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  1. #41
    Senior Damian's Avatar
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    I have a few friends attending there. I hope they're alright.

    I know there's this whole "leaping to conclusions" thing people don't like but why else would there be a chlorine attack that coincidentally happens during a furry convention? Something like this is for en mass injury or fear so if it was targeting someone specific, they did a really piss poor job of it.

    I also feel bad for people that just happen to be staying there for traveling or what-not and then suddenly evacuation or hospital visit if they were a victim of the gas or a family/friend was.
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  2. #42
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    They'd have to be a special kind of stupid to not know how dangerous chlorine is. A simple prank is pulling the fire alarm or even calling animal control.

    I've been considering whether or not it was for a specific person/persons. It all really depends on whether the placement was a spill or intentional. If it was intentional then it'd be a general attack. The police have ruled there was intent so whether or not they mean there was an intent for something bigger or what happened was the intent I guess we'll find out if the person is caught.
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  3.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #43
    Didn't try, Succeeded Fay V's Avatar



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    That was all very...interesting when it went down. I was actually on the other end of the 10th floor when it was going on and left the hotel right as the first cop cars were showing up.

    I'm not entirely convinced this is just furry hate tbh. I don't have a lot of details, but it was apparently a powdered chlorine chemical used for pool cleaning (no pool in the hyatt). Mixed with alcohol or gas I believe it makes chlorine gas. It was a glass jar that was found in the stairwell not a regular bucket or anything, so it was purposefully being transported to that location.

    The thing that bothers me is that they chose the 10th floor. That's a lot of stairs to climb (the elevators were being annoying at the time, so this person probably didn't take the concoction onto the elevator, whatever doesn't matter. I don't think someone just tripped after a bunch of stairs, because chlorine gas is heavier than air, it sinks.

    If you want to cause a lot of damage start at the top and have it go down. It seems someone knew enough to find the right chemical, mix it up, and put it in a place where it wasn't easily found and would work its way down to hit the most people. So I dunno, it could be furry hate or someone that saw there were two conventions going on and decided to attack a packed hotel.

  4. #44
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    Personally, I don't see people doing something without a strong reason for it. Given that this was at a furry con and furries generally get a lot of bad rep, it's just the simplest conclusion. Anything else would be, I dunno, having something against the Hyatt itself or wanted to make a statement in that particular location. Maybe someone that lives in that city could cast more light on that.

    Also there was another con? I hadn't heard of that. Heck I didn't think that two cons could reside in one place without breaking some sort of over-crowded code.
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  5. #45
    Fay V that fascinates me even more. This person not only pre-meditated it, but they knew what they were doing. This could cross the line into domestic terrorism.
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  6. #46
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    Just a correction, chlorine itself willl burn the lungs and knock you on your ass, but the most well known chemical warfare was "mustard gas", which was not made from chlorine.
    Chlorine gas (another chemical warfare) was made by mixing bleach and hydrochloric acid, which gave off horrible fumes and killed people.

    Someone walking around with a jar of chlorine powder either didn't know what they were doing, or were going to try and mix it with another substance. By the looks of the picture, it appears that they either sprinkled it or they threw it up the stairs at the wall.


    This is also the reason why you should never ever ever mix cleaning chemicals, and to thoroughly rinse/drain your sink out after pouring chemicals down the drain.


    Now, asking the question that I'm sure everybody is wondering: Does this hotel not have security cameras??????

  7. #47
    A few thoughts:

    I can remember very few cons I've been to where the con wasn't sharing space with some other function. There was also a dog show at the hotel. Did they have people or activities on the tenth floor? For that matter, what about MFF? Were that any other events happening that night?

    As for an "inside job", fandom, and I don't mean just furry fandom. does have it's share of "special" people. I was at a con, where one person reacted to being asked to leave the con was to empty a fire extinguisher into the consuite, and try and hurl themselves out a window. A disgruntled fan with exceptionally poor judgement is not out of the question, though to suggest that this was somehow engineered by the con itself is getting into tinfoil hat territory.

    Fursecution? I think it's important to remember that a few noisy people commenting on the internet is not "everyone", and even the people who don't like furries seem to agree that poisoning them is not an appropriate response. Of course, there's always the possibility of one especially deranged person.

  8. #48
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    Well they're already deranged enough to plan a poisoning of a ton of people. It doesn't seem that farfetched.
    We all have our demons. If we're not fighting them, then we've befriended them.

  9.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #49
    Didn't try, Succeeded Fay V's Avatar



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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleu View Post
    Personally, I don't see people doing something without a strong reason for it. Given that this was at a furry con and furries generally get a lot of bad rep, it's just the simplest conclusion. Anything else would be, I dunno, having something against the Hyatt itself or wanted to make a statement in that particular location. Maybe someone that lives in that city could cast more light on that.

    Also there was another con? I hadn't heard of that. Heck I didn't think that two cons could reside in one place without breaking some sort of over-crowded code.
    There was a dog show in the con center right next door, dog people had been in the hotel too.

    I dunno personally I think the 10th floor thing was to make it sink down through all floors, by the time the evacuation was going on people in the lobby could smell it.

  10.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #50
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    I was also at MFF and I'm okay. I was with Fay at the time of the attack. It was a rough scene. Not many people actually got hurt, but the evacuation forced thousands of tired, scared people out into the cold. Thankfully the convention center holding the dog show opened their doors, and the Hilton was also gracious enough to let evacuees rest in the lobby (and they packed it full) until the all clear, which was nice to see. Even with shelter, though, it was a scary time. Everyone was trying to find out if all their friends were okay, and many people didn't have their phones on them when they were evacuated and couldn't let their friends know they were okay. Dozens if not hundreds of fursuiters were stuck in suit for hours without access to a change of clothes.

    On the plus side, I don't think I heard of a single instance of anyone being jerks to each other during the ordeal. The community really came together on this one.

    My thoughts on the attack:

    Intentional? Unquestionably. The Hyatt didn't even have a pool, so it's very doubtful that there was ever a legitimate purpose for their use, particularly at the top of a stairwell, and an employee almost certainly would have reported a spill if they caused one. Pool chemical powders also aren't elemental chlorine and don't just evolve chlorine gas on their own, It takes a reaction, so a spill of powder on the floor would have remained just powder on the floor until something else was spilled on it. Finally, when the powder was first found, it was reported as being a broken jar of powder. A big glass jar would never be legitimately used for storing or transporting chemicals like this, but a sealed jar makes a good reaction vessel that would essentially function as a scaled-up "bottle bomb" and give the perpetrator a time delay to escape.

    Pre-meditated? Almost certainly planned in advance. Hosing down a con suite with a fire extinguisher is an easy "crime of passion" since fire extinguishers are deliberately made readily available and easy to use. Chemicals to produce chlorine gas are less easy to acquire, especially in a hotel without a pool, and take an actual effort to use. It's in the realm of possibility that they stole some from a neighboring hotel, but that takes time to get there and back, during which I can't imagine anyone not cooling down and deciding that it isn't worth the effort.

    "They knew their shit?" Somewhat. The knowledge necessary to set up an attack like this is well within the grasp of anyone who has passed a college semester of general chemistry, or even did well in high school chemistry. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that there are directions to do something like this on the internet, because it really is a simple reaction. I agree that the placement on the 10th floor was likely done knowing that chlorine is heavier than air, which anyone at that level should know, although it is possible that they picked it just as a place it would be less likely to be discovered. If they really wanted to severely hurt a lot of people, though, this wasn't really a Walter White plan. Thankfully, a bunch of walkways overlooking a giant atrium is nothing like the trenches on the Western Front. A big open space like that allows chlorine gas to spill over the railings into the atrium and dilute the gas enough to not be an immediate threat to anyone in the lobby. The walkway railings were a solid wall design, though, so unfortunately the ninth floor still got it pretty bad, and it wouldn't surprise me if the worst cases weren't those who tried to escape down those same stairs from there.

    Who, and why? Here's where I draw a blank. Furry fandom has more than its share of unstable people, who have on occasion tried to do horrible things to each other over petty shit, but I can't remember anyone ever trying to indiscriminately harm a huge number of their peers before. 4chan etc. have a lot of people that are actually just as unstable, but furries are old news to the internet now, and almost nobody cares beyond low-effort humor at this point. No matter what theory I come up with, I just can't believe someone would actually go through with something like this. That means someone out there is worse than I give them credit for, and that scares me.
         
       
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