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  1.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Term View Post
    I did misunderstand you and yeah that appears to be something we could do. Honestly I'd think (general) would speak for itself but if people are that confused by it we could add the SFW on there or something similar.
    I'd be for it, but I wonder what kinds of unintended effects labeling it as General (SFW) would have. 'cus then the first thought that would [should] go through someone's head is, "Is my image SFW? Yes/no." Granted this could be very subjective, but it could introduce a relative norm to the General category that would start pushing alleged fetish work into Moderate by simply being something you wouldn't want your boss at work to see you browsing. This is despite the fact that by current rules, it'd still probably be okay in General, albeit I realize that's one of the big arguments in this topic.

    Of course this is just hypothetical, but I figured it'd be worth mentioning.

  2. #192
    It is a good point, and yeah it's really complicated to approach.

    I have a couple of thoughts on it, but I have no idea how to organize them. Mostly because my personal idea of what "general" should be doesn't really match up with what the website defines as general, but I do like to try to apply things by the rule rather than my personal opinion.

    The way I figured my most recent suggestion is that it falls onto the artists intentions, and if the artists doesn't think their work is appropriate for someone under the age of 13 to look at, than I don't think they should have to rate it as general.

    I also feel like it's a bigger issue when something is mis-rated too low than when it is mis-rated too high. I don't want to encourage mis-rating things in either direction, but there is a magnitude of difference.
    Fish heads! Fish heads! Rolly polly fish heads! Fish heads! Fish heads! Eat them up! Yum!

  3. #193
    Senior Rilvor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rory View Post
    something you wouldn't want your boss at work to see you browsing.
    Well yeah, that's outright the definition of "Safe For Work". Of course we could argue sites like this are NSFW by default because the front page is a minefield of un/intentional ratings but that's playing the What If game a bit extensively.

  4.   This is the last staff post in this thread.   #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Rilvor View Post
    Well yeah, that's outright the definition of "Safe For Work". Of course we could argue sites like this are NSFW by default because the front page is a minefield of un/intentional ratings but that's playing the What If game a bit extensively.
    The point was General and General SFW would mean two very different things in terms of Weasyl. I don't think transitioning into a General SFW would be a bad thing at all. Our current guidelines wouldn't be sufficient to support it though, so that brings us back to the best way to establish and enforce a norm through the rules. What gets bumped, what lines get drawn, etc.

  5. #195
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    i can see where you're going with that. Unless things are outlined in no uncertain terms there's always someone willing to argue endlessly over it.

    Given that the site's in Beta still, it seems like it wouldn't be too much to ask of people to tolerate a few changes here and there while you guys hammer out the way you want the site to be.

  6. #196
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    I was originally in favor of a fetish checkbox, but after reading the entire thread, I have revised my opinion and want to edit my reply.

    I think preset filters would be helpful. I also liked the idea of a welcome email, to let new users know about tagging, filters, and other features we have.

    Since new accounts are already set to General by default, I don't think we need to block any tags by default, just let new users know about filtering.

    For advertising online, DA and facebook have been mentioned. There are artists on tumblr too. I agree that advertising in person is better than web banners, but web banners are better than nothing.

    For advertising at cons, if you can't go yourself, maybe put out an invitation to the weasyl community to see if someone else would like to help out. I can't afford to go to cons outside my city, but there are a couple cons in my city, so I can attend those without having to pay hotel and travel fees. Maybe there are other people who are in similar situations, being local to the cons you want to target.

    Another thought for the advertising budget; is crowdfunding an option?

    But, although advertising is an important topic to discuss, and someone should definitely work on a plan for that, I think that maybe it would be better to wait a while with that; get groups up and running first, and that will make the site more apealing to potential users.
    Last edited by catwithpen; 05-10-2014 at 11:45 PM.

  7. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenith View Post
    You know what I think could help the front page not present as a furry website, is just having it show a mix of the latest uploads with a certain tags. Like a good starting mix would probably be something like Anthro, Human, Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Fanart, Anime.

    I just searched those tags right now, and Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Fanart, and Anime all have a decent mix of humans, creatures, and furries.

    It may also indirectly encourage people to tag their work too.
    I also like this idea.

  8. #198
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    Weasyl needs a clearer vision

    The reason this is coming up is that the vision thus-communicated does not match up with reality. Weasyl is a furry site. Most of its staff, user-base and content is furry. Why? Non-furs - both artists and art consumers - are already well-served by a plethora of sites such as deviantART, ConceptArt, Elfwood, Fanart Central, etc., many of which have topic specialities that tend to concentrate fans. Furry was really the only focus this site had, and the primary group it was advertised to, so naturally it was the audience it attracted.

    And that's fine, even if it wasn't your intention. You play the hand that you're dealt - but that's not all you have to do. Take SoFurry. It started out as a porn-heavy story archive, Yiffstar, but it's rebranded and moved towards being a general artistic and social scene for furs - dragging some users kicking and screaming along the way. It could easily have focussed more on the writing (a-la FurRag), and that would have been just as good a decision, as long as it was made with purpose.

    What to do? Weasyl needs a new, clearer vision - one not so broad as to cover the entire creative spectrum - and better value propositions than a staff code of conduct or an extra (confusing) rating level.1 Once you have the former, you can implement the latter through technical or policy means. Without it, you'll most likely muddle along, gaining users here and there when similar sites have issues, but losing most over time as people look at their stats, ask "what's the point?", and wander off to busier or more focussed communities.

    So do you want to be the next FA, or at least a direct competitor? It's the way you've been heading. But it'll be a long, hard road, and you might not like where you end up. You've already got most of the early adopters - either you slug it out over the next decade, or FA dies and you get flooded with more users than you're ready for (one reason they've had such issues along the way). Forget about eliminating fetishes or random photography - you'll have to be at least as inclusive as them, content-wise, maybe more so. People don't like moving to a site where their cherished content isn't wanted. Plan to add ~10x current capacity - FA has over ten million active submissions and ~10k active hourly users.

    Perhaps you want a more focussed site. You've got your starter community, now you just need to grow it in the right directions. Figure out what you care about most, and focus! You want to appreciate art? Figure out what the "best" art is through programmatic or manual means, and feature it prominently! Right now the front page has "Latest Uploads" and "Random Art", which isn't going anyone to think that Weasyl has higher ambitions than being a mostly-furry art art-dump. (Yes, there's "Critique Wanted", but it's below the fold.)

    What if you want the site to revolve around particular themes - or, for some reason, you still want to get away from being a furry-centric site? The path ahead has been suggested: create featured sections for such material, hope artists realise posting to them will result in more attention, and promote it in the relevant areas. Or perhaps you're more interested in artistic development, like Yerf and ArtSpots? Give critique space above the fold, link in the relevant forums, and recruit staff members to participate.

    None of this requires massive development effort. It does require Weasyl to pick a path - either collectively, or by fiat. Maybe it comes down to the people paying the bills saying "this is what we're going to be". After that, figuring out what you're going to do - and, more importantly, not do - should be much simpler. But the vision has to come first.

    1 Collections are a nice idea, but the implementation needs to be perfect and it's a long way from that. Today it relies on both parties being on the site and the artist knowing your username and bothering to submit it and the work. I can't put a work I know is mine into a collection, or even send an automated request to do so, nor can I upload a piece into my collection on behalf of an artist who could claim it and display it themselves without reuploading.

  9. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenReaper View Post
    Perhaps you want a more focussed site. You've got your starter community, now you just need to grow it in the right directions. Figure out what you care about most, and focus! You want to appreciate art? Figure out what the "best" art is through programmatic or manual means, and feature it prominently! Right now the front page has "Latest Uploads" and "Random Art", which isn't going anyone to think that Weasyl has higher ambitions than being a mostly-furry art art-dump. (Yes, there's "Critique Wanted", but it's below the fold.)
    This. But when you try to put it into more concrete words you're snuffed out by a million little voices going "But that's unfair because popular artists are more popular and clearly they don't deserve any more recognition for the amount of quality they put in their work. We don't want art to be featured unless it's our own!"

    I cannot understand where the argument that popular art is found anyway comes from, when all you can do on the site for the moment is a random ordering, making things seem like it's just an image board without the threads. e621 maybe?

  10. #200
    I've been reading through this thread off-and-on for a few weeks now, and I'd like to put my word in for a "featured art" suggestion (mentioned earlier in the thread). If Weasyl's goal is to be more a general art website, then I feel like a "featured artwork" section on the main page would be a step in that direction. Like, put a "featured artwork" bar visible either above "Latest Uploads" or "Random Art." That way you could show off the variety of artwork we have to prospective users (who might be otherwise put off by some of the furry and fetish work here*) and promote the artwork of loyal users. Win-win!

    And we really do have quite a variety, it just gets buried very quickly under "Latest." The features could be suggested by users and/or hand-picked by the staff and remain visible for a day/week/etc... however long until the staff feels the exposure is sufficient, and then swap it out for new featured work.

    *For the record, I'm a non-furry/fetish artist, but the stuff doesn't bother me; I've been around the internet long enough to know what it is. Also, apologies for lumping furry and fetish art together. I know they're not the same thing, though occasionally they overlap. I'm just basing my remarks off the comments in this thread, which in general don't seem to want Weasyl to be mistaken for a furry fetish-centered community.

    Quote Originally Posted by xarg View Post
    This. But when you try to put it into more concrete words you're snuffed out by a million little voices going "But that's unfair because popular artists are more popular and clearly they don't deserve any more recognition for the amount of quality they put in their work. We don't want art to be featured unless it's our own!"
    That'll happen, but it won't necessarily happen right away. Most growing online art communities are really receptive of "featured art" systems--at first. The complaining usually sets in after the success of featured work, and people realize that their work hasn't been featured yet haha XD

    To limit complaints, the "featured art" could only be a single row tall, like the "Random Art" section, so people wouldn't complain that there's too much "popular" artwork taking attention away from the two-row "Latest" bar**

    **This is how the main page appears on my browser. I don't know if other users are getting a smaller or larger number of images under "latest" and "random" on their browsers/monitors. So my comments above might be irrelevant.

    Have the feature display some furry, some non-furry artwork, music, crafts, etc... so that Weasyl's furry audience doesn't feel excluded, and so prospective users see that we take all types of artwork. And while I think art features work best when they're prominently displayed at the top of the page, we could limit the inevitable complaints of "too popular!" by placing the bar below "Latest." I think the features would still have to be somewhere towards the top of the page, to encourage people to view it without having to scroll down, whether they're prospective members or long-time members looking for something new.

    Granted this suggestion would be a lot of work, as staff would have an extra set of responsibilities on their plate (which artwork to feature, how long should it be displayed, dealing with inevitable complaints about which artwork has been featured, etc...), but it could be a step towards expanding Weasyl for a broader audience.
    Last edited by Nattles; 05-13-2014 at 03:46 PM. Reason: typoooooooos

 

 

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