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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Je Suis Charlie

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamedog View Post
    How is this relevant here?
    I think it's self refrence. Posting a completely non-sequitor image of a cartoon strip demonstrating a non-sequitor scenario.

    Unless the strip is about flood insurance being more easier to scam than fire insurance. If so then I can not help.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeenageAngst View Post
    There's plenty of places that hate Muslims. India, Russia, the USA, the UK, Spain, but none of these nations were *founded* on hating Muslims. Just like there are lots of pompous physicists who like to show off how smart they are, but only one of them actually wrote a book about all the times they were right and called it, Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman! That's what I mean when I say I don't think people realize just how much they're disliked over there.
    Sorry but a Wikipedia article on a battle doesn't have enough proof for me to believe that France was founded on hating Muslims.
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleu View Post
    Sorry but a Wikipedia article on a battle doesn't have enough proof for me to believe that France was founded on hating Muslims.
    Then you obviously don't understand the significance of the Battle of Tours. Charles Martel was originally a lower-class nobleman of the Franks and worked his way up to become a Duke. Ridiculous upward mobility wasn't enough for him though, Charles wanted to preserve his new acquisitions. He realized that the Moors' campaign of northern Africa would not be stopped by the powers in Europe at the time and sought to create the first regular army in Europe since the Roman Legion. He went to extreme measures to do this, even robbing local churches of donations he'd freely given them, and was almost excommunicated by the Vatican until the Moors sacked the Visigoth kingdom of Hispania in the Iberian Peninsula. Though initially stalled by an early victory by Odo the Great of Aquitaine, the Moors sacked his kingdom as well, leaving the Frankish lands the only remaining resistance in Europe.

    At this time the Franks were not regarded as a military power. The Moors didn't really think there would be any resistance beyond the Iberian Peninsula, and they would have been right were it not for Charles Martel. Because of this the Moorish army was spread out and outran its own supply line. Charles meanwhile had trained his seasoned soldiers and chose an optimal place for the battle, a forested area between Poitiers and Tours. The Moorish general was flabbergasted to see such a formidable force waiting for him and didn't want to risk a charge. Unfortunately it was October and he didn't have the supplies for a long siege so he was forced to throw his cavalry at the lines of Frankish troops. Until this point his cavalry charges had essentially handed him every battle with the barbarians, but against the Frankish troops who refused to break formation, the horses were cut down and the lightly armored Moors couldn't fight the phalanxes of heavily armored Franks. Eventually he had his men fall back which, in the heat of the battle, quickly turned into an all out retreat where the Franks pursued them until nightfall. When the next day came, it was found the Moors retreated so quickly they left all their plunder behind and even their tents still standing.

    Charles Martel earned his namesake there and pretty much rested on those laurels. He would sometimes bring up the fact he kept the Moors from invading Frankish lands in the courts of other nobles to shut them up. His victory also began the unification of France. He was the grandfather of Charlemagne and essentially was the George Washington of France. He was responsible for allowing Europe to rediscover and develop its own culture and it marked a turning point in the dark ages as the end of the age of barbarism. Frankish lands became France, the Holy Roman Empire. The battle also set a precedent in French military doctrine that would hold until World War II.

    Thus France was founded on keeping the Muslims out of Europe while being as nationalistic as possible. From the Battle of Tours to the Holy Roman Empire to the Crusades, that was their job, and by god did they do it.
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  5. #25
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    As cool as it is to learn about wars and stuff...


    What does this have to do with the French hating Muslims today, if at all? Views definitely change over 1200 years (Considering the Battle Of Tours took place in 732 AD/CE), and we've seen them change within a hundred years or less.



    More importantly, what does this have to do with the fact that people were murdered, taken hostage, and killed over something as silly as satire?

    Yeah, there was a war (1200 years ago). But a war is a war, where both sides are knowingly fighting each other at that stage. Not only that, but the Battle Of Tours, from what I could see, was an issue of expansion. And from what I could see and what was described here, there is nothing to show that it was caused by racism.
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  6. #26
    Remember when France tried to ban Muslim head coverings in schools? Freedom.

    Honestly, if this doesn't explain how what I said is relevant I really don't know what will.
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    That doesn't prove that France was founded on hating Muslims. He wanted the land, he took it by force. It has nothing to do with their religion and more of "hey, you're in my spot. Move bitch"

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by TeenageAngst View Post
    Remember when France tried to ban Muslim head coverings in schools? Freedom.

    Honestly, if this doesn't explain how what I said is relevant I really don't know what will.
    Actually, Belgium did that too.
    Even went as far as to say "no rainbow-shirts if you're working in a public office" because of neutrality or some similarly laughable reason.

  9. #29
    …are you trying to say Charles Martel was a conqueror? Or are you trying to say Abd-Al Rahman wasn't trying to spread Islam with his conquests, which was pretty much the entire point of the Moorish expansion?
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeenageAngst View Post
    …are you trying to say Charles Martel was a conqueror? Or are you trying to say Abd-Al Rahman wasn't trying to spread Islam with his conquests, which was pretty much the entire point of the Moorish expansion?
    No, we're saying that with the information we have in the thread at the moment, it's plausible that Martel's core motivation was to prevent a conquest that happened to be Muslim. The premise is comparable to how we try to prevent terrorism, which often happens to have Muslim roots. We don't fight them because we hate Islam; we fight them because they kill people and happen to have that trait.

 

 

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