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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Vegan-furs. New group!

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rory View Post
    Your inability to have a discussion without getting defensive does not constitute an argument on my part. Someone who is confident in their choices has no reason to get defensive when they're up for discussion. Have I once said I disapprove of your choices? Have I once said they are wrong? Have I once said you should follow the way I do things? I was a strict vegetarian for 8 bloody years, it's not like I have no right to my opinions. I never once opened my mouth to meat eaters saying they were wrong, I always co-existed peacefully by keeping my choices to myself. And eventually, I decided that choice was wrong for myself, and I transitioned quietly back.

    No, all I'm doing is offering counterpoints to things being said, without getting defensive about it like it's some sort of personal attack. News flash: I'm not attacking you, nobody is attacking you. Cut the goddamn theatrics out and have a discussion like someone with an ounce of maturity, instead of saying "I'm leaving" and then coming back over and over to wax on about how oppressed you are.

    Also, implying I'm going to power trip because of my staff association on the site is uncalled for. You can ask any user here about my style of moderation and the respect that I give to all of our users, and I would never overstep my bounds, especially not for something as petty as this.
    Fine, I'm not going to argue with you, not like you would listen to anything I or others say anyway. Just agree to ignore each other and go our separate ways. I find killing and using living things morally reprehensible. That is my stance. That's the last thing I'll say, to me the discussion is closed and I'll stay with my own group, you do what you want.
    "You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar"
    I'm a vegan I don't eat honey.

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  2.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassySloth View Post
    A classic. My response: Why does it matter? I'm not on a deserted island I'm in a well developed country where I have many, many alternatives to supporting animal slaughter (and by extension environmental damage, water depletion, etc.). To answer the question though I'd probably just commit suicide because fug that situation would be a bummer.
    For the most part it doesn't, and it's not something to bring up if someone is just vegetarian. I bring it up with my roommates because we are ethicists and so it's to see the commitment to their argument (this is what we all do for a living so it's less that he's vegan and more, he has a position on something). One of them is vegan due to a rights based account, meaning that as humans there are certain things you can't do to us because we have rights, namely use someone as a means to an end. He argues animals feel pain therefore also have such rights. The reason to ask the "you are literally going to die otherwise" question is because with a rights based account there is no middle ground. We've also asked things like "well what about roadkill, or death by natural causes. What about utilizing abandoned resources (if you live near wild alpacas and they shed)" so on and so forth.

    None of this invalidates his choice to be vegan. If he doesn't have an answer then one moves on. The only time his points are genuinely questioned is when we talk about honey, because he's on the fence with it, which affects the grocery shopping.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Bunnycorn View Post
    Like I said, Animal Welfarists do it ALL THE TIME.

    Heck, by doing so, you pretty much ARE saying "Humans HAVE to eat meat." Like I said, whether we eat meat is optional.

    Actually, "Animal Welfarists" don't give two ****s about animals. The ones I've seen don't push against the "declawing of cats" or go against violent animal bloodsports. All they EVER do is talk about how wolves should be hunted to extinction, try to keep their hands clean by blaming an extinction on poachers even when it was legal to hunt an animal, support ANYTHING that involves killing animals, whether it be needlessly or not (That includes trapping, taxidermy, animal testing, fur, etc.), will find ways to demonize TRULY humane alternatives (Like the classic "Fake fur doesn't decompose" as if people are just going to throw their faux-fur coat in the middle of a forest), treat veganism like a crime, and to top it all off, support ONE ANIMAL AND ONE ANIMAL ONLY: Humans. They will do anything to excuse human convenience and pretend humans are oh-so serene and oh-so misunderstood. No, we are NOT misunderstood creatures. Humans, as a whole, DESERVE the hate. That doesn't mean we should kill humans, just that there are good reasons that people dislike them, and those reasons grow daily. And by the way, their definition of "humane" and a normal person's definition are two different things, as anything involving slow and painful death could STILL potentially be called "humane" by "Animal Welfarists."

    So? Some activists DO do terrible things, but compared to the human-loving misothropic Eco-terrorists that are the quote/unquote "Animal Welfarists," I still side with animal rights. That doesn't make me a villain and it does NOT mean I support a lot of those things done by a few animal groups, it just means I'd rather associate myself with REAL animal lovers than those who PRETEND to be ones.

    I would show you some examples, but I am already in enough trouble with scum like them and would rather spend the last bit of respect and decency I have for them trying desperately to ignore the existence of evil people like them. I can say, however, you DEFINITELY seem to be one of those people. And if you're not, I implore you to prove me wrong. Tell me ways we can help NON-HUMAN animals in the environment THAT DON'T INVOLVE KILLING THEM OR PUTTING THEM BELOW HUMAN CONVENIENCE.
    Honestly Benny at this point I'm going to ask that you either throw up some links or just hush on this point. Gamedog at least referenced actions that could be looked up, you on the other hand are forming a strawman so packed with emotional points that I'm half expecting it to devolve into a sobbing misanthropic rant about yahoos and how you long for the country of Houyhnhnms.

    I'm not saying people are perfect or haven't done terrible things, but you are literally adding nothing to the discussion but some over exaggerated villain to justify your own misanthropic rants while you are literally doing absolutely nothing to help any of the situations you're bitching about. If you are concerned that much then talk to your parents about going vegetarian. Go volunteer at a local no kill shelter and help curb wild pet populations. Do some research into the multiple groups that are trying to help farmers deal with wolves and coyotes without killing them, or trying to help wolf populations, or trying to protect wild game from poaching.
    This is the age of the internet, you don't even have to be near something to help out. Fuck I still help out the Raptor Rehabilitation center from my college town 1500 MILES AWAY.

    Seriously stop with this "animal welfarists are teh ebiliest, i hate people" nonsense when 1. you have no solid reference to any of this shit you're complaining about. 2. Your own attempt at something you apparently believe in was "I want to not eat meat but my parents won't let me" and that's it. Do some research into nutrition. Look up awesome vegan recipes. maybe you can't cut meat out entirely but maybe you can get your family to try more vegan stuff. 3. You are constantly talking about how you don't like people and how people do terrible cruel things, but I have never seen any indication that you do anything at all to help things. You know what's worse than sitting on the internet and thinking it's okay to use animals? Sitting on the internet and thinking it's not but doing nothing otherwise. At least with the first the person doesn't see a wrong in it. The second sees something wrong then goes along with the structure anyway buying in to all of the bad that happens. It doesn't matter how loudly you protest a thing you don't like, if you aren't actually doing anything about it then you are at least passively responsible for it as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by mythil View Post
    When over 80% of farm land in the world is used for the feeding of factory farm animals then yes. When bio-diverse ecosystems are destroyed for more grazing land and land to grow soy and corn to feed factory farmed animals, yes. When fishing boats have started to deplete the ocean to the point where more and more fish species are becoming extinct yes.

    If you're a vegan/vegetarian in this thread, I just urge you to just drop it. This isn't the place for us and I suggest we stick to our own and really not interact, it only starts arguments. If you have a local alliance, stick to them, or a larger global one. Heck my local one feels that the things people have posted here are uncalled for, so I'll stick to them instead.

    If you're in London for vegfest I will see you there.
    Honesty dude, that's not the way to go about things. Discussions are not a bad thing, disagreements will happen. Basically this entire time as soon as someone wasn't ready to kiss vegetarian ass you've been on the defensive about it. If all you want is a hugbox then yes, leave, but don't try to start some theatrical walk out. "stick to our own kind" is how people end up believing things that just are not true, like humans are biologically herbivores, or that broccoli has the same calories by ounce as steak.

    If you are going to leave, then leave, but people can have fine conversations between vege/vegan and nonvege. Hell Sassysloth has been lovely, he should get a gold star. He's brought up good points and responded to people well without throwing a fit.
    Last edited by Fay V; 08-02-2014 at 01:00 PM.

  3. #63
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    If you are going to leave, then leave, but people can have fine conversations between vege/vegan and nonvege. Hell Sassysloth has been lovely, she should get a gold star. She's brought up good points and responded to people well without throwing a fit.
    I would have but it's very hard for me to drop anything once I've been addressed.

    To be honest, no amount of apologising would end anything here. I don't like the attitudes of three people here, that's fine, happens and I'll just avoid them. If someone outside of the internet heard me talking about vegan things and said "Hay, here is this blog that says one of the things you based your life off of was rubbish". I'm reticent about even posting this because I know someone is going to take issue with it. But whatever, people don't like me, I don't like them and that's the whole of it. Just annoyed that it got to that point when I just wanted to make a community for people of similar lifestyles.
    "You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar"
    I'm a vegan I don't eat honey.

    Need any help with martial arts stuff or 20th century cartoons/samurai cinema and gangster films?

  4.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by mythil View Post
    I would have but it's very hard for me to drop anything once I've been addressed.

    To be honest, no amount of apologising would end anything here. I don't like the attitudes of three people here, that's fine, happens and I'll just avoid them. If someone outside of the internet heard me talking about vegan things and said "Hay, here is this blog that says one of the things you based your life off of was rubbish". I'm reticent about even posting this because I know someone is going to take issue with it. But whatever, people don't like me, I don't like them and that's the whole of it. Just annoyed that it got to that point when I just wanted to make a community for people of similar lifestyles.
    Honestly that's life. For all your special snowflake commentary on the other thread you have just demonstrated all of that behavior.
    You pointed out a source, someone brought up it isn't accurate. Rather than be an adult and ignore it, or better yet find a counter point you've thrown a hissy fit and insisted that it's better to stick with people that entirely agree with your point already. You pressed so hard that it was "peer reviewed" well that's what peer review is, that's how information works. You present a position and people will present a counter point, because in the end that means that bad points and bad information are removed and only the strong points survive.

    If you honestly can not handle people questioning your life choice at all, then yes it is best for you to leave and hang out with like minded people that will not question your thoughts.

    Again you're allowed to have your group, no one stopped that, no one will stop that, no one can force you to be a meat eater and you won't be banned from here for arguing for veganism, but you also won't be free from neutral disagreement, because that's life.

  5. #65
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    If you want me to provide examples of animal welfarist scum, look up Cynpai, Sulfide, Kuwaizer, Little-Rolling-Bean, Asmilling-Malice, just a few examples of AWFUL people who pretend to care about animals when all they ever do is support their deaths! I tried my hardest not to reference these people, but if you SERIOUSLY needed the examples, look them up and tell me they give two fucks about animals. I'm probably going to have them ride my ass for bringing them up, too, but honestly I don't even care anymore. (I'd link to them manually but DA is acting funky right now.) And it's not just them, I meet people like them REGULARLY.

    You and everyone else have been treating Mythril like shit when he hasn't even done ANYTHING! He's just trying to talk about vegetarianism, but NO! You people are CONSTANTLY bullying him because he does not agree with a bunch of statements that pretty much translate into "You HAVE to eat meat!" If you TRULY respected veganism, you would NOT do everything in your power to refute it. You say "oh, let people eat what they want," and yet that isn't how ANY OF YOU are truly acting at all.

    You have no idea what I do, Fay V. I do whatever I can, personally. I clean up trash a few times a year. I donate to charities when I can. I spread awareness when there's nothing else I can do. I look up facts on animals regularly to learn ways I can contribute to their actual welfare. I don't buy pets from Petco or other big-chain corporations. And when I'm older, I do hope I can volunteer at a no-kill shelter. Honestly, I do what very little I CAN do to help animals. But some things are out of my power, and they're out of most people's too. We all wish we could just clone extinct species, clean rivers with thoughts, and quit meat cold turkey, but in reality we cannot.

    How about we ALL shut up and just let people eat what they want. If a person's a vegetarian, let them be one instead of telling them why it's wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rory View Post
    Your inability to have a discussion without getting defensive does not constitute an argument on my part. Someone who is confident in their choices has no reason to get defensive when they're up for discussion. Have I once said I disapprove of your choices? Have I once said they are wrong? Have I once said you should follow the way I do things? I was a strict vegetarian for 8 bloody years, it's not like I have no right to my opinions. I never once opened my mouth to meat eaters saying they were wrong, I always co-existed peacefully by keeping my choices to myself. And eventually, I decided that choice was wrong for myself, and I transitioned quietly back.
    Honestly, he has a right to be defensive, because all you guys have done have basically told him he's wrong. You may think of it as "providing facts and arguments" but in reality, you really are just saying "Vegetarianism is evil."
    Last edited by Benny Bunnycorn; 08-02-2014 at 04:53 PM.

  6.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Bunnycorn View Post
    Honestly, he has a right to be defensive, because all you guys have done have basically told him he's wrong. You may think of it as "providing facts and arguments" but in reality, you really are just saying "Vegetarianism is evil."
    Your lack of reading comprehension is consistently appalling. Every word you type is just more and more proof of this. To pull out "vegetarianism is evil" out of the things I have said is just delusional, I have no more time to waste on you aside from this post.

  7.   This is the last staff post in this thread.   #67
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    Honestly I'm just going to close this as it's just become emotional defensiveness versus any useful discussion. Should anyone wish to contune talking about the merits or misinformation around environmentalism, veganism, hunting, trapping, whatever then a new thread can be made.

 

 

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