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  1.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #141
    Quote Originally Posted by pthnrgrrl View Post
    The only way it's a loss of control is if I can't delete the comment if say it's hostile or trolling.

    Otherwise, I think comments are in a completely different category than tags.
    What do you perceive the difference between the two to be? You can already remove tags, and in either case you get a notification.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Socks the Fox View Post
    My concern with that is that now those hidden tags can more easily be used to sneakily troll the CC. If they block "weird_fetish" because they find it morally reprehensible (say, tagging back-alley sex stuff with rape even when the CC says that's not what's happening), and someone then goes through all their submissions and tags all their art with "weird_fetish" because they know the CC hates it then how will they know they're now being forcibly associated with something they disagree with?
    I'm not particularly concerned with this sort of thing, because once caught, it's trivial to reverse. It's a very rare occurrence anyway.

  2. #142
    Senior Swanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by weykent View Post
    What do you perceive the difference between the two to be? You can already remove tags, and in either case you get a notification.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swanda View Post
    Ikani - The big difference between comments and tags is that comments is a commentary on the submission, while tags are Defining the submission. There is a hella big difference between a personal statement of "I think this looks like X" and "This submission is now X"
    I'm not really understanding how this is a hard thing to understand?
    People are not as upset about people calling something X as they are about getting their submission redefined as X without their consent.

  3.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Swanda View Post
    I'm not really understanding how this is a hard thing to understand?
    People are not as upset about people calling something X as they are about getting their submission redefined as X without their consent.
    I was hoping for the perspective of someone else in particular.

  4. #144
    Regular blufawx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by weykent View Post
    What do you perceive the difference between the two to be? You can already remove tags, and in either case you get a notification
    One gives power to people that didn't create the content and can't, nor should be, reading the CC's mind to know what to tag it. Community tagging gives power to people that have no business having that power while diminishing the importance of the CC.

    Comments are commentary, unimportant things that generally mean nothing beyond a person seeing the art, saying they like it or dislike it or calling your mother fat.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Socks the Fox View Post
    My concern with that is that now those hidden tags can more easily be used to sneakily troll the CC. If they block "weird_fetish" because they find it morally reprehensible (say, tagging back-alley sex stuff with rape even when the CC says that's not what's happening), and someone then goes through all their submissions and tags all their art with "weird_fetish" because they know the CC hates it then how will they know they're now being forcibly associated with something they disagree with?
    They would know because they would still be receiving notifications that 'so-and-so added the tag xyz' to their submission. The CC would still have the option to delete it, and it had remained hidden before that, so that should make them feel safer

  6. #146
    Ah, I guess I missed that part.

  7. #147
    Premium User Oly's Avatar
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    I seriously fail to see how people being able to tag stuff or even suggest tags for stuff is the creator ceding power. It doesn't change what's there. It doesn't change what the creator says or doesn't say about it.

    Yes there's a potential for trolling if tags don't need to be approved first, and we've seen that it's barely been exploited and the staff are on top of it. And the submitter still has power because it's still their submission. There ALWAYS a potential for trolling, everywhere, all the time. I don't see how this is exceptional.

    And anyway, I agree that there shouldn't be a difference between creators and consumers. I've never thought so. I'm both and I encourage everyone to be both. Meh.

    NOW ALL THAT SAID: I like the tagging like it is but I'm not invested in it staying just like it is. There's been some really sick ideas in this thread and I think the best one stands out for me as being able to set tagging to friends only. So regardless of my thoughts I do hope we can see some solid progress here soon!

  8. #148
    So, having read through this thread, and being a user who left because of community tagging and having my previous work tagged with a LOT of things I don't agree with (I seriously had 3 images that weren't actually general rated (I rated other images higher since they were for a comic project and the project as a whole is not general), and two of those were the only ones that had any changes, even when the third was basically the same type of pin-up as one of the others) and not being able to see who I should block pissing me off... I have a few things to say on the matter.

    First: I prefer the LiveJournal/Dreamwidth (and a few other sites) version of tagging, with tags separated not with spaces, but with commas. (So: tag 1, tag 2, tag 3, etc). This is what I have found working best. I tag MORE when I can just hit a single key, be it a comma or return/tab, but I have the ability to tag multiple words in a single tag. And I generally don't tag if it's anything more complex than that.

    Most of my tags on my Tumblr? Placed on mobile client, despite my previously awful wi-fi connection, because I just hit return.

    Also, on LJ/DW, I can just copy/paste a string of tags, which was useful when I was posting my novel's chapters. And tag suggestions area thing there as well, though this is only based off what I've previously used, or what the community allows if I'm posting to a community and they have restricted tags.

    I can even copy/paste strings of tag on the SL Marketplace, as well as the PrimBay site.

    Furiffic and SoFurry both have suggested tags that pop up when I start typing. I honestly like Furiffic's tagging system, as it has not only system tags (such as for species), but there's also an area where you can add up to 20 user defined tags. Tags can be multiple words, separated by spaces, but are entered with the Tab key.

    One of my issues with the current tagging system, beyond feeling like I'm losing creative control, is that the search/blacklist system is apparently so broken that is doesn't understand partial words. When I search for "cat," any result that contains the word "cat" or has "cat" in the supplied tags (and it should extend to the description/title as well, though I see that was already touched on) should be returned by any decent search engine. If I want to search for small or cute horse art, but not MLP, I should be able to put in something like "pony -my -little."

    These are basic things I've been doing for years with web searches, so why isn't it being used?

    Is your search/blacklist system so broken that someone felt the need to tag an erotic image with "porn," "porno," and "pornography" when "porn" should have been enough? Same with it getting tagged "erotic" and "erotica." Again, this relates to the "cat" above.

    Sure, if I search for "cat" and results returned are including things that are tagged with "World of Warcraft: Cataclysm", those aren't -related-, but it means that the search is at least doing it's job, because cat.

    On that same image, which was rated as 18+, this person tagged it "nsfw" and "explicit." ... Duh? It's rated 18+, with the Weaysl definition for such images because it wasn't violent or gory. Additional tags on that image were: "anus," "breasts," "masturbation," "naked," "nude," "pussy," "smut," and "vagina." ONE of those tags (the masturbation tag) would have been welcomed, as I forgot to add it when I was uploading older art. Nothing else was necessary. The one other that could have been added, and wasn't? Something like "mare" as the character was a female horse.

    I discovered that soon after seeing a thread with a site staff member who has been repeatedly responding in this thread use the smallest amount of PR I have seen outside of a corporation of scam furry artist responding to people who were concerned about a user abusing their community tagging privileges. (By the looks of things, that staff member's PR skills are still lacking... Arguing with users, even the abrasive ones? Really?)

    Between that and there being a useless "History" link under the tags, and having NEVER gotten any kind of notification about these tags having been added... (So if there was, it's a more recent feature than those tags going onto that image, which I don't even know when that was because the History link was broken for it) I pulled my work and decided to just stick with FA until it finally sinks. I even made use of my ancient InkBunny account, which should say something about how frustrated it made me when you look at the types of content still allowed there.

    I sent an email to the general staff email, and it took sending a poke over Twitter to get any kind of response. (I've come to expect that of FA, but really guys?) So I'm saying a lot of the same things in this post.

    I like the idea of "If you disable community tagging, your art doesn't show up in search/browsing by users who have things blacklisted." That's fine. The old art I had posted I wasn't as concerned with people finding (and the picture that received all the tags was about 4 years old, posted mainly for historic purposes), but my webcomic? Yeah, I'd like to have more exposure on it, so sure, I'll tag it. Old drawing of my character sitting on a character from an anime I watched at that time, not concerned. But just because her butt was fairly large in that picture, I don't want fetishy tags on it (hypothetical situation, as far as I know anyway).

    Would I possibly lose exposure for the lack of wanting my old Gundam Wing fan art tagged by the community? Maybe. But if that's what is going to draw someone in, then I have a lot of bad news for them...

    I like the idea of "tag what you KNOW" instead of "tag what you see." If you see a commissioned piece on someone's gallery, and you know, from the creator, the character is, say, a vampire, then sure, put that into the suggestion box. But if you see a character with long canine teeth, you shouldn't go "vampire" and add that if you don't know. If you don't know a character's gender with 100% certainty, then it shouldn't be added.

    Overall: I stand by the thought that if you want community tagging on what is first and foremost a site for artists (and writers, crafters, and the like), then it needs to be approved by those content creators. You can't compare a gallery like this to a sharing site like e621, it's apples and oranges.

    There, I'm done. Enjoy my fibro-fogged brain tl;dring all over this thread.

  9.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #149
    Quote Originally Posted by snowhawk View Post
    On that same image, which was rated as 18+, this person tagged it "nsfw" and "explicit." ... Duh? It's rated 18+, with the Weaysl definition for such images because it wasn't violent or gory. Additional tags on that image were: "anus," "breasts," "masturbation," "naked," "nude," "pussy," "smut," and "vagina." ONE of those tags (the masturbation tag) would have been welcomed, as I forgot to add it when I was uploading older art. Nothing else was necessary. The one other that could have been added, and wasn't? Something like "mare" as the character was a female horse.
    Without having seen the submission in question, can you explain why you felt that e.g. "anus", "breasts", "vagina" were inappropriate? Were these not visible in the submission? (Remember that the "female" tag can't necessarily imply any of these other tags.)

    Quote Originally Posted by snowhawk View Post
    Between that and there being a useless "History" link under the tags, and having NEVER gotten any kind of notification about these tags having been added... (So if there was, it's a more recent feature than those tags going onto that image, which I don't even know when that was because the History link was broken for it)
    Tag history started being recorded around February 2014, and submissions posted before then won't have any history of modifications before then listed. Modifications since then, even on old submissions, would be listed. It was at the same time (i.e. February 2014) that tag modification notifications started being sent out.

  10. #150
    Premium User taasla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pthnrgrrl View Post
    Ah, but i thought you weren't trying to silence anyone?

    Well, so much for that lie eh?

    I'm not the only one who thinks this, yet you're so fixated on me. Hmmm...I wonder why
    Wow a+ pr response by the staff. So really this thread is less about giving a hoot about what cc creators would like. (Let me turn it off. Like sofurry) it's more to just defend why it's not changing. Okay. Well that's made my decision for me. Too bad I can't get my donation back.

 

 

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