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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Who here is not a furry?

  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    Something can still be your passion while developing it into a successful, self-sustaining business. Like painting, writing, or photography.

    One of FA's biggest problems is that the site owner doesn't treat it like a business. They sink money into hardware, but refuse to hire competent coders or deliver much needed site updates.
    Yeah, but another problem is they really have a unique talent for letting personalities and politics trump any warmth anyone would otherwise feel for the "brand". To be blunt, they could have all the coders and stuff, but it wouldn't make them any less a nest of assholes. Was I the only one who noticed a thread here where someone, I don't remember who, said basically "yeah, I think this place is inevitably going to just be a second FA". And they strike me as being a hell of a lot less cynical than me (not that that's a huge feat). It gave me a bit of a reality check, and if that hadn't, some of my own "experiences" thus far would have. Obsessively locking threads, micromanaging conversations, all of this comes out of a fundamental distrust of your own users and it's patronizing. It breeds resent. It really does suggest to me that, indeed, it is just an extension of FA.

    There's sites that have been around much longer, have a much larger userbase, a much wider appeal, and yet handle simple human interactions way, way better than this, and go figure, I'm a moderator on one of them. But I'm sure someone will tell me how it's all my own personal failings and misconceptions at work here.

    Have at it, hoss.

  2. #102
    Sophomore Matt's Avatar

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    I can't really speak to the FA comparisons. I've never felt drawn to be a part of that community, so I don't have the necessary experience to draw or debate parallels. But I feel differently about one of your points unique to here.

    Obsessively locking threads, micromanaging conversations, all of this comes out of a fundamental distrust of your own users..."
    The threads I've seen locked seem mostly to occur (excepting duplicates) when the posts become less about the topic of thread and more about the people within it, less about "I have a problem with your point," and more of "I have a problem with you." There's a bit of truth to what you said, the threads wouldn't be locked if we implicitly trusted the active parties to rein themselves in on their own, but that hardly exemplifies a universal lack of faith. If one action represented all, then any locked thread would entail distrust in entirety. And every unlocked thread would entail an equivalent level of fidelity. This kind of declaration of absolutes just fosters contradiction, and it's not that simple.

    I'd like to think that the decisions to lock or warn are more situational, and that each exemplifies a specific moment where the staff has to weigh the substance of the thread against just how far it's been taken off track. I don't think anyone on staff once to see these forums used as a place to breed conflict. Disagreement is productive, but clashes where people just want to rail on about their own points isn't really.

    I'd imagine where you draw that line on your community is different from where it's been drawn here. If you're a moderator, then I imagine you feel pretty strongly about your own impression of where that line should be, and a more reserved approach might seem patronizing. That's completely fair. However, I don't think that it can be said that one is right and one is wrong. They just appeal to different people, perhaps people who would rather see blazes burn themselves out versus people who would rather not have them happen at all. I'd like to think that either school of thought can be applied positively and that both Weasyl and your site can do well, operate under the best of intentions, and ultimately provide communities that their specific members feel welcome in. Approaches don't necessarily need to overlap for desired results to.

    Additionally, I can see your point about using business terms being problematic. Depending on how you look at it, it can either be seen as "these are the people we want to make money off of," or "these are the people we hope to be able to serve to the best of our ability." But the impression I've gotten is that the point of this approach is meant to be organizational and to encourage accountability, hence the hierarchy, the code of conduct, and the posting of the finances, not to break everything about the community into marketing tropes. If there turns out to be a problem with the site, it won't be because of the system.

    I appreciate with your cynicism, dude, whether or not I agree with it. You might be seeing a pattern where there isn't one, or you might be the first person to see a real problem. It's not something I can really defend against; I just don't subscribe to your impressions. Ultimately, if you turn out to be right right about these things, then you won't need to demonstrate anything. This place will fail on its own.

    I just don't believe that that's going to happen.
    Look at all the fun we're having.

  3. #103
    Where you fail is in not understanding it doesn't matter whether or not you try to "breed conflict". Conflict has a way of breeding itself. It's how you handle it. If you handle it by chastizing users and locking threads, it discourages people from posting and, this is just my impression, but this isn't a very active forum for having as many users as it does. It reads as, I don't know how to handle conflict, so I'm just going to shut shit down. It comes across as cowardly and, while we're on the subject of cynicism, there's two main kinds. There's the kind of cynic I am, which is, I don't trust your intentions (which I don't), and then there's the kind of cynicism I think I'm seeing here which is, I think people are incredibly stupid and I should take advantage of that for my own self-interest.

    Frankly, it's not very smart to be this obsessed with managing an image and then telegraphing it like that. Also, for what it's worth, I don't think Ben should've been banned from FA, or that anyone I've argued with here isn't entitled to their views or has their reasons for having them.

    None of this stops me from being on the fast track to being banned here, which I obviously am. That's why I don't like you. That's why, I think, in time, neither will anyone else except the handful of mutual friends the site will be built around, which, BTW, is how I see FA and fault it for more than the technical and financial issues.

  4. #104
    Premium User Athuka's Avatar
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    Well, this topic has most certainly declined rather quickly. If I may ask, could the recent discussions about the website and forums be broken off into their own thread? I am sure there are a few people who would like to take part in disputing Weasyl's management without derailing RX-149Dragonite's thread even further.

  5. #105
    Meds and Monsters Morphology's Avatar

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    I appreciate that you're cynical. Heck, I'm cynical and look at things critically. Everyone should be cynical to at least a light degree, because if you never question what's around you and become complacent, things don't have a potential to change for the better. Though from my standpoint, I don't believe I'm the kind of cynic who wants to take advantage of people. And I don't think people 99% of the time go into positions of leadership for that purpose. If I had looked at the position of Ferret and thought, "I need to babysit folks", I wouldn't have volunteered; doing things like moderating without putting some trust and care in the members of the group/forum is just joyless work. I do trust the folks here. You guys have been extremely civil and respectful to one another, and I appreciate that, and I'd never think of you guys as people to be taken advantage of, just as I hope you guys think of me.

    It is true; conflict can and often does start on its own. Everyone has their own opinions and they don't always agree, and in an Internet environment someone's response can incite negative feelings. Back when I frequented the FA Forums, sometimes I would get absolutely incensed and just unload on a poster. Sometimes you get into disagreements with folks, and you let your emotions get away with you and the disagreement gets personal. It happens to everyone online and offline. Though when you see an argument and folks starting to get angry, isn't it helpful to try to defuse the conflict somewhat? It's like if someone insults you and your friend comes up and says, "hey, he didn't mean it like that. Just chill." That's what I feel like coming in and just giving a little heads-up does - defuse tension. Unfortunately, sometimes that doesn't work and it escalates and threads get locked, because I personally feel the longer you leave an angry, flaming thread open the more people get sucked into the argument and more feelings get hurt. I moderated on a forum as well, and from my personal experience folks in general resolve conflicts on their own, but in those few instances things get really bad and the whole forum suffers from hurt feelings and cliques. Though it may have just been the nature of the forum I moderated; it can vary. My point is, I feel like threads get locked not as a way of shutting down disagreement or chastising anyone, but because the discontinuation of the topic is better than the loads of anger that result from leaving it open. It's much easier to prevent a riot than to calm one down after it's started. Though then again, this is just my philosophy on it.

    Edit: @Mosr Same? I do appreciate critique and discussion, so perhaps this could be moved to Site Discussion. And I feel like the "who's not a furry" topic has probably run its course as well.
    Last edited by Morphology; 10-04-2012 at 06:38 PM. Reason: Thread potentially should be moved?

  6. #106
    If that's what you want, fine, I'll wait for the other thread. But frankly, I think you'd be stupid not to just ban this account because the sense of lingering hostilities over FA/FAF, or just hostility in general permeates every fucking discussion I try to have here and I don't see it going away any time soon. Honestly I think it's something inherent to furry "culture" for lack of a better word... Oh right, "it's not a furry site"... Well, maybe that's a smarter idea than I thought because I'm not sure I believe there can be a better furry site without it no longer being a furry site at all. I'm just a tad confused as to how furries think they're the ones that are going to make everyone else crossover to us instead of doing what most of us do when we get jobs and get out in the real world which is mainstream ourselves to some degree.

    And, BTW, no, being an argumentative twat obsessed with logic, quote-mining and markets doesn't = mature and mainstream, or even logical...

  7. #107
    I'm just going to close this thread myself, since it seems Wolf-Bone seems to still have a bone to pick with me, and I don't want that.

    See what I did there? Hahaha :v

    But really, knock it off. Thread closed.

 

 

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