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  1.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #221
    Sentimental Machine Fiz's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swanda View Post
    Aside from potential gibberish tags the only problem I see with this idea, is that it could be a blow to the block filtering. I don't think it'll be a huge issue, but the risk is there, so eh.
    It should not be a stand alone thing tho, this addition isn't enough in itself.
    It'd need to be a system used in congruent with other things, like I said with my post, for sure. On it's own it's likely not enough.

    Like I said, used together with a global-tag auto-reject list that would likely contain stuff like slurs/offensive terms, gendered terms etc, it'd massively cut down the chance of possible abusive tagging and misgendering tagging, as well as give users control on default if they already know some terms they don't want added.


    I'd also like blacklist by username (well by userid rather) for people who you know you don't want to see the art of for whatever reason, but don't want to put on your ignore list.

  2. #222
    Another thing I think would help is fixing a CC's reluctance to get staff involved. This isn't FA, people! The staff here actually answer reports! If you tag something "trans_female" and someone keeps adding the "male" tag even though you've explained it both in the description and to them individually, go right ahead and report them! The staff WILL say "hey stop that you're being a butt" and take action as needed. The report form gives you this nice big box where you can type all you want to your heart's content to explain why you don't want this tag, but even a quick one-liner "hey this person keeps tagging this male even though the character's trans and I've tagged it trans" would work.

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by armaina View Post
    I'm laffin cus I LITERALLY just made that same exact suggestion in the post before yours
    Hence my edit

  3.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #223
    Sentimental Machine Fiz's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Socks the Fox View Post
    Another thing I think would help is fixing a CC's reluctance to get staff involved. This isn't FA, people! The staff here actually answer reports! If you tag something "trans_female" and someone keeps adding the "male" tag even though you've explained it both in the description and to them individually, go right ahead and report them! The staff WILL say "hey stop that you're being a butt" and take action as needed. The report form gives you this nice big box where you can type all you want to your heart's content to explain why you don't want this tag, but even a quick one-liner "hey this person keeps tagging this male even though the character's trans and I've tagged it trans" would work.
    Agreeing with everything you said.

    We could use some tinkering to the report system. Just a general "report user" would work well for this I think.

  4. #224
    Senior DrunkCat's Avatar
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    Before I go on one final rant I just feel the need to emphasize the statistics reported by the admins about how tag abuse is nearly a non-existent issue. I still see folks use this as a scare tactic and it boggles my mind how it keeps coming up despite information to the contrary.
    --

    At any rate, being exasperated at the fact that opposition to community tagging amounts to culture shock (e.g. "Even if the tags are appropriate it's awful because it's not me doing it!") I'm going to just attempt to flesh out the tag suggestion set idea.

    Tags will be consolidated. It will just be "tags" for each piece. No "artists tags", "community tags" or "staff tags" distinctions.

    Each piece will have a section that will list out suggested tags for the piece. What feeds the suggestions can be open to debate but ideas include:
    • Tags previously used in artists other works
    • Derivative tags (e.g. cat == feline == kitten == cats == felis == ...)
    • 'Similiar' tags (e.g. cat == animal == pet == ...)


    The set itself can be a mixture of already established tags, suggested tags and maybe just random tags. (i.e. 3 established, 6 suggested, 1 random).

    Each regular user gets to select up to 3 tags. Artists (i.e. the content creator) can select an unlimited amount. CC can also be allowed free-form additions of tags (if said feature was disallowed to users).

    Each tag is weighted by selection. Users have a +1 weight and the CC a +100 weight. This could allow for an 'organic' ferret program where those users who have a lot of tag selections under their belt without incident can carry a +10 weight with their selections.

    The weights on tags can influence order of tags for a piece and also relevance to keywords when searching. Tags can be flagged or reported and users can be penalized by either reduced weight (if the weight numbers are different) or outright ban.

    --

    I think it's great that Weasyl is trying something 'radically' new. I feel that this feature is something that needs full support and can only work if done without hindrance. There are plenty of other websites that do it the "normal" way, so why force Weasyl to be another brick in the wall? What does it matter if a few artists drop out in the initial roll out of a feature; there are other sites that cause mass emigrations every full moon yet are still going strong. Who knows, maybe something like this will allow for more diversity into the site.

    All I know is that it's silly to judge Weasyl against websites that you don't even like to begin with. There's opportunity here to experiment and I think it'd be great to seize it in full.
    "To tell us that every species of thing is endowed with an occult specific quality by which it acts and produces manifest effects, is to tell us nothing; but to derive two or three general principles of motion from phenomena, and afterwards to tell us how the properties and actions of all corporeal things follow from those manifest principles, would be a very great step." -Issac Newton, Optics
    "You are what you do not do." - Relax

  5. #225
    Regular blufawx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swanda View Post
    I honestly donít know how to explain this to you if you donít understand by now, despite so many people trying to make it crystal clear. I guess the most boiled down to the point I can get it is that art is a personal experience.
    And quite a few artists see their art some something very personal, even if it's just a simple pin up. Having someone else barge in and actively redefining your art is super invasive at best. Even if the art was only searchable by said tag for a few hours, it can still feel very violating to some.
    At this point all I can say is that you donít need to understand it to respect it.
    And the long and short of it is that other people's ability to find CCís art should not outweigh CCís comfort. If it does you will keep seeing people leave over it.
    This is what I've been saying...just not as articulate.

    Sometimes a CC don't want their art tagged as, let's say, ďAnusĒ simply because they felt like adding a * as a minor non focus point detail. And that is okay.

    ďAnusĒ isnít a gender tag, so no help for CC to remove it there.

    It's not a Synonym either, so no help for CC to remove it there.

    It is an Accurate tag in this case, just highly unimportant. Yet a voting by the community would most likely deem it accurate and the tag would get locked onto CCís art.
    Tough luck I guess.

    Itís not really a word CC dislike either, so it wasnít added to a ďDo not add to this submission, list. Itís just very redundant and an eyesore, and maybe they would rather not have people finding this submission through searches for ďAnusĒ as well.

    Tough luck tho, it is now force locked onto their submission by the community.
    The only option now is to report the tag and waste staff's time with it.
    However; staff would most likely not removed it for CC, since it's not offensive nor inaccurate, and they donít appear to care to understand CCís feelings on the matter either.

    And quite honestly most CCís have WAY better things to do with their life than wait on replies from staff over tag removals, that should never, ever have been locked in the first place. You know things like watching paint dry, or grass grow.

    In all seriousness if you started locking tags on submissions by default in any way, I would for the first time consider leaving. Iíve always been kinda unhappy with the community tagging, but I also recognize the value of it. I also feel it could become a Really good thing for the site in the long run and with the right improvements. Removing CCís ability to remove tags is not one of the right ones.
    This is hilarious. You're saying everything I've been saying. I've just kept it simple as the viewer gets more power than the CC. I'd pull a Kayne and say Weasyl hates CCs but that's just silly.

    Tag approval by CC - With the option to turn it off.
    again, I've been saying community tagging should be opt-out at this point. It should have been opt-in from the beginning, but apparently weasyl doesn't like CCs having control over their art.

  6. #226
    Senior Swanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pthnrgrrl View Post
    This is what I've been saying...just not as articulate.

    This is hilarious. You're saying everything I've been saying. I've just kept it simple as the viewer gets more power than the CC. I'd pull a Kayne and say Weasyl hates CCs but that's just silly.

    again, I've been saying community tagging should be opt-out at this point. It should have been opt-in from the beginning, but apparently weasyl doesn't like CCs having control over their art.
    Well I have said that I understand where you're coming from, the thing that didn't agree with me was the very aggressive attitude.

    I have however also understood and accepted the fact that staff isn't going to remove the community tagging, nor allow a complete opt-out. In fact the opt-out sits bad with me at this point since I use the tag blocking and I'm very happy that it is a thing! I am now trying to help figure out a way for the community tagging to be improved so it will make as many people feel comfortable and happy with it as possible.

    So yeah, I think you misunderstood the last quote; "Tag approval by CC - With the option to turn it off."
    It's meant as a system to allow CC's to approve tags before they are added. And the option to turn this system off, meaning all tags would be auto accepted. Since some people really don't care and prompts to accept/Decline tags would be more of an annoyance for them.

    But how would you feel about this suggestion I posed before?

    And a last random thought:
    Maybe allow CC’s to pick between a few options of:
    - Only add block-fliter tags please.
    - Tag away.
    - Wreck me! (tag what you see I don’t care)
    Either on all submissions by default or per submission, and then have a visual representation of CC’s choice at the tags.
    So that with the "Only add block-fliter tags please." people would know only to suggest "invisible tags" for block filtering.
    With the Invisible tags not being immediately visible on your submission, nor would your submission appear in searches for said tag. It would Only be picked up by the block filtering.

    I know it’s not entirely what you are hoping for, but this way you would at least retain as much power over your tags as possible, without disregarding the people who want to block things they aren't comfortable watching.
    Last edited by Swanda; 08-21-2015 at 02:24 PM.

  7. #227
    Regular blufawx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swanda View Post
    But how would you feel about this suggestion I posed before?



    So that with the "Only add block-fliter tags please." people would know only to suggest "invisible tags" for block filtering.
    With the Invisible tags not being immediately visible on your submission, nor would your submission appear in searches for said tag. It would Only be picked up by the block filtering.

    I know it’s not entirely what you are hoping for, but this way you would at least retain as much power over your tags as possible, without disregarding the people who want to block things they aren't comfortable watching.
    I'm really not okay with it.

    but

    I guess it's as good as it'd get without completely deleting my weasyl account and never coming to this site again.

    Edit: oh, wait. i can't do that. because weasyl doesn't have a disable or delete account feature that even FA has. yet they have this STUPID feature.
    Last edited by blufawx; 08-21-2015 at 02:32 PM.

  8. #228
    I'll go ahead and share my input about this.

    I will say first that I do see how this can be culture shock to some people. A lot of people from my impression jumped ship to Weasyl in hope that it will be better than the other art sites that have constantly let them down. But Weasyl is not a carbon copy of those sites. They are trying something different and are open to feedback and I appreciate how open the staff are with this. They want to improve their site and make it user friendly for all CCs and viewers. They want to make this work.

    However, I also understand the concerns that CCs do have with community tagging. It does feel like it gives more power to the viewers to be able to tag what they think they see. But art is subjective and personal to many, if not all. So it does seem invasive to tag content as one thing when the CC did not intend for it to be that. However, that can be remedied by having CCs approve of the tags that are appropriate for their work. And when you deny a tag, it should not be added to the submission again unless a mod intervenes. That can be handy because for me personally I have no idea what tags to use that will give me the most exposure. So a little help from the community can be beneficial if you're looking to get your work out there.

    It can be easy to disable community tagging altogether but then it gets a little complicated. Blacklisting and trigger warnings. Some people may feel that it's unnecessary and people need to suck up and deal with what they see online but that's an insensitive way to look at it. We have become more aware about these things and how people are greatly affected by what triggers them. And people are taking the extra step further to make certain people can safely search for artwork without being triggered or uncomfortable with certain content. It's not being overly sensitive or politically correct; it's being considerate of others who struggle to deal with traumatic events. Hidden tags that are picked up only for blacklisting purposes does seem plausible but I can also see how it takes away from the CC's power. It is a hard thing to balance out.

    But by the end of the day you can't please everybody. There is no one perfect site for everybody to go to. It is ultimately up to the majority of the community to come to an agreement on what will work. Communication is extremely important in figuring out what is good and what isn't. You have to make do with what's given to you.

    So for me, I'm all for an approval process for community tags. Giving me the option to approve of what tags are suggested for my work is great for me. It will also help with weeding out the potentially abusive and inappropriate tags. If the CC can catch them during the approval process then it evens out. You can then also disable the approval process so the tags are auto accepted if that's your preference too. If it can work then I'm okay with hidden tags exclusively for blacklisting purposes.

    EDIT: Another thing I forgot to bring up that I'm okay with are banned tags. Having a list of inappropriate and offensive tags not to use is also beneficial.
    Last edited by CosmicRose; 08-21-2015 at 04:59 PM.

  9. #229
    Each tag is weighted by selection. Users have a +1 weight and the CC a +100 weight. This could allow for an 'organic' ferret program where those users who have a lot of tag selections under their belt without incident can carry a +10 weight with their selections.

    The weights on tags can influence order of tags for a piece and also relevance to keywords when searching. Tags can be flagged or reported and users can be penalized by either reduced weight (if the weight numbers are different) or outright ban.
    I don't see the sense in this.
    Sega does what Nintendon't.

  10.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #230
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueJaySF View Post
    I don't see the sense in this.
    Perhaps you could elaborate on what you think the problem is.

 

 

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