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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Vegan-furs. New group!

  1. #41
    Regular mythil's Avatar
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    Eh it's okay, I think I'll just leave, probably the best option.
    Not even mad, rage quitting or anything so to speak, but it's obvious I'm not making any friends here or any friends with the admins (which can be disastrous in general). Already admitted at least part if not all is my fault.

    Thanks for trying at least. Hope you all, well stay safe and stuff.
    Last edited by mythil; 08-01-2014 at 06:21 PM.
    "You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar"
    I'm a vegan I don't eat honey.

    Need any help with martial arts stuff or 20th century cartoons/samurai cinema and gangster films?

  2.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #42
    Didn't try, Succeeded Fay V's Avatar



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    Quote Originally Posted by mythil View Post
    True though I ask people to consider this. Any time a vegan says they are vegan you will get people who want to prove them wrong, insult them or just post pictures of bacon or just say something dumb like "Mmm bacon".

    It gets infuriating for a lot of vegans to the point where they can snap, a lot. But one of the first comment was from a non vegan who wanted to provide information on how we're wrong, that can make you snap. Like a person who's been bullied a lot and someone makes a comment towards them and the go off.

    I just want to put out a group for people who want to be vegans - vegetarians and talk amongst each other without this happening.
    You are welcome to your group, and no one has stopped that, but as noted this is a forum, forums illicit discussion. The comment Rory wrote was not "all vegans are wrong" it was pointing out that your source might not be as solid as you believed, which is completely valid and completely neutral.
    If one were to post "I am vegan, this study showed eating only carrots will make you poop diamonds" then someone saying "hey here's some research I found that says that's not the case" is not saying "all vegans are wrong get out." No one at all has stopped you from posting, making a group, or talking about your beliefs.

    What has occurred is people discussing, quite calmly and with links and facts to back up their own positions, the relative biological facts of the human body and how that may be associated with health.

    We don't have threads that are "X only" the transgender thread allows people that are not transgender to also discuss the issues. This is no different.

    If you expect a thread where you can say whatever you want without disagreement of any kind, this forum is not for you. If you expected to be able to post one study and a documentary based on that study to then say sweeping generalizations about nutrition, this forum is not for you. I am not saying this to be rude or to incite you to leave, but to bluntly explain that the nature of forums is discussion. You will get disagreements, especially if you intend to post anything attempting to deal with research as that's the bloody point of "peer review" (also, it wasn't. One is a documentary based on a book that summarizes an observational study. Meaning only the studies were peer reviewed and that's generally just "the method is solid")

    I understand getting frustrated and snippy, but this is not going to be a place where you are free from all disagreement about your lifestyle choices. Note that no one has said being vegan is wrong, no one has said you are not allowed to be vegan here or have your group to discuss. Differing facts were given which at no point tells people not to be vegetarian, but allows them to make an informed decision. You are entitled to your opinions and you are entitled to your life choices, but no matter how frustrating it is to you "Human beings are omnivores" is a biological fact and people are free to discuss that.

    Quote Originally Posted by sassySloth View Post
    I personally don't find any of the scientific arguments for vegetarianism/ veganism very helpful. Defensive meat eaters will simply sit on their stockpile of counter-stats and no one seems to get anywhere. It becomes a shouting match of "Nuh-uh I read this one study..."

    I think it's more effective to make the ethical argument and appeal to peoples good will. Most people would probably say they love animals and if given the gun themselves would have a hard time putting a terrified animal (that wants to live of course. Living things like to stay alive) to death. A big part of the conversation is that the factory farming system controls information. Think about how much money meat companies make. It's absurd the amount of influence they have. The public only sees what they are allowed to see which is desensitizing imagery of happy pigs and cows. And cleanly cut and wrapped meat on grocery shelves. From birth we see pigs, chickens, cows, lamb as meat instead of animals that just want to live their lives.
    This I agree with. Scientific arguments either way are pretty bankrupt of actual power, because again we are omnivores so there's no sway in saying "it's natural not to eat meat at all", however we also have adjusted our living habits changing our dietary needs. The only thing science can really tell us is that you should burn more calories than you ingest, and how you get to that figure should be sure to balance the right vitamins and minerals.

    For some that will be meat, for others it will be pure vege, woo.

    The real ground gained is on ethical grounds. There are some rather compelling arguments for vegetarianism and veganism that present solid points in terms of actual rigorous academic discussion. Dealing with moral rights and blah blah no one actually cares here.
    Your point about factory farms is true though. I am a meat eater, I probably won't change that, but I also expect people to be consistent. In that if they are willing to eat animals they should be okay with killing them. Not needlessly, but still. They have to give a reason for why fluffy is not a meal but a pig is. etc etc.

    on the topic of factory farming, there is more we can do there, vegan, vegetarian, whatever. Thankfully I've had the benefit of living in areas where I can access local small farm items rather than factory meat, but not everyone has that benefit and to be ethically consistent something must be done about it.

  3. #43
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    I agree with what Fay says. Personally I have no issues with people creating vegan groups, I just won't join them and it's simple as that, no harm done.

    It's that when someone uses sources to back up or "prove" their side of an argument (because that's what it is, herbivore vs omnivore has been an argument in the vegan community for a loooong time) and these sources are shown to be not only incredibly biased but in some cases proven staged, t needs to be called out in my opinion. I care about these things because the myths spread by vegan documentaries like Earthlings harm ME as someone who works with dead animals, furs, trapping, taxidermy, etc.

    I don't care for being called a serial killer and shit like that, that doesn't bother me, but what DOES bother me is when someone watches a documentary like Earthlings and feels compelled to walk along a trapline, setting off the traps, destroying them (traps are NOT cheap), destroying sets, and releasing captured animals because "Earthlings said it's cruel".

    So whenever I see misinformation being spread regarding veganism, or whenever I see something like Earthlings being cited as a reliable source, I call that person out.

    In some cases I've had people argue against me that things like trapping and hunting aren't needed, and this belief they hold justifies them disrupting organized culling hunts.
    Terrierman sums up my feelings about this: http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.ca/...rving-for.html but even things like THIS are not proof enough for most vegans. I've linked news articles of trains being derailed because of an overpopulation of beavers and cited that as a reason for why trapping is necessary, and even THAT did not convince them.

    It's basically a fruitless effort but I won't stop because it attempts to harm what I do.
    Last edited by Gamedog; 08-01-2014 at 06:48 PM.

  4. #44
    Sanity Is For The Weak Accellerant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mythil View Post
    Eh it's okay, I think I'll just leave, probably the best option.
    Not even mad, rage quitting or anything so to speak, but it's obvious I'm not making any friends here or any friends with the admins (which can be disastrous in general). Already admitted at least part if not all is my fault.

    Thanks for trying at least. Hope you all, well stay safe and stuff.
    So you've butted head with some users, some being mods/admins, but that doesn't mean that a moderator/admin's going to banhammer you because you've strongly stated your beliefs. You have every right to fully believe in what you desire, just as how I believe that there was a man named Jesus in the past but that men in power have warped the currently established religions into their own ideals. It's expected that the more you butt heads with an opposing force, you bet they're going to come back at ya until someone decides to back down. The reality though, is that we all need to keep an open mind more so than ever before. What we define as what's "true" or "false" is always changing, especially now that all the information we could ever desire (both factual and inaccurate) is only a few key strokes away. I don't need to tell you how easy it is to make a biased video or blog post when you have the right images, music, links and words.

    While I'm not Vegan myself, I do approve of people choosing it as their own personal lifestyle. We're all different in our own ways and we need to walk the roads we choose to travel. I believe piņardilla said it best when it comes to ones choice of Dieting and can even be used in comparison to many other life choices:

    Quote Originally Posted by piņardilla View Post
    ... nutrition is complex and varies greatly from person to person, and you can't simply make a blanket recommendation for an extreme diet for everybody. Moderation, not elimination, should be the general strategy for most.
    Whether you choose to stay or leave, I still wish you safe travels.
    Last edited by Accellerant; 08-01-2014 at 07:17 PM. Reason: Word Choice

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamedog View Post
    So whenever I see misinformation being spread regarding veganism, or whenever I see something like Earthlings being cited as a reliable source, I call that person out.
    You seem pretty hung up on video veracity. I agree with you in that people should make sure what they are watching matches the reality of the situation. But at the same time a movie like Earthlings can and should push the inquisitive viewer to dig deeper and find the truths themselves. That's what it did for me. I refuse to believe the entire film is staged. If you were to remove the staged footage I bet you'd still be left with a sizable portrait of abuse and mistreatment.

    I read the article you linked about animal rights groups staging events and that was pretty eye opening! I might have guessed that happened, but seeing the evidence laid out was scary. I'll have to look into that more. Few of the cited staged videos were from factory farms however and that is arguably the most central industry in any discussion of veganism. Regardless of events in the fur industry thousands and thousands of animals are slaughtered for food every week. And their severely truncated life spans are almost invariably spent in horrific conditions. If they get to live at all (R.I.P Male chicks).
    Last edited by sassySloth; 08-01-2014 at 08:07 PM.
    Watch me swooce right in.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassySloth View Post
    You seem pretty hung up on video veracity. I agree with you in that people should make sure what they are watching matches the reality of the situation. But at the same time a movie like Earthlings can and should push the inquisitive viewer to dig deeper and find the truths themselves.
    Do you really think the target audience - gullible, sensitive people and vegans - are gonna do that?
    I question every single thing I'm provided regarding animal welfare, animal slaughter, veganism, etc.


    Quote Originally Posted by sassySloth View Post
    I read the article you linked about animal rights groups staging events and that was pretty eye opening! I might have guessed that happened, but seeing the evidence laid out was scary.
    It is really eye opening. I'm sure if you've seen Earthlings you've seen footage described in my link as well. I've watched all of the vegan documentaries and I used to be SUPER pro-PETA and lapped up every drop of their bullshit when I was younger, so I can recognize their footage when I see it.
    On top of that, I used to be super anti-trapping, anti-fur, anti-hunting, anti-taxidermy, and anti-fur farm.. I educated myself on all of these and I'm extremely pro all of them.
    Last edited by Gamedog; 08-01-2014 at 08:49 PM.

  7. #47
    Banned Benny Bunnycorn's Avatar
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    And of course, meat-eating fucktards with their whole "Humans HAVE to eat meat, and vegans should be FORCED to eat it" type comments. And you wonder why I'm ashamed to be an omnivore. Whether we eat meat or not should be OPTIONAL, NOT forced on us! Plus, I think the way you guys are treating Mythril is COMPLETELY out of bounds. Ugh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamedog View Post
    On top of that, I used to be super anti-trapping, anti-fur, anti-hunting, anti-taxidermy, and anti-fur farm.. I educated myself on all of these and I'm extremely pro all of them.
    I've "educated" myself, and I am STILL anti-all of that. General rule of thumb, "Animal Welfarists" are human loving villains who only care about their own species, and will make up ANYTHING just to justify the bad things we do. Plus, they spend more time trying to piss off REAL animal lovers and activists than they do helping them themselves.
    Last edited by Benny Bunnycorn; 08-01-2014 at 10:11 PM.

  8. #48
    That's me! Hewge's Avatar

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    Oh... forcing?
    So, like... people are literally shoving meat into your mouth? I don't know, I've never experienced people forcing meat into me. Or at least, not the food kind. x]

    You guys ever considered just doing what you please, and not caring what others think? Mind blowing disposition, am I right?

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Bunnycorn View Post
    And of course, meat-eating fucktards with their whole "Humans HAVE to eat meat, and vegans should be FORCED to eat it" type comments.
    No one has said this.
    Literally no one has said this.
    If I am mistaken, please show me where this has occurred, but not even TA has said this.

    Did you actually read the thread?
    Resident Koopa Trash

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hewge View Post
    Oh... forcing?
    So, like... people are literally shoving meat into your mouth? I don't know, I've never experienced people forcing meat into me. Or at least, not the food kind. x]

    You guys ever considered just doing what you please, and not caring what others think? Mind blowing disposition, am I right?
    You would be surprised how many times meat lovers and quote/unquote "animal welfarists" go around telling people they HAVE to eat meat.

 

 

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