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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: [Problem] Trolltaggers

  1.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #41
    [Logic is Erratic] Taw's Avatar
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    This is getting quite off-topic guys. If you wish to discuss things between each other, taking it to private messages may be a better idea. I'd rather not close this thread off because it's getting derailed and such. There are definitely some good ideas mentioned in this thread, some of which I wouldn't mind being implemented, personally.

    Term made a good post on how to currently handle any problems with people purposely abusing tags here for those who may have missed it: https://forums.weasyl.com/vbulletin/...ll=1#post42633

  2. #42
    Regular Zeta Neubourn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taw View Post
    This is getting quite off-topic guys. If you wish to discuss things between each other, taking it to private messages may be a better idea. I'd rather not close this thread off because it's getting derailed and such. There are definitely some good ideas mentioned in this thread, some of which I wouldn't mind being implemented, personally.

    Term made a good post on how to currently handle any problems with people purposely abusing tags here for those who may have missed it: https://forums.weasyl.com/vbulletin/...ll=1#post42633
    Right, right... I apologize to everyone. This isn't a place for my opinions and I guess I was being brash. Internets and what not. Anyways, back on topic...

    Is there a feature that lets one turn off the ability for other people to tag? Maybe some people wouldn't want that at all. I know there's an option to prevent tag deletion, but what about tag... addition? Or maybe a automated system to prevent certain words from being used? Maaaybe?

  3. #43
    Regular xarg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta Neubourn View Post
    Is there a feature that lets one turn off the ability for other people to tag? Maybe some people wouldn't want that at all. I know there's an option to prevent tag deletion, but what about tag... addition? Or maybe a automated system to prevent certain words from being used? Maaaybe?
    As has already been covered in many posts earlier in the thread, allowing someone to turn off tag suggestions completely would defeat the entire purpose of the system. An artist may not want to label their art as everything that it seems, I know it may be a question of principles for someone to avoid using certain labels. However, in the best interest of the community everything should be tagged as accurately as possible, which is why it is a good thing to allow the community to rectify any missing tags that they might see in the picture.

    One thing that did come to mind is that it might be worth considering disallowing the addition of entirely new tags, i.e. tags that do not appear in the system yet, to people other than the artist. Or at least restrict addition of such tags to accounts older than a certain threshold, such as 2 weeks.

  4. #44
    Regular Zeta Neubourn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xarg View Post
    As has already been covered in many posts earlier in the thread, allowing someone to turn off tag suggestions completely would defeat the entire purpose of the system. An artist may not want to label their art as everything that it seems, I know it may be a question of principles for someone to avoid using certain labels. However, in the best interest of the community everything should be tagged as accurately as possible, which is why it is a good thing to allow the community to rectify any missing tags that they might see in the picture.

    One thing that did come to mind is that it might be worth considering disallowing the addition of entirely new tags, i.e. tags that do not appear in the system yet, to people other than the artist. Or at least restrict addition of such tags to accounts older than a certain threshold, such as 2 weeks.
    Why not have the option? It would leave tags solely up to the artist posting. After all, shouldn't it be the artists call on what to tag their own art? I mean, there's nothing stopping the original poster to put jokes tags or lack of tags, anyways... or from removing the new tags added by others, for that matter. Why not save time and just let the artist disable outside tagging? It would be optional, so people that do like the tag system can leave that enabled and people that don't want to risk being trolltagged to disable it.

    Or maybe include the disabling of tag addition on individual pictures. Maybe someone would have a picture that means a lot to them and they don't want people teasing at it and they'd like to disable that kind of thing.

    Or... why not have a "Friends Only" option to go with that as well? Mutual friends are only allowed to edit their friends tags and what not.

    The threshold idea is a pretty good one, though. That'd be a good call. It'd detour some lazier troll types that don't wanna wait around or make more accounts ahead of time.

    Just spitballing though! :U Don't mind me.

  5. #45
    I think disabling tagging runs counter to what the website wants to do with them. Not to mention tags are really important to the filter system, which is good to both blacklist and whitelist, and won't work if people refuse to tag stuff. And the level of granularity granted by being able to sort things by tag seems to me to be one of the big selling points of the website right now.

    I could see being able to disable tags for individual works, but only if it also limited who would see those things. Like only friends/viewers will be able to see any work that has tagging disabled. Works with tags disabled wouldn't show up for those browsing submissions/characters/journals, or those who aren't logged on.

  6. #46
    Regular Zeta Neubourn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenith View Post
    I think disabling tagging runs counter to what the website wants to do with them. Not to mention tags are really important to the filter system, which is good to both blacklist and whitelist, and won't work if people refuse to tag stuff. And the level of granularity granted by being able to sort things by tag seems to me to be one of the big selling points of the website right now.

    I could see being able to disable tags for individual works, but only if it also limited who would see those things. Like only friends/viewers will be able to see any work that has tagging disabled. Works with tags disabled wouldn't show up for those browsing submissions/characters/journals, or those who aren't logged on.
    Naw, I understand that it'd be against what the site is going for, but if people are gonna get offended by troll tags, I don't see why not. I'm not saying to disable tags completely. It would only be limited to where the poster of the art could change them... you know, like all the other user-generated content sites out there. Yeah, it's boring and against Weasyl's original vision, but why not let the user have that flexibility? At least until they have a better idea to control trolltags... besides, like I said, we have the option to disable deletion of tags... why not the option to disable addition of them?

    But on the other hand, as you said, it'd make white/blacklists useless if people don't tag proper. Why not let people report incorrect tags, in that case? That could cover trolltags of both internal sources, being people that make joke pictures and tag them wrongly for laughs, and external sources, being what the OP mentioned.

    I 'unno. It kinda seems like we're either gonna have trolls tagging things or people not tagging things correctly at this rate... unless someone has a pretty solid idea, but I think it's impossible to prevent trolls from trolling, really. :U Outside of banning and ignoring, but I've been down that route already, so nevermind that... but I'm out of ideas. :U

  7. #47
    Well if you want to have a fatalistic approach that's fine, but it isn't very constructive, especially since you feel the need to discount anything others say so eh whatever.

  8. #48
    Regular Zeta Neubourn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenith View Post
    Well if you want to have a fatalistic approach that's fine, but it isn't very constructive, especially since you feel the need to discount anything others say so eh whatever.
    Oh wow. Ooookay, calm down, eh? :P The post in response to xarg was suggestions. I even agreed with one of them, being the threshold idea. That was a good idea and it'd help a lot. I even agreed with you, too in my response and was offering some counter suggestions. It's not like I run the place, so... I'm just spitballing, like I said, but hey... I'll leave it be, since people seem to disagree. That's fine by me. :U

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenith View Post
    I could see being able to disable tags for individual works, but only if it also limited who would see those things. Like only friends/viewers will be able to see any work that has tagging disabled. Works with tags disabled wouldn't show up for those browsing submissions/characters/journals, or those who aren't logged on.
    This could actually be a good compromise. If you disallow tags to be added by the general public, then the general public should not be subjected to the art in the public listings. It could maybe still be shown on the artist's profile gallery, but it wouldn't show up in the browse listing and general search results.

    As for Zeta, it's usually considered polite forum etiquette to read and comprehend the discussion that has already taken place in a thread to avoid bringing up things that have already been suggested and countered, especially if you don't add any new points to the discussion.

  10. #50
    Also putting my two cents in that a notification system (one with the ability to be disabled if you wished) would probably work well. I also think Weasyl could also stand to simply develop a strong community that's dedicated to tagging properly, like e621/e926 has (mostly posting here because I'm surprised they haven't been mentioned). Whenever I think of a good tagging system that serves me well, they do a pretty good job over there for a site that uses community tagging. It took them awhile to get there with a lot of big debates, but it's been smooth for awhile afaik as just a simple browser. Of course, that community just comes with time, but the more attractive we make Weasyl to prospective artists and browsers, the quicker that time may come.

 

 

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