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  1. #31
    Premium User QT Melon's Avatar


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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleu View Post
    :I

    Visual/Spatial - Involves visual perception of the environment, the ability to create and manipulate mental images, and the orientation of the body in space.
    Did you know that most artists don't really have a clear image of a piece they will create? They have an idea. There's art that purposely distorts spacial relationships, and it's not because one is particularly aware of it.

    Verbal/Linguistic - Involves reading, writing, speaking, and conversing in one's own or foreign languages.
    Which can help but still needs to be developed for creative writing. It still takes a lot of research at times to write a good story.

    Logical/Mathematical - Involves number and computing skills, recognizing patterns and relationships, timeliness and order, and the ability to solve different kinds of problems through logic.
    Oddly enough, music which is considered creative is also very logical mathematical. So is the talent attributed to a musician who can logically figure out a score, or is it the person that creates one? It may be easy to say both, but then put people up who already trained to understand things, you can no longer measure this accurately, because the person who may contain the ability may be outdone by someone who just practiced more.

    Bodily/Kinesthetic - Involves physical coordination and dexterity, using fine and gross motor skills, and expressing oneself or learning through physical activities.
    There is actual evidence about high responders being genetic. But what levels of coordination and dexterity are measured for art? What I mean is people were looking for correlation between handwriting and artmaking, and finding ...a lot of it wasn't even related.
    Musical - Involves understanding and expressing oneself through music and rhythmic movements or dance, or composing, playing, or conducting music.
    Which music is also mathematical...

    Interpersonal - Involves understanding how to communicate with and understand other people and how to work collaboratively.

    Intrapersonal - Involves understanding one's inner world of emotions and thoughts, and growing in the ability to control them and work with them consciously.
    Which may be good for?? Being more patient with your mistakes??

    Naturalist - Involves understanding the natural world of plants and animals, noticing their characteristics, and categorizing them; it generally involves keen observation and the ability to classify other things as well.
    Which is all well and good for possibly a visual library, but it still is a lot of work to translate that on paper.

    See again art isn't some simple thing that you have talent for. You can't really measure these as a way for a "Talented" artist
    I guess to make it simple, is that's all well and good but because there's a lot more to the art making process it becomes particularly useless in wondering whether or not it is attributed to talent in the long run, because Solving a math problem is a specific task.

    Art making (especially if we narrow it down to visual art like illustration) can be attributed to many things, cartooning, portraits and not all successful illustrators or musicians can be called such but it can be either hard work, lightning in a bottle type of success (dumb luck), or just promotion by political forces/economic ones.

  2. #32
    Senior Damian's Avatar
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    I never said all of those were attributed to art. Just that those are different intelligences :I I'm also not saying that work doesn't factor in either. Everything requires work. Just that to some it comes easier to others. I don't know why you're trying to argue that talent doesn't exist when certain intelligences to which include artistic intelligence.
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  3. #33
    Regular Tica's Avatar
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    Music is only mathematical if you're composing via sheet music... improvising by ear is a whole different beast methinks.

    Things like fine motor control, visual spatial skills, and hand-eye coordination *are* important to the artistic process. And truth is some people are better at these things than others.

  4. #34
    Premium User QT Melon's Avatar


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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleu View Post
    I never said all of those were attributed to art. Just that those are different intelligences :I I'm also not saying that work doesn't factor in either. Everything requires work. Just that to some it comes easier to others. I don't know why you're trying to argue that talent doesn't exist when certain intelligences to which include artistic intelligence.
    I said that the abilities don't matter. They aren't measurable in the long run. You can't tell if someone's result was due to those attributes or hard work. You aren't the other person, you need to worry about your own progress. Most of the time you wouldn't even know anyways because you're not sitting there on a daily basis seeing if someone caught on to it faster, or they practiced it a bit more. So why worry about it? It's still all hard work that really triumphs. There's too many factors to learn to wonder if a particular attribute is a factor to a successful piece of work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tica View Post
    Music is only mathematical if you're composing via sheet music... improvising by ear is a whole different beast methinks.

    Things like fine motor control, visual spatial skills, and hand-eye coordination *are* important to the artistic process. And truth is some people are better at these things than others.
    It's more than that. You keep note of beats when working by ear. You're still doing math to keep track of rhythm. This also helps if you don't have a bass drum that is usually around to keep the beat. Now it may not be entirely math when you're trying to work with tones. But math is still important whether by ear or sheet music.

    Not exactly. You work in large brush strokes if you're a painter. There are people out there that don't even paint with their hands anymore. When Frazetta had a stroke, he worked with his other hand. When Francis Tsai could no longer use his hands, he kept switching from feet, to eventually his eyes. Whether someone has better motor control doesn't matter because there are different types of painting techniques.
    Last edited by QT Melon; 02-19-2014 at 10:14 AM.

  5. #35
    Premium User FishNChips's Avatar

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    I don't think one can deny that if you put two people together in the same room and make them work for the same amount of time on the same subject on the same point in their progression, their progress will vary.

    But it's still work.

    Work isn't a factor, it's pretty much the core component to progression. To say that you have no "talent" is more of an excuse. If your attributes are lacking, you just work a bit harder than the other guy depending on what your problem is.

  6. #36
    Premium User QT Melon's Avatar


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gibby View Post
    Work isn't a factor, it's pretty much the core component to progression. To say that you have no "talent" is more of an excuse. If your attributes are lacking, you just work a bit harder than the other guy depending on what your problem is.
    Yes, and what is sad is that people will call creatives "Talented" and not use the word "work" or hard working. I think that's one of the reasons it creates the idea that it's "just something you have" rarely have other careers been called talented. You aren't a talented lawyer or fast food worker, but you may be a good or hard working one.

  7. #37
    Senior Damian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QT Melon View Post
    Yes, and what is sad is that people will call creatives "Talented" and not use the word "work" or hard working. I think that's one of the reasons it creates the idea that it's "just something you have" rarely have other careers been called talented. You aren't a talented lawyer or fast food worker, but you may be a good or hard working one.
    I still think you're just not grasping it.

    It's not the work that is the talent. It's how fast someone is able to grasp an understanding of it. If someone works less than the other but achieves the same result, that is because they have talent.
    We all have our demons. If we're not fighting them, then we've befriended them.

  8. #38
    Premium User QT Melon's Avatar


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    It doesn't matter because there are too many factors to art. So what you can draw a face faster or got it faster than someone else, there are plenty of other things that will slow you down.

  9. #39
    Regular Tica's Avatar
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    what about artistic vision?

    inspiration?

  10. #40
    I think people are purely thinking about making nicely rendered pictures and such, which they see as requiring 'talent', which has been established is not 'real'.

    If you look at a lot of modern art, especially sculptures, you don't necessarily need a true skill of making a beautifully rendered picture. In fact, it's more just letting yourself go and making whatever with paints, ink, etc. on the canvas. ANYONE can do this. ANYONE. It's just becoming comfortable with yourself enough to let yourself go, overcoming the fear that it's not meant to be perfect or follow a certain step by step process.

    Found art also does not require 'talent' in what people are describing. You don't have to make something from scratch for it to be art. Some artists just find objects, put them together, and give it a meaning that is relative to the sculpture they've created. Sometimes it's just a bowl with fake bread in it (yes, I have see that in an art museum).

    Video art: I wish I remembered his name, but he video taped himself holding his breath for as long as he can. The video was showcased in a dimly lit room with a bust sculpture of a greek man (or god). When the man in the video couldn't hold his breath any longer, he would let out a loud gasping sound for air. Scared the shit out of everyone. The purpose of this was to try and obtain longevity and become immortal, like the statue. This requires a basic editing and video recording skill. Another video was of a man being filmed from the waist down, falling back into a wall, repeatedly for over an hour. Again, this requires a basic editing and video recording skill, but this is still ART.


    Inspiration / artistic vision is best described as the modern art I talked about above. It's nothing more than saying 'you know what, let's do this'. It's knowing not to follow a set of rules / boundaries that we usually come across in life, it's stepping out of a structure and cookie-cutter way of thinking. It doesn't even have to be related to art. It's called thinking outside the box. Some people are inspired by music to draw, to dance, or to make more music and sing. Some people are inspired to write, some people are inspired to go out on a walk, to do something in their lives that makes them happy, clean their room, redesign their bedroom, etc. It is not limited to artistic inspiration only. It's just what inspires someone to do something, and how (and if) they execute it.

    Old people, young people, middle aged people, etc. all have creativity, can all make art, can do anything if they really try. There's places that offer party art classes or pottery classes. You aren't expected to have a perfect painting or pottery piece, but you learn how it's made, the techniques, etc., and if someone really likes it they might further their knowledge and increase their skill through PRACTICE, TRIAL AND ERROR.

    I think people in this conversation are doing the thing art is not meant to do: limiting perspective. Stop thinking about that beautiful portrait someone painted. That's not the only aspect of art, and it does not require talent but skills. They made the decision to further those skills and learn. If they didn't, they wouldn't have made such a pretty picture. You do not need a specific set of skills to do art. You just need your mind, and to not be afraid to fail.

 

 

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