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  1. #21
    Senior Kasune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rain View Post

    This is not to say that everybody has had the exact same reaction as I have, but the mentality of “being bullied makes you tougher!” explicitly ignores the fact that the human psyche varies greatly.
    I fully agree with this. I have been bullied, online and offline, for a very long time. I've been bullied offline for the majority of my life. People are awful and will find anything about you to torment you with, especially kids/young adults. In some cases, mental issues such as being obsessive-compulsive can factor into a bullies'/stalker's behavior. First it starts off as simple bullying, and then it escalates- even if the victim were to completely brush it off.

    People don't realize that not everyone is tough and bullying doesn't make them stronger. Even with online cases (that aren't often just bullying, in some cases which are sadly becoming more common, it turns into stalking and threats of assault) there have been kids/young adults that commit suicide. I know one person who was diagnosed with PTSD because of an internet stalking case where all of their personal information was leaked.

    Not everyone is going to "man up and deal with it." It can be very taxing to someone's mental health, especially if that person is already very introverted. "Being bullied makes you tougher" is victim-blaming. I see this and it says to me that it's not the BULLIE'S fault that the victim was hurt from their behavior, but the victim's fault that they're "sensitive" which IMO is a load of bull. I personally don't see cyberbullying as any different than real bullying. Some of the stuff bullies say and do is nasty.
    Last edited by Kasune; 08-06-2012 at 02:13 AM. Reason: My grammar and spelling is awful.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasune View Post
    I fully agree with this. I have been bullied, online and offline, for a very long time. I've been bullied offline for the majority of my life. People are awful and will find anything about you to torment you with, especially kids/young adults. In some cases, mental issues such as being obsessive-compulsive can factor into a bullies'/stalker's behavior. First it starts off as simple bullying, and then it escalates- even if the victim were to completely brush it off.

    People don't realize that not everyone is tough and bullying doesn't make them stronger. Even with online cases (that aren't often just bullying, in some cases which are sadly becoming more common, it turns into stalking and threats of assault) there have been kids/young adults that commit suicide. I know one person who was diagnosed with PTSD because of an internet stalking case where all of their personal information was leaked.

    Not everyone is going to "man up and deal with it." It can be very taxing to someone's mental health, especially if that person is already very introverted. "Being bullied makes you tougher" is victim-blaming. I see this and it says to me that it's not the BULLIE'S fault that the victim was hurt from their behavior, but the victim's fault that they're "sensitive" which IMO is a load of bull. I personally don't see cyberbullying as any different than real bullying. Some of the stuff bullies say and do is nasty.
    What I said applies only to online bullying. Offline is another matter entirely.

    You let yourself be bullied online, there's plenty of things you can do about it to make it stop, Offline however its much harder to block out, as things can be constant and even get physical.

    In all honesty, verbal harassment can only get to you if you let it.

  3. #23
    You can "stop" online bullying in the sense that you can withdraw your presence or your voice. But at the same time it's not fair to expect someone to pull the plug on their online life simply because others won't leave them alone. And it's not just getting teased. Sometimes it's being stalked, sometimes it's someone leaking your personal information, sometimes it's sexual harassment (something I've experienced personally, and hurts just as much online). Sometimes it's people so desperate to make trouble with you that they follow you -everywhere- to every website and every space so you aren't left alone.

    And someone would say "just deal with it," but eventually it stops being fun to do anything online or be yourself. And I think like Kasune said, the notion is victim-blaming. Why should we put it on the victim to somehow stop the bullying when it's not their fault?

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuvvums View Post
    You can "stop" online bullying in the sense that you can withdraw your presence or your voice. But at the same time it's not fair to expect someone to pull the plug on their online life simply because others won't leave them alone. And it's not just getting teased. Sometimes it's being stalked, sometimes it's someone leaking your personal information, sometimes it's sexual harassment (something I've experienced personally, and hurts just as much online). Sometimes it's people so desperate to make trouble with you that they follow you -everywhere- to every website and every space so you aren't left alone.

    And someone would say "just deal with it," but eventually it stops being fun to do anything online or be yourself. And I think like Kasune said, the notion is victim-blaming. Why should we put it on the victim to somehow stop the bullying when it's not their fault?
    I'm not seeing your point.

    If I didn't want to hear from you or any stalker ever again there are measures to take to block them out. I have yet to see any social website with absolutely no implementations that let you block some one out.

    Edit:
    This isn't so much victim blaming as it is rationalization. There's a point people need to stop being victims and stand up for themselves. Bullies are predators and they look for people who are easy targets.
    Last edited by Sinjo; 08-06-2012 at 10:29 AM.

  5. #25
    I can block my stalker but that doesn't stop him from taking another name, trying to pretend to be a new person and try to be my friend all over again. I had to probably block 8 or 9 identities in a row just because he told me that he'd steal all the flash objects I ever made and give them away for free. It only took like a couple years for him to give up, and I still hear he stalks others and constantly tries to harass random people over silly things like having an interest in dogs or anime. The thing is, we should blame that guy for being an immense jerk and creep, and not me because I'm not "tough" enough.

    Or the time someone kept trying to emotionally manipulate me and pressure me into doing sexual things I did not want to do. He tried to break me up with my boyfriend. He also tried to break up one of my friends with her boyfriend. And before he got banned he tried going after every woman he could on this website, and most of us were too embarrassed to say anything. Was it our faults for not being tough?

    The thing is why not put the blame on the cyber bullies? They are the aggressors who are going after people. And such traits aren't very amiable; we should be able to put more social pressure on people who make it their business to hurt other people. We should also support the ones who were hurt. And some of them just aren't cases of mocking and we wanted to make that clear. It's not just making fun of someone, some of them really do try to hurt people. I remember hearing of one guy who wanted to troll the grieving by making facebook pages that mocked their dead children. There's an article about it here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...s-2354369.html

    We're trying to point out that it escalates very quickly and we shouldn't blame the victims.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuvvums View Post
    I can block my stalker but that doesn't stop him from taking another name, trying to pretend to be a new person and try to be my friend all over again. I had to probably block 8 or 9 identities in a row just because he told me that he'd steal all the flash objects I ever made and give them away for free. It only took like a couple years for him to give up, and I still hear he stalks others and constantly tries to harass random people over silly things like having an interest in dogs or anime. The thing is, we should blame that guy for being an immense jerk and creep, and not me because I'm not "tough" enough.

    Or the time someone kept trying to emotionally manipulate me and pressure me into doing sexual things I did not want to do. He tried to break me up with my boyfriend. He also tried to break up one of my friends with her boyfriend. And before he got banned he tried going after every woman he could on this website, and most of us were too embarrassed to say anything. Was it our faults for not being tough?

    The thing is why not put the blame on the cyber bullies? They are the aggressors who are going after people. And such traits aren't very amiable; we should be able to put more social pressure on people who make it their business to hurt other people. We should also support the ones who were hurt. And some of them just aren't cases of mocking and we wanted to make that clear. It's not just making fun of someone, some of them really do try to hurt people. I remember hearing of one guy who wanted to troll the grieving by making facebook pages that mocked their dead children. There's an article about it here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...s-2354369.html

    We're trying to point out that it escalates very quickly and we shouldn't blame the victims.
    You're misunderstanding me. These bullies should definitely be held accountable. There's no doubt to that, I'm not protecting them.

    What I'm trying to say is that bullies are a side of human nature. The side that likes to pick on the weak. They won't stop, they definitely won't disappear. However there is only so many times you can get picked on by different bullies and no figure that there's something larger here that needs to be rectified. You can't continue to be a victim otherwise people start to lose sympathy.

    A great example here is that you said a bully tried to pressure you and manipulate you. Now, I don't want to sound like a broken record, or a dick, but. You have to explain to me how some one can Force you to do something. How can he, over the internet force you to do something sexual. How can he, over the internet force you to break up with your boyfriend? He can't. He can't force you to do anything, so anything that you think he did, was a result of you.

    All I'm trying to get across, is that there is a point.

  7. #27
    Senior Kasune's Avatar
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    Wuvvums covered everything I wanted to say. It's also difficult to type on a phone so I can't add much at the moment, other than cyberbullying isn't always a GROUP of people going after a victim. Most of the time its one person who will say really awful things, stalk you, follow you, etc. I see this happen frequently yet the victim still gets blamed for it. Oh, your full name and address were leaked? It's the internet, what are they going to do? Deal with it! The problem is that really, you never know. There are people with serious issues out there.

    I mean yeah everyone is different but when someone is harassing you for a long time, I can imagine it to be detrimental to someone's emotions.
    Last edited by Kasune; 08-06-2012 at 11:06 AM.

  8. #28
    It really depends on the person and how they choose to do it but some people do the whole "I'm your friend thing" and try to barrage you with every excuse they can, while picking away at your insecurities, and never let up. And when they start out as a friend and you want to fix these things and get them to drop that it's pretty hard. It's pretty hard to "just be friends" with someone who really wants sexual favors out of you and tries to pick apart at anything they can- and in this case actually try to turn me against my boyfriend. And others told me they have done the same. Part of my defense afterward was to add extra barriers of distrust towards men, and even though that's my prerogative some people actually got offended at such a notion that I may not be comfortable with men after having someone try to tear me apart in an effort to get his rocks off.

    I don't think it's right to say that someone can't continue to be a victim because that's still blaming the victim. And some people aren't comfortable or tough or know how to take certain situations. I think like the sexual harassment it felt the worst when I was young and I didn't know how to handle people like this, especially when they were trying to convince me that we're actually friends. I don't think it was right that he kept trying to coerce me when I kept telling him to stop, and that he chose to torment me so much over it and try to jab at my relationship.

    It's hard to articulate but I feel like it should be inherent why it's wrong to bully. What he did was wrong. And we shouldn't just shrug our shoulders and assume that people should just toughen up. I wasn't the only person he did this to and sometimes he'd go after people's facebooks after they blocked them in one place because he was still prodding them for sexual favors, even though it was made clear they didn't want any. He would stalk, pressure, and manipulate and go after the next weak target he could find. Instead of just telling all those girls to just "toughen up" we should really just come down hard on someone like him and tell him to stop being a creep. Assuming that people need to toughen up is just a passive way to not hold them accountable, even if you claim you aren't blaming the victims you are trying to say that they should change rather than trying to change the bullies.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuvvums View Post
    It really depends on the person and how they choose to do it but some people do the whole "I'm your friend thing" and try to barrage you with every excuse they can, while picking away at your insecurities, and never let up. And when they start out as a friend and you want to fix these things and get them to drop that it's pretty hard. It's pretty hard to "just be friends" with someone who really wants sexual favors out of you and tries to pick apart at anything they can- and in this case actually try to turn me against my boyfriend. And others told me they have done the same. Part of my defense afterward was to add extra barriers of distrust towards men, and even though that's my prerogative some people actually got offended at such a notion that I may not be comfortable with men after having someone try to tear me apart in an effort to get his rocks off.

    I don't think it's right to say that someone can't continue to be a victim because that's still blaming the victim. And some people aren't comfortable or tough or know how to take certain situations. I think like the sexual harassment it felt the worst when I was young and I didn't know how to handle people like this, especially when they were trying to convince me that we're actually friends. I don't think it was right that he kept trying to coerce me when I kept telling him to stop, and that he chose to torment me so much over it and try to jab at my relationship.

    It's hard to articulate but I feel like it should be inherent why it's wrong to bully. What he did was wrong. And we shouldn't just shrug our shoulders and assume that people should just toughen up. I wasn't the only person he did this to and sometimes he'd go after people's facebooks after they blocked them in one place because he was still prodding them for sexual favors, even though it was made clear they didn't want any. He would stalk, pressure, and manipulate and go after the next weak target he could find. Instead of just telling all those girls to just "toughen up" we should really just come down hard on someone like him and tell him to stop being a creep. Assuming that people need to toughen up is just a passive way to not hold them accountable, even if you claim you aren't blaming the victims you are trying to say that they should change rather than trying to change the bullies.
    I've said all I wanted to say.

    However, it's a bit hypocritical to sit here and continue to blame and only blame a bully, to only hold them accountable.

    If you've been picked on so many times by different people. Maybe you need to stop. Take a look at what's going on? Why are bullies picking on you?

  10. #30
    TURBOTASTIC!!! AtomiKamikaze's Avatar
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    Not getting caught up in the debate, but Wuvvums rant was a good way to deal with younger tracers. Grudges are bad when it comes to kids online since once they get past the angsting period, they may turn out to be great people (hormones do a lot!) Also, at this stage while it's good to remind them they're not a special snowflake and man up, it's not an excuse to be needlessly cruel! When I was in middle-school in that vital age I was bullied terribly and it turned me from a confident person into an anxious, paranoid mess I still haven't recovered from.

    And about "slapping the brat"--bad kids are the result of either bad parenting or the kid needs to go a mental asylum. I hate to say it but raising children and dogs behavior-wise are extremely similar. Kids sense weakness and poor leadership in parents results in "Little Emperor Syndrome"--so the kid believes that the world is theirs to conquer and as someone said, stratifies their position by putting down others they see as smaller, and I see this very often in sheltered children who throw the age card when bullying others, particularly upper-class sheltered adults with spectrum disorders. They seem to be the biggest bullies and hamlets of the bunch.

    Heh, sorry, just had to put in my piece here.

 

 

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