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  1. #11
    Resident Khajiit Ibuuyk's Avatar


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eminoxic View Post
    Please don't turn this into a hate thread. No need to call out countries/races. Discussion is fine, but "Yeah, Americans suck!" is not something we can just leave on the forums. It causes a big flame thread.
    Hate? I wouldn't go so far. It's more like pitying them and trying to make 'em better by stating facts and suggestions.

  2.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #12
    Cold as Fire Eminoxic's Avatar


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ibuuyk View Post
    Hate? I wouldn't go so far. It's more like pitying them and trying to make 'em better by stating facts and suggestions.
    The same can be said about every person, every country, every entity. Going about it publicly can cause problems, people are sensitive to words, and will cause an argument over something that is clearly down talking a country. Last warning, I'm not a person to infract/warn people on the forums, but I know this will end bad if it's not stopped.

  3. #13
    Sophomore Matt's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ibuuyk View Post
    Long, Overwhelming Thing
    You're making a lot of different assumptions here that I find fault in, and they're flying off in a lot of different directions, so my apologies if this seems a bit disorganized or if I miss something. Neither of us know as much as we think we do, and I won't pretend like I know for a fact that everything I'm going to say is correct. However, I know an attitude of "just get over it" isn't as simple as you're making it out to be.

    Bullying exists only because the medias talk about it.
    I don't know exactly how you define "bullying" or"mocking" or whatever, but in this context I'm going to consider both of them "reacting negatively against something outside of the perceived norm." It's a troublesome word, and since the definition is open to so much interpretation, it sucks that I'm going to have to keep using it again and again, but it's sort of unavoidable in this context. You seem to equate bullying to media coverage, but I don't see how that could possibly be the case. Granted bullying has been covered much more lately in various media outlets, but that wasn't the inception of the problem. Do you think that bullying didn't happen before news editorials decided to cover it? Or do you think that the media itself invented the concept? I'm under the impression from various literature, movies, and anecdotes from family members that this shit was happening far before it became a political hotpoint. The media may have exacerbated it, but they certainly didn't start it. Bullying goes back much farther and goes much deeper then some media conspiracy. How could it not?

    Where I live... bullying doesn't exist at all.
    That seems shortsighted. While I can't speak for Quebec, not having lived there, I find it hard to believe that bullying simply doesn't happen where you live. The American media didn't start it, so what in Quebec would stop it? I don't think this claim is excessive considering your post spoke on behalf of and to all of America.

    When I was in second grade, I was stuck wearing a massive pair of eyeglasses. I got made fun of for them. Not because the media or some outside force was compelling all the kids in my class to recognize my eyewear as a point of contention, but because the glasses were funny looking. They were ugly, and bad, and stood out. Regardless of the kids' motives for pointing that out, it sucked, and I was happy as hell when I realized my eye-doctor fucked up, and I didn't have to wear them any more.

    That's some pretty trivial shit. However, at the time, it was painful. Would that situation not happen where you live? If not, why not? If so, does that not qualify as bullying? I'm not saying this is the type of thing that needs litigation against it or repeated news stories decrying it. It's an example for the purposes of definition.

    Kids will see bullies are popular and learn about how they steal lunch money and stuff, and think it's a good way to get known and rich.
    thanks to advertisement and the medias saying "Parents shouldn't touch their kids, or their kids will get taken away". Kids, of course, know this and thus know they have every rights in the world.
    Do you really operate under the impression that kids will seek out the exact wrong thing to do, calibrate whether or not they can get away with it, and then, choose that option before any other? I don't think kids are that evil, and I certainly don't think kids at that smart.

    On the contrary, a single slap is all you need to raise your brat to be perfect.
    This point in particular is problematic, and I don't want to picture what your idea of "perfect" is. Hitting your kids when they're acting up doesn't teach them to act better. It teaches them to duck. While I agree the lesson that negative actions beget negative consequences, this isn't the way to do it. There are multiple studies that will bear out the idea that reacting violently against kids, physically or verbally, doesn't teach kids that the precipitating action itself is a bad thing but only that the repercussions of it are undesirable. What they learn from that situation isn't "screaming in public is irritating to people around me," what they learn is "screaming in public will cause me some sort of pain." That's lazy parenting, and a dangerous attitude to claim as an ideal.

    It makes more sense to me that a lot of examples of kids acting disorderly are them testing waters to see what they can or cannot do in society. It's a learning process. How that process is handled is important. I don't think anyone wants to be in constant fucking discord with the world. We're by nature a social species. Being put out from society makes life difficult and is inherently undesirable. Eventually, unless something in their head is unbalanced, those screaming children are going to stop screaming. Not because they fear some angry hand coming out of nowhere, but because they realize it's in their best personal interest to stop. It's a positive progression. It's reaffirming their place in society.

    And, of course, people can reaffirm their place in a negative way too. Feeling put out can make one react against other people who they define as "other" in order to declare their own normalcy. It's less an attitude of "it'd be nice to fit in" and more of "that person doesn't fit in and that must be made apparent so I look better in comparison." This is self-preserving mechanism so it's not something absolutely blameworthy, but it's a problem because that leads to stratification. That stratification leads to bullying. Bullying isn't an issue because it points out what doesn't fit in, it's an issue because it points out what doesn't fit in as a egotistic attempt for the one bullying to feel more correct in their own right.

    Now to come back to bullying. Imo, it IS a good thing. It truly shows a kid what the world is really about. A kid who gets bullied will know that the world is a harsh place, that he'd better toughen up and either keep being a sheep and stop whining or team up and turn against the bully.
    TL;DR Bullying exists only because the medias talk about it.
    Your post in general seems to espouse the idea of "You don't need to address a problem and why it's happening. Pretend a problem isn't there and it will go away. Get over it. Get tough. Etc. Etc." It puts the impetus on the people who are being victimized to change rather than the people doing the victimization. You're taking part in a moral argument here. It's an argument of what's right and wrong/what's good or bad, and it's difficult to believe that much of what you have to say has the best interest of anyone (kids, bullies, America, society) in mind when you're taking that stance. You're making the world out to be harsher than it needs to be.

    Srs Americans, why the Hell do you let the medias tell you what you must do, turn off your TV and learn to live yourself, geesh.
    You bully.
    Look at all the fun we're having.

  4. #14
    I think the larger problem today is that society has turned individualistic. Instead of working for our countries or our species, we've decided it best to focus on ourselves. Honestly, it's ruining the next generation.

  5. #15
    Resident Khajiit Ibuuyk's Avatar


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eminoxic View Post
    The same can be said about every person, every country, every entity. Going about it publicly can cause problems, people are sensitive to words, and will cause an argument over something that is clearly down talking a country. Last warning, I'm not a person to infract/warn people on the forums, but I know this will end bad if it's not stopped.
    Okie dokie :3

  6. #16
    Senior Tybby's Avatar
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    Whence came bullying before the dawn of media, if bullying is exclusively begot of "American Media"

    If children are 100% complicit with the media encouraging children to bully (presumably through shows like "Arthur" and "Barney"), why do they not show this same amount of subordination when programs tell them to be nice?

    Has bullying all but disappeared since this video, posted less than a year ago?

    I just do not understand the rationale behind what you've said, Ibuuyk, nor the vehemence in your tone :/

  7. #17
    I'm not sure if part of the point of my thread was missed. This was mostly a self-reflection on how I was involved with bullying, how I propagated it, and my own personal growth. It wasn't only bullying but there was drama too, which is best to stay out of.

    And one of the things I brought up was that I felt it was okay to bully somebody because I thought they were bad enough to warrant attacking them. I think the idea that bullying "toughens" someone is a way of implying that that person was bad enough to deserve bullying, and thus bullying is a tool of learning. The reality is that even if it was such a tool it is not up to us to be punishers, and there are definitely more positive ways to think about the person you don't like, and approach the situation in a way other than trying to bully, humiliate, and undermine them.

    And, of course, people can reaffirm their place in a negative way too. Feeling put out can make one react against other people who they define as "other" in order to declare their own normalcy. It's less an attitude of "it'd be nice to fit in" and more of "that person doesn't fit in and that must be made apparent so I look better in comparison." This is self-preserving mechanism so it's not something absolutely blameworthy, but it's a problem because that leads to stratification. That stratification leads to bullying. Bullying isn't an issue because it points out what doesn't fit in, it's an issue because it points out what doesn't fit in as a egotistic attempt for the one bullying to feel more correct in their own right.
    Not to overlook Matt's post, but this hit the nail right on the head.

  8. #18
    Sophomore Matt's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wuvvums View Post
    I'm not sure if part of the point of my thread was missed. This was mostly a self-reflection on how I was involved with bullying, how I propagated it, and my own personal growth.
    Yeah, my apologies, dude. Whether we agree on certain things or not, my post was out of line. I was responding directly to Ibyuuk and not to the topic at hand, and that's exactly how threads get derailed. It won't happen again.

    More relevant: I'd like to think I've moved past the ultradrama stage in my life, at least the point where I no longer seek shit out. I'm not sure it's quite growing up but just not finding any utility in doing it any more.
    Look at all the fun we're having.

  9. #19
    Rain
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    Wuvvums and Matt, you've given me a lot to think about the world and the Internet concerning drama, harassment, and bullying. I am not afraid to admit that I am one of many that needs to take a hard look at themselves, but I've never could place the foundations for where I could start building a better attitude towards others.

    My issues have extended from being harassed extensively myself. It hasn't made me a stronger person or any of that nonsense, but an extremely bitter person who takes it out on others. It's also forced me to be much more self serving and ignoring the needs of other human beings.
    This is not to say that everybody has had the exact same reaction as I have, but the mentality of “being bullied makes you tougher!” explicitly ignores the fact that the human psyche varies greatly.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ibuuyk View Post
    On the contrary, a single slap is all you need to raise your brat to be perfect. Your kid starts being a whiny brat? Raise your voice, tell him to stop. He keeps whining and acting spoiled? Slap. From then on, when he's whining and you raise your voice, he'll most likely stop. If he doesn't just raise your hand and he'll know you're serious.
    If you can't raise your kids with out being violent, you shouldn't have kids at all. Parents should set an example, and all hitting does is showing that you can't handle the situation without being violent. And is that really something you should learn your kids? Children should respect their parents, not fear them. Most of the badly behaved kids I have met, are kids that have been hit. And most bullies are children who have violent parents.

 

 

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