling.

    Otherwise, I think comments are in a completely different category than tags.

  8. #138
    Senior Swanda's Avatar
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    Ikani - The big difference between comments and tags is that comments is a commentary on the submission, while tags are Defining the submission. There is a hella big difference between a personal statement of "I think this looks like X" and "This submission is now X"

  9. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodhound View Post
    Correct! Although you could swap 'vore' for several other things I, personally, may not be down with... but since this is the example we're going with, etc etc.

    If a CC is very uncomfortable with (fill in the blank) and don't want it attributed to their art, it would be very attractive to the CC to know that the (fill in the blank) tag is never going to be visible on their submission, even if someone's added it and someone's found that submission because of the tag. The comfort that comes with being able to separate or distance themselves/their content with (fill in the blank) would make CC's more accepting of community tagging, IMO.
    My concern with that is that now those hidden tags can more easily be used to sneakily troll the CC. If they block "weird_fetish" because they find it morally reprehensible (say, tagging back-alley sex stuff with rape even when the CC says that's not what's happening), and someone then goes through all their submissions and tags all their art with "weird_fetish" because they know the CC hates it then how will they know they're now being forcibly associated with something they disagree with?

  10. #140
    Regular blufawx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Socks the Fox View Post
    My concern with that is that now those hidden tags can more easily be used to sneakily troll the CC. If they block "weird_fetish" because they find it morally reprehensible (say, tagging back-alley sex stuff with rape even when the CC says that's not what's happening), and someone then goes through all their submissions and tags all their art with "weird_fetish" because they know the CC hates it then how will they know they're now being forcibly associated with something they disagree with?
    and now you see why I say there shouldn't be community tagging.

 

 

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