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  1. #1
    Senior JRWenzel's Avatar
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    [game] Fuzzy Purple Mind Fizz

    Let’s toast some neurons – post questions that form a paradox.

    Rules:
    It’s a game, so have some fun with it
    This is a critical thinking exorcize; if you want to contest the validity of a question, argue the point the question brings up and not the subject or issue the question involves.
    Valid questions should be legitimately arguable in both the negative and affirmative.
    Questions can be regarding any subject (it’s just coincidence that the first 3 I came up with involve sexuality)
    You need only post the answer to the question you post if someone questions the validity of the point the question addresses.

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    If it were possible, would it be homosexual to have sex with a clone of yourself?

    In a location where same-sex union is prohibited, would it be valid to deny a couple where both individuals are hermaphrodites?

    Can a eunuch (in this case: someone literally born with no reproductive organs) legally be a victim of sexual harassment?

    Note: the name of the thread comes from a cocktail I once encountered; it was served in tall narrow cylinder, frothy, neon purple in color and you had to agree to let them hold your car keys when you ordered it and not get them back any sooner than two hours after you finished drinking it.
    Last edited by JRWenzel; 04-27-2013 at 04:00 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Lucy Bones's Avatar
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    Just saiyan, eunuch's do not have to be born without reproductive organs. Most eunuch's were born with them, and simply had them removed.

  3. #3
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    Yes, yes and yes. I don't see how these are paradoxal

    Also eunuchs aren't born genderless, they're men who get castrated, usually at a young-enough age to have important hormonal changes to make it so they're not sexual. They were prized as servants but expendable and easily disposed off.

  4. #4
    Senior JRWenzel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucy Bones View Post
    Just saiyan, eunuch's do not have to be born without reproductive organs. Most eunuch's were born with them, and simply had them removed.
    Only word I know for it, and I do remember seeing an interview with someone that was born that way.
    I adjusted the definition

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibuuyk View Post
    Yes, yes and yes. I don't see how these are paradoxal
    A clone by definition is the same organism as the original allowing it to be technically classified as masturbation which isn’t homosexual whiles at the same time the acdtivity is.

    The couple would qualify as being at the same time the same gender and opposite genders of each other; neither of them qualify as being specifically male or female yet could function as either.

    All current legislation as written specifies gender and such an individual biologically has no gender and it could be legally argued a non-sexual individual wouldn’t qualify.

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    The first is a paradox in that it has yet to be proven if a clone is an individual or iteration of its original
    The second is a paradox in that both definitions of male and female apply to both individuals.
    The third is a paradox in that current laws define harassment based on the sexuality of the victim not the acts of the perpetrator.
    Last edited by JRWenzel; 04-27-2013 at 04:02 PM.

  5. #5
    Resident Khajiit Ibuuyk's Avatar


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    Quote Originally Posted by JRWenzel View Post
    Only word I know for it, and I do remember seeing an interview with someone that was born that way.
    I adjusted the definition

    A clone by definition is the same organism as the original allowing it to be technically classified as masturbation which isn’t homosexual whiles at the same time the acdtivity is.

    The couple would qualify as being at the same time the same gender and opposite genders of each other; neither of them qualify as being specifically male or female yet could function as either.

    All current legislation as written specifies gender and such an individual biologically has no gender and it could be legally argued a non-sexual individual wouldn’t qualify.

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    The first is a paradox in that it has yet to be proven if a clone is an individual or iteration of its original
    The second is a paradox in that both definitions of male and female apply to both individuals.
    The third is a paradox in that current laws define harassment based on the sexuality of the victim not the acts of the perpetrator.
    It may be a copy looking exactly like you, but 1) He wasn't born at the same time as you, grew up with you and thus will develop a different personality than you. They're a whole different individual. Heck, twins can be more similar to you than clones and if you screw with 'em it doesn't count as masturbation but incest. Same goes with clones. Masturbation is when you do it with your own body; which clones aren't. They may look just like you but they remain a separate entity.

    Actually I screwed up with the herm thing. They'd be bi, not gay. Since yanno, if they actually sleep with eachother, that means both of 'em like both males and females.

    And eunuchs still have a gender. They're guys, but terribly mutilated guys. Heck, just making someone an eunuch counts as sexual harassment (amongst other things)

  6. #6
    Senior JRWenzel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ibuuyk View Post
    It may be a copy looking exactly like you, but 1) He wasn't born at the same time as you, grew up with you and thus will develop a different personality than you. They're a whole different individual. Heck, twins can be more similar to you than clones and if you screw with 'em it doesn't count as masturbation but incest. Same goes with clones. Masturbation is when you do it with your own body; which clones aren't. They may look just like you but they remain a separate entity.

    Actually I screwed up with the herm thing. They'd be bi, not gay. Since yanno, if they actually sleep with eachother, that means both of 'em like both males and females.

    And eunuchs still have a gender. They're guys, but terribly mutilated guys. Heck, just making someone an eunuch counts as sexual harassment (amongst other things)
    I’m not sure if they have ever tested weather even monozygotic twins have exact 1:1 Identical DNA strands as a clone would supposedly have; current tests only show 99.99% which may be the limit of the test and may also only be a comparison of genetic markers and not the entire DNA strands.
    I know from personal experience, having grown up knowing two sets of identical twins as friends, that there are both physical and psychological differences between them and on the flip side experienced a few things that would make me exasperatedly shake my head and mutter “twins” under my breath and they would take far too much pleasure at my reaction.
    There was no mention as to when or how the clone was produced only “if it were possible”; within that open possibility could also be exact replication of all aspects of the original; the “sending” phenomenon noted in twins also leaves an unanswered question of the possibility of synchronicity in the exact reproduction of an individual.
    One of the wilder theories out there suggests the possibility of such an exact duplication resulting in two bodies with a shared consciousness which distorts the concept of individuality on the same level as asking someone “What side of a Mobius strip is the front?”; that question is also a paradox BTW.
    This is all largely academic anyway as an increasing number of countries, for various reasons, have preemptively outlawed experiments dealing with human cloning making it increasingly likely that it will remain within the annals of science fiction.

    Not necessarily, the question only indicated that they romantically-bonded to each other, not what gender each was romantically attracted to or what each one’s individual gender identity was.
    Hermaphrodites fall into a really unique classification, both the medical and psychological communities still argue what the classification is or should be, while having both male and female reproductive organs (functional or nonfunctional) their sexual preference (I’ve never liked that term) and gender identity are not linked to their physical appearance (most develop traits favoring females, some develop traits attributed to both male and female and in extremely rare situations some appear primarily male) and if that weren’t enough their physical appearance doesn’t guarantee if they are reproductively functional as a male, female, nonfunctional or in the absolute rarest of the rear capable of both impregnating a female as well as becoming pregnant.

    Not in the case of an individual born without reproductive organs; it’s exactingly rare, but it does happen.

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    What side of a Mobius strip is the front?

    I’ll jump ahead of the curve on this one.
    Answer:
    Yes
    (A Mobius strip has two edges but only one surface, technically making both the front and back one and the same)
    You can make one by:
    Taking a 1 inch wide strap of paper ~11 inches long:
    Attach a piece of tape to one end of the strop.
    Twist the strip 180 degrees and attach the ends together.
    (it will look like a figure 8)
    Test it by taking a pen, marker or pencil and draw a line along the center of the entire surface and the line will meet when you finish.
    Last edited by JRWenzel; 04-27-2013 at 10:10 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRWenzel View Post
    If it were possible, would it be homosexual to have sex with a clone of yourself?

    In a location where same-sex union is prohibited, would it be valid to deny a couple where both individuals are hermaphrodites?

    Can a eunuch (in this case: someone literally born with no reproductive organs) legally be a victim of sexual harassment?
    - Yes. You are the same sex as yourself

    - Yes. Hermaphrodite is considered a "sex"

    - Yes. There are more kinds of sexual harassment than molestation

    :1

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tybby View Post
    - Yes. You are the same sex as yourself

    - Yes. Hermaphrodite is considered a "sex"

    - Yes. There are more kinds of sexual harassment than molestation

    :1
    But the definition doesn’t cover sensual attraction to or activity with yourself.

    True, however, such a couple could qualify as being opposite genders of each other.

    Very true, but the current body of law fails to provide fair and equal protection of victims regardless of gender (or lack thereof in this situation).

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    Quote Originally Posted by JRWenzel View Post
    But the definition doesn’t cover sensual attraction to or activity with yourself.

    True, however, such a couple could qualify as being opposite genders of each other.

    Very true, but the current body of law fails to provide fair and equal protection of victims regardless of gender (or lack thereof in this situation).
    - But a clone of you doesn't count as "yourself", seeing as it has its own sapience. If you were in control of both bodies then yes it would be masturbation, but an act between two people, regardless of genetic makeup, is not masturbation. By your logic two identical twins fucking would be masturbation

    - No they wouldn't. Hermaphrodites don't count as whatever sex is most convenient for marriage laws, they count as their own sex. Gender has nothing to do with marriage laws, much to the chagrin of many

    - Please watch this video on sexual harassment. Notice that they don't even mention genitalia at all in the video. There are three forms of sexual harassment: Physical, Verbal and Visual. Their example for physical is being uncomfortably touched on the shoulder. You can be uncomfortable in regards to people hitting on you regardless of whether you have reproductive organs

  10. #10
    Senior JRWenzel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tybby View Post
    - But a clone of you doesn't count as "yourself", seeing as it has its own sapience. If you were in control of both bodies then yes it would be masturbation, but an act between two people, regardless of genetic makeup, is not masturbation. By your logic two identical twins fucking would be masturbation

    - No they wouldn't. Hermaphrodites don't count as whatever sex is most convenient for marriage laws, they count as their own sex. Gender has nothing to do with marriage laws, much to the chagrin of many

    - Please watch this video on sexual harassment. Notice that they don't even mention genitalia at all in the video. There are three forms of sexual harassment: Physical, Verbal and Visual. Their example for physical is being uncomfortably touched on the shoulder. You can be uncomfortable in regards to people hitting on you regardless of whether you have reproductive organs
    Presently human cloning is still largely a matter of science fiction; and if humans have any sense it will stay there — there are way too many nightmare scenarios down that road.
    Cloning is a deliberate process to replicate an organism, the limit to which an organism can be duplicated has yet to be defined; even now there are researchers that support the view that all characteristics including memory may be replicable through various processes — the degree a 100% accurate deliberate duplicate would or wouldn’t individuate is unknown.
    Twins were excluded several messages back; current testing only shows monozygotic twins as having 99.99% identical DNA, monozygotic twins develop from the division of a common fertilized cell caused by an as yet unknown mechanism not a deliberate process and additionally twins may begin to individuate even prior to birth — twins where not the subject of or even implied in the question.

    Marriage was never mentioned in the question, union (as in civil union) was.
    To be termed (sexed) a hermaphrodite an individual need only posses both male and female reproductive organs (not necessarily functional and not necessarily externalized), the hypothetical couple could superficially appear to be a man and woman yet in fact be any combination including both operationally the gender they appear.

    What constitutes sexual harassment was not the question; thanks for the video link BTW — I watched it in spite of being familiar with the subject by attending lectures and having been the target of sexual harassment on numerous occasions.
    All current legislation as-written mention one gender or the other of both, but do not mention or even allude to an individual without gender; a defense attorney would have to at least propose it as an argument regardless of how repulsive it would be.

 

 

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