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  1. #61
    Banned Tycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by piņardilla View Post
    Dude only wrote a 140-page manifesto about how women are evil for not throwing sex at him. And spent over a year posting on a misogynist forum about getting revenge on women and making a future where women fear men again, which did nothing to so much as raise the eyebrows of the other residents there. And has since had multiple people on reddit saying he's a hero and calling for copycat violence. Gee, I can't imagine why anyone would draw a connection to MRA bullshit at all.
    Except for the fact that all the MHRM sites I have seen do not advocate for violence against women and wholeheartedly condemn Elliot Rodger's actions. Redditards notwithstanding. He was connected to PUA and Anti-PUA forums and channels, neither of which is part of the MHRM and at times are in stark opposition to the MHRM.

    This guy was mentally ill, undeniably so. He hated EVERYONE and resented them for having things he felt entitled to (because he was a spoiled rich kid and nuts), and wanted to kill other men as well (and he did, he killed 4 men and 2 women plus all the other men and women he injured). He was misogynistic, yes, but he was also misanthropic (I will stop short of calling him misandristic simply because misanthropic sums everything up).

    Misogynist != MRA. There are some shitheads in the MHRM, thankfully few of them in important positions. If one is going to condemn a group based upon a few bad apples within it, one must also necessarily examine the feminists. In the case of the feminists, it's not just a few bad people who have donned the mantle of a movement, it's the figureheads and leaders that are rotten to the core. Are there good feminists? Of course. There are people in the feminist movement who don't buy into the hateful rhetoric of Andrea Dworkin, Mary Daly, Susan Brownmiller, Mary Koss, Marilyn French, Valerie Solanas, Gilly Cooper, and a host of others. There are genuine equity-feminists. But they share their movement with some highly toxic people, and pushing the toxic people out is not easy when all one has to do is say "I'm part of X group" to basically become part of X group.

  2. #62
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    Tycho stahp you're not allowed to criticise feminism or point out any of its hypocrisy/wrongdoings/widespread hate

    Feminism = good

    MRA = evil, because the feminists said so

    Seeee? its simple :^)

    It's much better to stick to this solution because lets face it associating this deed with mental illness is too hard to think about and doesn't make feminist ideology go viral
    Last edited by FishNChips; 05-31-2014 at 08:02 AM.

  3. #63
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    It's actually kind of funny, many people in the MHRM used to be (or some even still consider themselves to be) feminists. Equity feminism gets along surprisingly well with most MHRM thinking. It's when you start getting into "gender warrior" shit on either side that things get unpleasant. There are people for whom it is NOT in THEIR interests to see the two sides getting along, and so they keep stirring the pot to keep them at each others' throats.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamedog View Post
    I think that was actually discredited.
    I would believe he had something like antisocial personality disorder.

    He was prescribed Risperidone but refused to take it, however he did take Xanax and whatnot.
    Ah, didn't know this. Thanks.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeenageAngst View Post
    We can't blame the SSRIs in this case. It was waaaaay too premeditated for this to be some kind of medication-induced thing.

    Oddly I do see a little of myself in this guy too, and I think deep down that's what scares me the most. That nugget in the back of my brain that tells me that I'm not good enough, that makes me angry and vengeful at people more successful than me.
    Oh I wasn't blaming SSRIs, I take Xanax and it doesn't send me on murderous rampages. I was just pointing out that the evidence of pills and being prescribed pills shows that mental illness may have taken a part in it all. (Untreated mental illness at that)

  6. #66
    Retired Staff piņardilla's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycho View Post
    This guy was mentally ill, undeniably so. He hated EVERYONE and resented them for having things he felt entitled to (because he was a spoiled rich kid and nuts), and wanted to kill other men as well (and he did, he killed 4 men and 2 women plus all the other men and women he injured). He was misogynistic, yes, but he was also misanthropic (I will stop short of calling him misandristic simply because misanthropic sums everything up).
    He killed the three men in his house because he needed them "out of the way" to make their house a base of operations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elliot Rodgers
    I knew that when the Day of Retribution came, I would have to kill my housemates to get them out of the way. If they were pleasant to live with, I would regret having to kill them, but due to their behavior I now had no regrets about such a prospect.
    He didn't like them, but it's irrelevant, because he admits he would have done it regardless. The fourth man was nearby the sorority house with his girlfriend, who suffered a graze wound. You don't go to a sorority to target men, and if not for a locked door, the casualties would be much more slanted in the other direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibby View Post
    Tycho stahp you're not allowed to criticise feminism or point out any of its hypocrisy/wrongdoings/widespread hate

    Feminism = good

    MRA = evil, because the feminists said so

    Seeee? its simple :^)

    It's much better to stick to this solution because lets face it associating this deed with mental illness is too hard to think about and doesn't make feminist ideology go viral
    Riiight. Similarly, we can entirely divorce Ted Kaczynski from the rhetoric of the anti-government militia movement, because he was schizophrenic.

    Fuck that. Having mental health problems doesn't make someone cease to be a person. Mental illness alone does not make a terrorist. To go on a murder spree like that, you have to be convinced your targets lack worth as human beings and are deserving of vigilante justice. Within the "manosphere", Rodgers found such an ideology in spades.
         
       
    Now,
              let's go play, together...
       
    Together under the
                     clearest of
    blue skies.

  7. #67
    Senior Torrijos_sama's Avatar
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    Only 140 pages as a manifesto?

    That's to be expected from a beta.

    Now, Anders Behring Breivik was pretty 1337, with that 1,518 page manifesto.
    Last edited by Torrijos_sama; 05-31-2014 at 09:47 PM.

  8. #68
    Banned Tycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by piņardilla View Post
    He killed the three men in his house because he needed them "out of the way" to make their house a base of operations.
    He repeatedly states in his manifesto that he resents other men and the success they have had.

    Quote Originally Posted by piņardilla View Post
    He didn't like them, but it's irrelevant, because he admits he would have done it regardless. The fourth man was nearby the sorority house with his girlfriend, who suffered a graze wound. You don't go to a sorority to target men, and if not for a locked door, the casualties would be much more slanted in the other direction.
    I don't doubt that he would have done it regardless, nor do I doubt that the PRIMARY target of his resentment was women. That said, he definitely hated more than just women, his manifesto and his other rantings make that clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by piņardilla View Post
    Riiight. Similarly, we can entirely divorce Ted Kaczynski from the rhetoric of the anti-government militia movement, because he was schizophrenic.

    Fuck that. Having mental health problems doesn't make someone cease to be a person. Mental illness alone does not make a terrorist. To go on a murder spree like that, you have to be convinced your targets lack worth as human beings and are deserving of vigilante justice. Within the "manosphere", Rodgers found such an ideology in spades.
    Mental health problems do not make someone cease to be a person, but Elliot Rodgers was a person. He did a terrible thing, but he was ultimately human. I would not call him a terrorist, as his intent was not to terrorize, it was to destroy. To go on a spree like he did, you don't have to be convinced that your targets lack worth as human beings - you simply have to put yourself above everyone else. It's a common misconception to think that killers view their victims as less than human - far from it. They simply view themselves as being worthy of being the arbiter of life and death, which is certainly symptomatic of a seriously ill person.

    There is a thing that people do, whenever they hear about a horrible person doing horrible things - at the risk of someone saying "Godwin", I will use Hitler as an example. They mistakenly think that he was an inhuman monster, that his humanity was less than their own because of his actions. This is simply a way to distance themselves from him - they tell themselves "I could never do what that man did, because I'm not an inhuman monster like him". They're right and wrong at the same time. They probably could never do the horrible things that Hitler did, because they're not horrible and twisted. His humanity has absolutely nothing to do with it. We're an extraordinarily vain species, and we assume that whenever someone does something awful they must not really be "human" - they're an "inhuman monster". Every human being has potential for good or evil. Some are certainly more predisposed to evil, either by flawed upbringings, mental infirmity, or any number of other factors - but good or evil, we are all ultimately human.

    As for the "manosphere", that term is a massive blanket generalization of what is an incredibly diverse bunch of groups (some of which are in definite opposition to one another). To assert that Rodgers now should be considered the sole representative and condemnation of the MHRM is as irresponsible and untruthful as asserting that Valerie Solanas should be considered the sole representative and condemnation of feminism.

    EDIT: As a side note, I'm personally familiar with Risperdal, and that shit is an antipsychotic. It's also pretty goddamn potent. If they prescribed that to him, he probably had a BIG screw loose.
    Last edited by Tycho; 06-01-2014 at 04:43 AM.

  9. #69
    Senior Infestissumam's Avatar
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    Also, this guy wasn't insane. Insanity would imply that he wouldn't have any control of his actions, but he clearly displays planning before he goes through with it.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infestissumam View Post
    Also, this guy wasn't insane. Insanity would imply that he wouldn't have any control of his actions, but he clearly displays planning before he goes through with it.
    Insane people plan things and have control of their actions, Armchair Psychiatrist. The consciousness behind that is what defines someone as being insane. An insane person can believe you are a reptilian infiltrator, can plan to catch you and can cut off your head, forcing you to reveal your true form and giving him your powers (in his insane mind).

    He will have control of both his actions and his planning, but he will not be operating within the realm of sanity and reality when he does so. Insanity does not denote a lack of control or planning, it denotes a lack of sanity (e.g. grasp on reality and/or knowledge of right and wrong).
    Last edited by Fiz; 06-02-2014 at 07:14 PM. Reason: removing insulting image

 

 

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