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  1.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #91
    I'd like to take a moment to speak in general to all readers of this thread, given the direction some of it has gone. Community tagging/tags used as metadata/not exclusive to the original poster is a dynamic that has been around since the very beginnings of Weasyl in 2012. We as a team have never tried to be secretive about the fact that we use it, or about how it works. We try, and have tried, to be as open about how it works as possible.

    We care about our community. If readers here have been unaware that community tagging exists and is a foundation of Weasyl, and searching, that is our own failing. That being said, if any user reading can think of ways that we can make 'the fact that this kind of tagging is used on our website' more visible than it is, we're more than happy to hear feedback about that.

    Over time we have made changes to how our tagging system works, including 'the ability to prevent any given user from tagging submissions', when it has been demonstrated in a moderators' report that they are tagging in bad faith, and 'sending notifications sent to a submitter whenever tags on their own works are changed'. Neither were possible on Weasyl before 2014. I have no doubt as time goes on that other changes to make the system more beneficial will be made. I can already say we've seen constructive feedback here that is being discussed.

    Any Weasyl user who wishes to delete their content based on the existence of community tagging will be missed by our community, and I don't say that sarcastically. As said above, any feedback that helps make more clear that the system is in use here, and how it works, is welcome. Weasyl's success is not based upon our userbase not understanding how the system works, but the complete opposite.
    Last edited by skylerbunny; 08-18-2015 at 01:20 PM. Reason: Text accidentally duplicated

  2.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Swanda View Post
    But that IS how it works now?
    The user not blocking will see submissions in the gallery overview that the person tag-blocking wouldn't.
    It is literally the exact same thing that is happening now, that would happen then.
    If the user then links one of the hidden submissions to the other, a warning will appear telling the submission is hidden from your view due to a tag they have blocked. I'm not sure how more user-visible the information could get than that warning page?
    Sure, iff the user blocking the tag was directly linked to the submission, there could be a warning page. Regarding visibility, what I mean is this:

    If:
    • User U1 is blocking tag T.
    • User U2 is not blocking tag T.
    • Submission S1 has tag T.
    • Submission S2 does not have tag T.


    Then:
    • U1 will not see S1.
    • U1 will see S2.
    • U2 will see S1 and S2.
    • If T is not a hidden tag, then U2 can look at S1 and S2 and see that one has T and one does not.
    • If T is a hidden tag on S1, then U2 can not look at S1 and S2 and see that one has T and one does not, because neither submission will appear to have T.


    As an aside, I had forgotten until writing this post just how truly obnoxious it is to format text with bbcode.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodhound View Post
    <snip>
    First, thank you for your post on the subject. I think you bring up some interesting points!

    Let me make a suggestion, because I wonder how you or other would feel. What if community-added tags weren't directly shown on the submission, but required some extra clicks to see? The submitter-chosen tags would still be shown on the submission directly, but now you're not directly associated with what else the community has chosen.

  3. #93
    Senior Swanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by weykent View Post
    Sure, iff the user blocking the tag was directly linked to the submission, there could be a warning page.
    There Is a warning page Now X)
    Seen it many times when opening all submissions in my inbox.
    I guess the blocked tag have been added After the submission prosses, and as such the thumb had already landed in my inbox.

    (just as a small side note)

  4.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Swanda View Post
    There Is a warning page Now X)
    Seen it many times when opening all submissions in my inbox.
    I guess the blocked tag have been added After the submission prosses, and as such the thumb had already landed in my inbox.

    (just as a small side note)
    This is the current behavior, yes. There are no hidden tags, so the current behavior in that situation is not defined. Does this make my objection more clear?

  5. #95
    Regular blufawx's Avatar
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    But, as an artist, I should have final say in how my art is presented on this site
    THIS a thousand times this. Even as a commissioner, it's MY art, MY character. not the character or art of anyone else.

    Let me make a suggestion, because I wonder how you or other would feel. What if community-added tags weren't directly shown on the submission, but required some extra clicks to see? The submitter-chosen tags would still be shown on the submission directly, but now you're not directly associated with what else the community has chosen.
    it shouldn't be there in the first place, the community tagging. That's the point. It gives too much power to non-CCs.

  6.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #96
    Quote Originally Posted by pthnrgrrl View Post
    THIS a thousand times this. Even as a commissioner, it's MY art, MY character. not the character or art of anyone else.

    it shouldn't be there in the first place, the community tagging. That's the point. It gives too much power to non-CCs.
    I thought you weren't going to reply to me.

    Anyway, I think we all understand now that your objection to community tagging is that you feel you don't have enough control. Feel free to reply if you have new content to add to the thread, or if you want to answer the questions you've been asked.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by weykent View Post
    This is the current behavior, yes. There are no hidden tags, so the current behavior in that situation is not defined. Does this make my objection more clear?
    The behaviour would be the same, since the Hidden tags would be treated the same by the blocking filter.
    The change i’m suggesting, would be that they aren't displayed to viewers, and would be ignored by the search function.
    My thought was; If a content creator approval of tags before adding would be put in place, even with an auto accept after x amount of time. It could take hours, days or even week before the tag were applied. This in turn would be a huge setback for the blocking funktion. So by treating unapproved tags as hidden, this would no longer be an issue.

    It could in addition be used by content creators to allow tags for the blocking system, they aren’t comfortable having their art associated with. Since it wouldn’t attract people from searches of said tag, nor be displayed with the tag.
    Last edited by Swanda; 08-18-2015 at 02:32 PM.

  8.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Swanda View Post
    The behaviour would be the same, since the Hidden tags would be treated the same by the blocking filter.
    The change i’m suggesting, would be that they aren't displayed to viewers, and would be ignored by the search function.
    My thought was; If a content creator approval of tags before adding would be put in place, even with an auto accept after x amount of time. It could take hours, days or even week before the tag were applied. This in turn would be a huge setback for the blocking funktion. So by treating unapproved tags as hidden, this would no longer be an issue.

    It could in addition be used by content creators to allow tags for the blocking system, they aren’t comfortable having their art associated with. Since it wouldn’t attract people from searches of said tag, nor be displayed with the tag.
    I think I understand what you're saying. My objection is that, since these hidden tags will not be shown to users, it's possible to have two submissions which appear identical in every way, except that one will be blocked and the other will not, if the submission has a hidden tag.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by weykent View Post
    Feel free to reply if you have new content to add to the thread, or if you want to answer the questions you've been asked.

    Ah, but i thought you weren't trying to silence anyone?

    Well, so much for that lie eh?

    I'm not the only one who thinks this, yet you're so fixated on me. Hmmm...I wonder why

  10. #100
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    After reading everything here, I think I'll offer my own two cents.

    I'm an artist who has generally has been very supportive of the current tag system on Weasyl, both as a way to find art and blacklist it, and I personally have not experienced any form of tag abuse on my work. Certainly it still needs a lot of work, as there have been many good points brought up about what problems could arise from community tagging, as well as potential solutions. I just wanna put my voice out there for the ideas that I thought sounded good!

    I'm on board with an idea like Webster's, where a system could mark responsible "trusted" taggers by their reputation of approved to rejected tags, and restrict those who may be a bit more irresponsible or malicious to always requiring their tags to be approved.

    For those artists worried about certain questionable terms being added to their own work (eg. futa, hermaphrodite), I think it's very important that there be a list of "questionable / restricted" tags that only submitters are allowed to add to their own work, if they are comfortable with using those terms to describe their work. I think this would likely help a lot with those artists who would rather avoid certain terms they consider inappropriate.

    I also agree with Fiz that it would likely help a lot that if a tag is added to a submission and it is removed, it wouldn't be allowed to be added again except by the uploader or a staff member.

    I also wouldn't mind a clearer divide between artist and community tags. While the colour difference is there currently to mark which types of tags there are, I feel like there is still a lot of worry that all the tags will be associated with the submitter's work and will, since they're all mixed together, resulting in an instance that Bloodhound outlined where a content creator may be mistaken for being open to creating certain content, when in reality they simply haven't gotten around to removing them, and would rather keep their distance. Having two separate categories entirely, with "Artist's/Submitter's Tags" on top and brightly coloured as they currently are, and "Community Tags" underneath and more muted would be ideal I think. I do like weykent's idea of possibly making community tags a bit hidden somehow, or at least giving the artist's given tags far more priority and visibility.


    Other than what's been mentioned, I think the following ideas are needed in order to improve the tagging system:

    • Blacklisting by username
    • Tag suggestions and tag completion to help encourage standard tagging and consistent spelling
    • Tag implication/relationships to reduce tagging clutter and eliminate the need to add redundant tags (and to improve blacklisting. If I blacklist "egg_laying", it should also blacklist "oviposition", and so on)
    • Options to include titles and/or descriptions in search results as well as tags. (As an option, please not automatic, because I've found it VERY annoying to try and search on DeviantART because of a single instance of a word in an otherwise completely unrelated description)
    • The option to go to an actual search page that can be clicked to, with the drop-down menus and checkboxes you get for more specific search help, rather than having to input something into the search bar first to get to that search page. Personal pet peeve, but I'd find it more helpful to be able to get to that page in the first place to set up my search properly the first time around! :c


    That's about all I have to say on the situation, and I just want to thank Weasyl staff for opening up discussion on how the tagging system could be improved!
    Last edited by Amber-Aria; 08-18-2015 at 03:08 PM.

 

 

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