Community Tagging Overview

[blufawx]

Then as I said, violate me until my page can't be used since I can't delete it.

Weasyl does nothing for me but cause headaches at this point anyway, thanks to the horrendously stupid idea of community tagging.

but until then, what I said in my post is what I'm going to do.

[Swanda]

Going in circles for 30 pages isn't solving anything.

Let me just remind you that pthnrgrrl have not been entirely against playing ball here, it’s just that the whole lot of you have ignored it and are pretending that they aren’t.

I'm really not okay with it.

but

I guess it's as good as it'd get without completely deleting my weasyl account and never coming to this site again.

It might not be what they Really want, but it is a compromise that they can to some extent live with.

[Taw]

Then as I said, violate me until my page can't be used since I can't delete it.

Weasyl does nothing for me but cause headaches at this point anyway, thanks to the horrendously stupid idea of community tagging.

but until then, what I said in my post is what I'm going to do.

I'm going to be extremely blunt here because this is like the tenth post you've made like this.

Telling us how stupid you think the idea of the system is solves nothing.
Telling us you are going to break current site rules because you don't like the system solves nothing.
These sorts of posts solve nothing, nor do they offer any useful feedback or critique.

If you want to be helpful, please offer a solution to the problem instead, and not ones we've already gone over and said we aren't going to do and given reasons why (refer to my first post in this thread if you need to).

I've been extremely lenient on this thread in regards to the forum rules at this point. These posts are considered low content posts.

8. Do not spam or post low content.

• Include content in your posts that is humorous, informative, or insightful. Do not post for the sake of posting or increasing your post count.

[blufawx]

I have offered solutions. As Swanda pointed out, you and your staff have chosen to ignore it.

And honestly? threats mean nothing to me, Taw. I've already said go ahead and violate me until I can't use the site. Of course, I could hypothetically be back under a different name that for all you know is already registered.

If opt-out as a whole isn't a solution, then give CCs more control over what tags can and not be added. Allow CCs to blacklist tags or users from tagging. Or allow them to opt-out on a submission by submission basis.

otherwise, the only person running around is circles is you and your staff as we users seemed to have handled this compromise thing pretty well.

[Taw]

I have offered solutions. As Swanda pointed out, you and your staff have chosen to ignore it.

And honestly? threats mean nothing to me, Taw. I've already said go ahead and violate me until I can't use the site. Of course, I could hypothetically be back under a different name that for all you know is already registered.

If opt-out as a whole isn't a solution, then give CCs more control over what tags can and not be added. Allow CCs to blacklist tags or users from tagging. Or allow them to opt-out on a submission by submission basis.

otherwise, the only person running around is circles is you and your staff as we users seemed to have handled this compromise thing pretty well.

I was referring to posts that had nothing of value to add to the thread in them. I've seen other ones that were on topic. This current post is a good example of what we're looking for though!

Regardless, back on topic:

A tag blacklist that submitters could set up is an idea I've seen mentioned. It's a potential solution, yes.

I could see a tag blacklist working per user if it notified the user when the tag was added, and they had to approve/deny/report it. That could potentially work along with Fiz's solution two pages back or so.

User blacklisting for tagging their submissions essentially would just be using the block function at this point however, so it'd be almost redundant unfortunately.

I don't think opt-out on a submission basis would do anything however, as it'd basically be the opt-out feature, just more annoying to use for every submission (instead of all at once, it'd be doing it manually for each one, etc).

I do believe paired with other prior suggestions I listed, the tag blacklist could potentially work. I know we had talks of a global tag blacklist that only submitters could add to their works as a solution too at some point.

[blufawx]

I don't think opt-out on a submission basis would do anything however, as it'd basically be the opt-out feature, just more annoying to use for every submission (instead of all at once, it'd be doing it manually for each one, etc).
.

Are you really thinking on it? or are you just giving an automatic no because you don't want to expend the time and energy?

You wanted compromise, i gave mine and now you're choosing to just wipe it away and act like it's not even option. Which means I go right back to calling the idea of community tagging stupid and doing what I've been doing.

Which means we're right back at square one.

An opt-in system should have been there from the beginning, a common mistake sites make. Since it's not there, the other option should be some kind of opt-in system.

[Taw]

Are you really thinking on it? or are you just giving an automatic no because you don't want to expend the time and energy?

You wanted compromise, i gave mine and now you're choosing to just wipe it away and act like it's not even option. Which means I go right back to calling the idea of community tagging stupid and doing what I've been doing.

Which means we're right back at square one.

An opt-in system should have been there from the beginning, a common mistake sites make. Since it's not there, the other option should be some kind of opt-in system.

I literally just gave you a complete run down of your first two suggestions and why I think they could potentially work with other ones that were suggested. I turned down a single one of the three, and explained why. This was not an automatic no. I explained that I believe it would just be used the same as if it was a complete opt-out and people would use it for every single submission, therefore being the same as the opt-out we already said we didn't want.

I've emphasized my post more clearly.

A tag blacklist that submitters could set up is an idea I've seen mentioned. It's a potential solution, yes.

I could see a tag blacklist working per user if it notified the user when the tag was added, and they had to approve/deny/report it. That could potentially work along with Fiz's solution two pages back or so.

User blacklisting for tagging their submissions essentially would just be using the block function at this point however, so it'd be almost redundant unfortunately.

I don't think opt-out on a submission basis would do anything however, as it'd basically be the opt-out feature, just more annoying to use for every submission (instead of all at once, it'd be doing it manually for each one, etc).

I do believe paired with other prior suggestions I listed, the tag blacklist could potentially work. I know we had talks of a global tag blacklist that only submitters could add to their works as a solution too at some point.

[piñardilla]

To put some things into perspective, one of the biggest complaints we've always heard at Weasyl is that artists don't get enough commissions and watchers through us. Everything that makes Weasyl less useful to people looking for art exacerbates this problem, and ultimately diminishes the value for artists to come to Weasyl as well. We would like to find solutions that have the lowest impact on this problem possible.

We can have a Ferret check that there is in fact an anus before an "anus" tag has any effect. We can keep the "anus" tag from showing up on the page at all. But an attitude of "nobody who would search for 'anus' should be allowed to see any of my art" isn't conducive to an art community gallery, and I am sort of left wondering why someone would bother drawing an anus at all if that's how they felt. If all that results from an upgrade to the tag system is that people are filtering out more things they don't want to see, but still can't find the things they do want to see, then the system is still a failure.

[Fiz]

I've mentioned this to staff before but I'll mentiong it here as well for clarifications sake.

While having Ferrets be involved with community tagging in some way is a great idea, I don't think we have the resources to do that right now, both technical and educational. I'd love for it to be an option in the future but right now I'm not thinking it's an option we can count on to help with this tagging "crisis", for lack of better words.

[Swanda]

@piñardilla

Let me remind you that people are already avoiding Weasyl over this as is, and removing More control from CC’s is Not going to improve it.
If the fear is that CC’s art wont get enough exposure from the lack of proper tags, and CC then ends up leaving, the right action still isn’t to remove their control. It is to Inform them about the importance of tags on Weasyl, teach them how to better tag their stuff, and improve the search function. Not to actively drive them away.
If CC still refuse community suggested search tags, that is ultimately Their choice, and their responsibility. Removing their power and telling them it’s for their own good is not how to go about it.

This is my stand on the problem you’re posing.^^^^

You should equip CC’s with the right knowledge and tools for them to tag better and be more open to the idea about Community tags. Not strip them of power and argue it's for their sake. (because it’s really not.) Try and have some faith in the CC part of your userbase and not just those tagging?

One of the most common things I’ve seen around in journals when it comes to CC issues with the community tagging, is that they want to be Asked before a tag is added. The auto tag adding is invasive at best. An “A user have suggest “X” tag on your submission “Name” - Accept/Decline/Hide - ^[Report]" prompt would remove many people's problem with the status quo I think. Since it is basicly asking CC in the place of the Tagger.

Removing CC’s ability to control community tags on their own submission is the DIRECT opposite direction of this. And no amount of visual segregation of CC, Admin and Community tags would make it less invasive nor acceptable.
Add onto this that Anyone can now add any tags, and it will be CCs job to contact an Adult staff member about it, to hear if their opinion on their own art is valid or not...
Which a loss to CC based on replies from pretty much all staff in here, as requests would be rejected unless the tag is outright abusive or not in context with the submission. Again completely disregarding the comfort of CC.
On top of that:

Quite honestly most CC’s have WAY better things to do with their life than wait on replies from staff over tag removals, that should never, ever have been locked in the first place. You know things like watching paint dry, or grass grow.

And let's just be real about the:
“one of the biggest complaints we've always heard at Weasyl is that artists don't get enough commissions and watchers through us”
It’s not just a tagging issue, it's also very much a user consistency issue. How are anyone going to gain watchers and commissions here, when the majority of the “users” are only active once some other site fuckes up again. Or just outright leave completely after a few months of using the site, because of a myriad of reasons, one of which is the invasiveness of the Tagging system.

You want to get CC’s found easier? Teach the the value of tagging, give them better tools to do so, and give them a level of options for the community tagging that would leave most feeling safe and comfortable.

Want to give CC’s a better market for commissions? Make a better commission system than any of the other sites. Doing commission journals are fine, but there are WAY better things that could be implemented to give CC’s more visibility on this front.

Want more people coming to the site to get commission? Above point will also help here!
And you could still make this site more attractive for these people in other ways.
Improving the collections would be very well received I believe. Maybe make an options to tag regular submissions as “made for me” allowing them to be shown along with teh collections? idk. Allow for favourites, characters and collections to be sorted into folders.
Improve character pages to also work as a folder/gallery for all art the User have posted or collected of the character. Make them feel like they are important and valued in the community. DO NOT remove CC’s power over tags and hand it to others in the name of “Well watchers needs are the most important, and eeeh I guess it helps the artist too! YEAH!”