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  1. #51
    Regular Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bornes View Post
    Did you even read what I wrote?
    If you didn't notice, we are not talking privately one-to-one - I'm not answering ONLY to you, I answer to people in this thread and their concerns in general.

    We have a saying here: "If it's not your shirt, don't put it on." It means, that when something I say does not apply to you, then don't take it as if it was meant to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bornes View Post
    I said the problem with Weasyl is that Weasyl, the site itself, cannot decide on what it wants to be.
    And I proposed a solution for that. "Did you even read what I wrote?"

    What I said is that in my opinion Weasyl could be categorized as:
    Alternative art site with a focus on anthro, fantasy and animal art.

    Now, I don't say that is the perfect solution or anything, just my two cents.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bornes View Post
    And until it decides that, it cannot be as successful
    I was just trying to be mindful of the people who came here back then because they wanted a general art site. I was trying to say that the two groups can share the place in peace.

    But if you ask my personal opinion... well... If you paid attention you could have seen it already, I just wasn't stressing it but I said it several times, in several ways:

    Weasyl at the present is a furry site. Period.

    This is what I was trying to say with the Lamborghini example. It doesn't matter what Weasyl used to be or aimed to be, because what Weasyl is, is defined by its user base and contents, and based on that, it is clearly and unquestionably a furry art and community site at the present.

    Trying to turn it back into a general art site would be pissing against the wind. Fighting windmills. Trying to put the baby back into the mother's womb... I think I'm clear?

    Weasyl needs to make a decision as to what its audience is, and then MAKE MOVES TO FOLLOW THAT DIRECTION.
    Yes, I agree, and I was agreeing to that all along.

    My crime here was, that instead of telling all the non-furries aboard that "sorry dude, you boarded the wrong train and now you are f*cked", I was trying to suggest, that they can still be part of the Weasyl community, and that if they like it here it's OK to share a space with the furries, and the furries should be OK with sharing the space with them.

    So really, your example would be more accurate if Lamborghini kept telling everyone it was really still a tractor company, even though it was ONLY producing luxury cars.
    My example was for Something completely different. You are completely misrepresenting it! I was reacting to the general artists who kept saying that Weasyl needs to focus on general art.

    In other words, I was trying to tell those who advocate that Weasyl should focus on general art, that they are wrong - but I tried to say that in a way that doesn't sound aggressive, and brought up an example to make it clear what I mean.

    *I'm not mad at you.
    I'm only mad for the "did you even rad" comment (which I personally feel pretty insulting) and for the fact that you are - even if unintentionally and out of misunderstanding - misrepresenting my argument and trying to invalidate (the misrepresentation of) it by counter-arguments that have nothing to do with what I was trying to say.

    See: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

    I'm just extremely allergic to being misrepresented. So I hope you see now what I was trying to say and instead of arguing something I've never actually said we can get back to a meaningful discussion with no hard feelings.



    Quote Originally Posted by GreenReaper View Post
    Let's be frank: Weasyl is a furry site, in that its core audience is the furry community, and has been for years.
    That's what I was saying for days now in like a dozen different ways...

    It's Marketing 101: only once you have a razor-sharp focus on your audience can you develop the right site
    let me disagree just a little bit! While I agree that there needs to be a focus, I disagree with the razor-sharp part.

    Why? Because there is no perfect spaghetti sauce. ... WAIT WUT?!

    Watch this TED talk on customer diversity and you will understand: http://www.ted.com/talks/malcolm_gla...ce?language=en

    For those who are too lazy, here is the point: There is so much diversity in customers that a single, "perfect" product can only match a small part of them. If you want to cover most of them, you need diverse options.

    In other words, a "razor sharp" focus on furry art would be a mistake because it would exclude everyone who is not strictly interested in furry art. For example it would exclude me, because I draw non-furry things too, and I find it bullshit to not be able to upload all my art into my gallery, independent of the fact if it's anthro or not.

    Summa summarum, Weasyl is right the way it is in regard that it has a furry majority yet it doesn't disallow anything, so that this aforementioned furry majority can express itself freely - and it welcomes those non-furries who want to come along for the ride.

    Yes, I agree Weasyl should finally say it out loud that "yes guys, we are a furry site now" but honestly, it changes nothing in regard of its user base and content. It would only be good fo9r clarity, and to dismiss arguments about focusing on general art, so we can get back to focusing on furry art.

    For those hoping for Weasyl to become "the main furry social art site": it may, but take care what you wish for. There are good reasons to aim elsewhere. Furry is fragmenting as it grows; there will be be more than one big furry site for the foreseeable future, each best in different areas. This is a healthy situation - as annoying as it may be for artists wanting to have everyone under one roof - since it's an opportunity to specialize, and hence better-serve particular markets within the furry community, while avoiding the risks of centralization.
    There are very few markets that are so-specific that a separate site is needed. The majority of interests and topics can still share a single roof, and so yes, Weasyl could become a primary site, and smaller sites can serve the minority audiences with whatever they please.
    - Storm ~ "Sic itur ad astra per aspera." [Commission info]

  2.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #52
    Retired Staff piņardilla's Avatar

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    To be honest, I have a tough time understanding the idea that we're too focused on general art and not enough on furry art. Weasyl itself is just the platform, the content all comes from you guys. There aren't really any infrastructure features that only appeal to furries, or that appeal to everyone but furries. There isn't anything that we are sacrificing or holding back from the site and its current userbase in the hopes of attracting others. What's good for furry artists is good for other artists too, and vice versa. I see nothing to be gained from being arbitrarily exclusionary.

    My feelings are that we're absolutely committed to meeting the needs of the community we have as best we can and helping it grow, which right now is pretty much just furries. But, if tomorrow we found that a good segment of artists from some other genre happened to like the structure of our site enough to take up residence, we'd want to welcome them in and help grow their network here, too. And I see no reason why we would have to compromise meeting furries' needs to be able to accommodate others.
         
       
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  3. #53
    Junior Tara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by piņardilla View Post
    But, if tomorrow we found that a good segment of artists from some other genre happened to like the structure of our site enough to take up residence, we'd want to welcome them in and help grow their network here, too. And I see no reason why we would have to compromise meeting furries' needs to be able to accommodate others.
    I think the issue here is not whether furries and non-furry artists need different site features. Both need a stable site with a functional search engine, groups, thumbnail customization, uploads supporting different file formats, etc. But it's very unlikely at the present moment that a person who is not a furry and stumbles upon Weasyl will decide to post here because it's a nicely-coded or designed site.

    I know several people who have content they could upload to this type of a site, but they wouldn't be interested, because their audience would be almost exclusively furries. They don't mind furries, but you keep an online gallery to interact with people of similar interests. Furries and non-furry artists could both be on this site comfortably, but in order for that to happen, a non-furry community should be built up. How is the big question (that some have already tried to answer).

  4. #54
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    just adding that maybe many furry artist, who until now kept their generic art separated on DA, might just open up and start overlapping with the "non-furries".

    (I'll too)

    that might just help the situation in the non-furries Favor

    I can't see into the future, so I don't know if others will do that too, but it is a high possibility.

  5. #55
    Regular Storm's Avatar
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    All I personally do, is I upload all my art here, fury or not.

    But right now what happens is that there is a small minority here, who are not furries and are not interested in fury art, who keep stressing that they want Weasyl to focus more on them...

    But if we go with the idea, that Weasyl doesn't have a set priority, it still seems illogical when a tiny minority wants the be focused over the vast majority. That makes no sense. Why would Weasyl put effort into focusing a subject that is related to 1-2% of its users over something that relates to 99%?


    Quote Originally Posted by piņardilla View Post
    To be honest, I have a tough time understanding the idea that we're too focused on general art and not enough on furry art. Weasyl itself is just the platform, the content all comes from you guys. There aren't really any infrastructure features that only appeal to furries, or that appeal to everyone but furries. There isn't anything that we are sacrificing or holding back from the site and its current userbase in the hopes of attracting others. What's good for furry artists is good for other artists too, and vice versa. I see nothing to be gained from being arbitrarily exclusionary.

    My feelings are that we're absolutely committed to meeting the needs of the community we have as best we can and helping it grow, which right now is pretty much just furries. But, if tomorrow we found that a good segment of artists from some other genre happened to like the structure of our site enough to take up residence, we'd want to welcome them in and help grow their network here, too. And I see no reason why we would have to compromise meeting furries' needs to be able to accommodate others.
    What we are trying to say is that if Weasyl has a vast majority of furry users and contents, then finally admitting that Weasyl technically IS a furry site, and start marketing it as such, it would greatly benefit that aforementioned majority.

    I understand your point, and even if it is said out it doesn't mean that non-furry art should be banned or anything like that, but there is a saying: You can't sit on two horses with only one ass. Well... you can for a while but it is extremely inefficient, and you WILL fall sooner or later.

    Weasyl cannot reach its true potential as a furry site, until it starts to act like a furry site instead of trying to be everything.

    And there ARE furry specific aspects of running the site! For example:
    - Marketing it AS a fuirry site will increase furry users
    - Targeting furry specific events such as cons etc. will greatly increase popularity, and help furry artists on Weasyl gain more exposure.
    - Public partnership with other furry oriented websites will boost traffic and increase discoverability.
    - Storm ~ "Sic itur ad astra per aspera." [Commission info]

  6. #56
    Junior Tara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Storm View Post
    But if we go with the idea, that Weasyl doesn't have a set priority, it still seems illogical when a tiny minority wants the be focused over the vast majority. That makes no sense. Why would Weasyl put effort into focusing a subject that is related to 1-2% of its users over something that relates to 99%?
    Building up a diverse art community wouldn't mean excluding furries, so it's not exactly focusing on 1-2% of users. Not to mention, as akitary said, there are users who would then feel more inclined to post their non-furry work. It's never going to be a completely balanced community, but I see no issue in trying to expand. A diverse art community is a lovely experience.

    What we are trying to say is that if Weasyl has a vast majority of furry users and contents, then finally admitting that Weasyl technically IS a furry site, and start marketing it as such, it would greatly benefit that aforementioned majority.
    Just as clarification, I am not saying that.

    And there ARE furry specific aspects of running the site! For example:
    - Marketing it AS a fuirry site will increase furry users
    - Targeting furry specific events such as cons etc. will greatly increase popularity, and help furry artists on Weasyl gain more exposure.
    - Public partnership with other furry oriented websites will boost traffic and increase discoverability.
    The same thing could be said about marketing to visual artists and designers - it will increase the number of visual artists and designers (if marketed properly). Or attending events or cons related to animation, illustration, contemporary art, video art, etc. Partnership with organizations and websites related to practically any type of art that have a certain amount of visibility. So none of that is furry-specific. And none of these activities would put furries in an unfavourable position, unless you consider not being the majority or the overwhelming majority an unfavourable position.

  7. #57
    As a furry, I for one would love to see more non-furry stuff out there. There are tons of awesome designs and paintings and whatnot from various other fandoms that would be great to have here on Weasyl.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Socks the Fox View Post
    As a furry, I for one would love to see more non-furry stuff out there. There are tons of awesome designs and paintings and whatnot from various other fandoms that would be great to have here on Weasyl.
    I second this. There's no law that says you have to like just one thing, and exploring markets outside furry is just good business.

  9. #59
    Junior rowedahelicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbartrop View Post
    I second this. There's no law that says you have to like just one thing, and exploring markets outside furry is just good business.
    Now my question is though, in the defense of Weasyl advertising themselves mostly to furries...Where would one advertise to a non furry audience? Legit question as I thought about it and I'm not sure honestly.

    The only place I could think of would be general anime cons or something? But that would be hard to do without the budget I imagine.

  10.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #60
    Regular armaina's Avatar
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    I just have to point out that seeing Weasyl as a 'replacement' for FA is the worst possible thing. Weasyl isn't the same community, it doesn't have the same goals or wants, no desire to be a 'furry hub', just an 'art community'. People use FA like furry social network more than a social art community, which is fine for them, but makes no sense to force that view here.

    Quote Originally Posted by rowedahelicon View Post
    The only place I could think of would be general anime cons or something? But that would be hard to do without the budget I imagine.
    I say ComicCons. They're fandom slanted but ultimately creativity driven communities, ComicCons are also very artist heavy.

 

 

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