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  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by weykent View Post
    The thing I'm trying to understand overall here is how to make community tagging seem like more of a net positive to the skeptics, and make it easier to handle the cases they're concerned about.
    I can only speak for myself obviously but from what I've gleaned from other comments on another thread, that's not going to happen. It's a negative over all as it gives the 'community' too much power over created content.

    I know that's why I like FA--I create the content, or have it created for me, I submit it, I control the tags.

    same with SoFurry.

    The first time someone on Weasyl added a tag to my work, it turned me off forever and I only really use it because of friends and people that do draw things for me add them here.

  2. #172
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    Why is it "too much power"? Assuming the artist doesn't have the option to just turn it off, how would a community pool of tags for a piece constitute any more power than them hotlinking it to friends or commenting?

    I'll echo weykent in asking what exactly is the great terror of a user finding a piece via a tag that was added by the community (assuming it's valid since if it wasn't it would've been flagged/removed)? And if that's not the 'negative' then what is? The act of tagging itself?
    "To tell us that every species of thing is endowed with an occult specific quality by which it acts and produces manifest effects, is to tell us nothing; but to derive two or three general principles of motion from phenomena, and afterwards to tell us how the properties and actions of all corporeal things follow from those manifest principles, would be a very great step." -Issac Newton, Optics
    "You are what you do not do." - Relax

  3. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkCat View Post
    Isn't the whole point of posting to a public gallery for visibility? Wouldn't you make it "closed" or invite only otherwise?
    For most people, of course it is. I'm not saying it isn't, but when I'm an exception to that myself I don't agree it's "the whole point" for everybody.

    If I want to share something privately I wouldn't be posting it at all, since that can be done through different means. I don't want to shirk off visibility of my submissions totally, I just want it on a minimal basis sometimes, however mildly on my terms. Some things I want seen as much as possible, sure, but a lot I'd rather have just stumbled upon as it inevitably would be. An addition of tags, so long as they lead to my submission in some way, gives me the vibe that it'll go against my wishes. It widens the pool of tags my submission appears in, and I'm not comfortable with that. Logic isn't overriding my emotions on the matter, that's it.

    I mean, I wouldn't care so much if tags are added to something I need attention on, like a price sheet or something for sale, but for personal work it's going to bother me if I don't have the choice to accept tags before they're active, is that a word for it?

    I could really use clarification on how added tags go to use, since I'm under the impression once they're added, they're a working search term, unless they're removed again or something - if this process is reactive and not proactive on the CC's part, I'm going to have reservations about what I'm willing to post knowing that.

  4.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #174
    Quote Originally Posted by ganache View Post
    For most people, of course it is. I'm not saying it isn't, but when I'm an exception to that myself I don't agree it's "the whole point" for everybody.

    If I want to share something privately I wouldn't be posting it at all, since that can be done through different means. I don't want to shirk off visibility of my submissions totally, I just want it on a minimal basis sometimes, however mildly on my terms. Some things I want seen as much as possible, sure, but a lot I'd rather have just stumbled upon as it inevitably would be. An addition of tags, so long as they lead to my submission in some way, gives me the vibe that it'll go against my wishes. It widens the pool of tags my submission appears in, and I'm not comfortable with that. Logic isn't overriding my emotions on the matter, that's it.

    I mean, I wouldn't care so much if tags are added to something I need attention on, like a price sheet or something for sale, but for personal work it's going to bother me if I don't have the choice to accept tags before they're active, is that a word for it?

    I could really use clarification on how added tags go to use, since I'm under the impression once they're added, they're a working search term, unless they're removed again or something - if this process is reactive and not proactive on the CC's part, I'm going to have reservations about what I'm willing to post knowing that.
    It's a long thread, so apologies if you've already seen these posts, but I think that Bornes covered this pretty well:
    https://forums.weasyl.com/vbulletin/...ll=1#post89366
    https://forums.weasyl.com/vbulletin/...ll=1#post89390

  5. #175
    Senior DrunkCat's Avatar
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    That fellow nails the entire thing pretty well. Weasyl is a community for artists and patrons, if you don't want to be part of the community then why be here?
    "To tell us that every species of thing is endowed with an occult specific quality by which it acts and produces manifest effects, is to tell us nothing; but to derive two or three general principles of motion from phenomena, and afterwards to tell us how the properties and actions of all corporeal things follow from those manifest principles, would be a very great step." -Issac Newton, Optics
    "You are what you do not do." - Relax

  6. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkCat View Post
    That fellow nails the entire thing pretty well. Weasyl is a community for artists and patrons, if you don't want to be part of the community then why be here?
    So just because someone doesn't like community tagging means they don't want to be a part of the community? Just because they want complete and total control over the tagging like every other allows?

    There's more to a community than just tagging than are dreamt of in your philosophies, Horatio.

    The sad part that you and they said this and it feels like there are staff actively encouraging people to leave is what's most telling. So much for 'community'. Should not a 'community' be people of differing opinions and thoughts? or should we all goosestep to the same drum, comrade?

  7. #177
    I was aware of those responses and have thought back to them already. I don't disagree with them totally, but I'm still disappointed.

    I'm not saying I don't want to interact with weasyl's community period, it's that I don't like how it's done through tagging in its present form. I've spoken up at all because I want the site grow, not shrink or go stagnant because this system turns people off, and added my two cents just to expand on a way this isn't taking off as well as it could. Reasons aren't always serious when people dislike things enough to drop them totally, but my point is they add up.

    If fostering community is the issue, I think other means of interaction need to take priority over tagging stuff that isn't yours anyway, when it's so contentious and will probably stay so while other things go unchanged. It makes this debacle seem like a bigger grievance than it has to, and I'd be less concerned about people disagreeing with the tagging policy if there were more to current site features to make up for it. Improving the note system, or making it easier to see who others are following/followed by - things that actually let users get to know each other?? That feels lacking, while tagging (presently) comes off as invasive to enough CC's to have warranted this conversation.
    Last edited by ganache; 08-20-2015 at 05:38 PM.

  8. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by pthnrgrrl View Post
    So just because someone doesn't like community tagging means they don't want to be a part of the community? Just because they want complete and total control over the tagging like every other allows?
    Well, yes. As Bornes said it's a matter of collaboration and sharing. Having complete control just leads weasyl down the path of being a an image storage database. There can be compromise but neutering the entire feature would remove something that indeed makes Weasyl unique.

    Quote Originally Posted by pthnrgrrl View Post
    The sad part that you and they said this and it feels like there are staff actively encouraging people to leave is what's most telling. So much for 'community'. Should not a 'community' be people of differing opinions and thoughts? or should we all goosestep to the same drum, comrade?
    The fact that I'm not permanently banned speaks volumes to Weasyl's acceptance of opinion and thoughts. Hell, this entire thread was made to seek out a compromise on the matter and field new ideas. For now, Weasyl wants to strive to be a full collaborative website, and to weasyl, that means community tagging. (for now)

    What that means is that by taking such an extreme polarized stance is that you are deciding that Weasyl is not for you. Dissent and opinions are welcomed, but you have not offered either. You've stayed to your guns that community tagging is a great evil and given no indication that you're willing to compromise. Do you think there is no irony in asking for Weasyl to be accommodating and not reciprocating?
    "To tell us that every species of thing is endowed with an occult specific quality by which it acts and produces manifest effects, is to tell us nothing; but to derive two or three general principles of motion from phenomena, and afterwards to tell us how the properties and actions of all corporeal things follow from those manifest principles, would be a very great step." -Issac Newton, Optics
    "You are what you do not do." - Relax

  9. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkCat View Post
    Having complete control just leads weasyl down the path of being a an image storage database.
    And having the tagging feature as-is will lead to unfettered trolling by malicious users and their spambots?

    Not everyone who sees the option to refuse community tagging will make use of it, the same as having the option for tagging by the community will not be used by the majority of the community, regardless of the outcome of their tagging.

    Nowhere near so many people as are registered have used the tagging feature, and yet this site has not collapsed. Implementing the option to uniformly revoke the option should the uploader choose that path will not bring about the site's destruction.
    Sega does what Nintendon't.

  10. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueJaySF View Post
    And having the tagging feature as-is will lead to unfettered trolling by malicious users and their spambots?
    Apparently this is about as rampant as US voter fraud so... No?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueJaySF View Post
    Implementing the option to uniformly revoke the option should the uploader choose that path will not bring about the site's destruction.
    I agree, it should be wholesale.

    Quote Originally Posted by XoPachi View Post
    Question! 'u`
    Because there are 19 pages of VERY long posts and I really don't feel like checking to see if it's been suggested already.

    Have you guys considered making a "preset" but on going pool of tags that mods can approve of to avoid any stupid shit from being fabricated? Very GENERAL stuff? There are some obvious glaring issues with this, but I'll let you guys pick it apart or you can direct to whomever may have said it first.
    Oh oh, I have. :3
    "To tell us that every species of thing is endowed with an occult specific quality by which it acts and produces manifest effects, is to tell us nothing; but to derive two or three general principles of motion from phenomena, and afterwards to tell us how the properties and actions of all corporeal things follow from those manifest principles, would be a very great step." -Issac Newton, Optics
    "You are what you do not do." - Relax

 

 

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