Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 37
  1. #21
    Retired Staff Tiger's Avatar
    Weasyl
    Tiger
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Michigan
    Gender
    grrl
    Posts
    1,287
    Quote Originally Posted by Oly View Post
    Oh, veganism is awesome, just not when you say things like 'i wish I could literally force veganism down people's throats so they'd have to accept it or die' :U
    Do vegans really say that? Seems awfully harsh to me. I know you put that :U face at the end but I'm still making the comment on how unrealistic that is.


    If you choose something for your body, that's fine. I like eating meat, and animals kill animals for sustenance. Some animals never do, some animals do sometimes but not always. That's just how the damn world works, and if you have a problem with that, take it up with nature, who will bat you aside like the insignificant speck of nothing that every human being is.
    Vegans have to eat -something-. And if they don't eat meat, I suppose that, in a way, they are considered herbivores. And there are animals that are herbivores. It's not like everything in nature kills other animals to eat them. Yes, animals kill other animals to survive, for "sustenance" you say. But for many animals and some people, plants are what they need for their own "sustenance". Vegans are not pissed off at nature, and I'm quite sure that most of them aren't trying to argue with Mother Nature that eating meat is wrong. They just choose a diet and lifestyle of not eating meat. An herbivore diet is completely natural.

    Besides, eating plants also requires killing them. Plants are alive, and they might not be conscious or feel pain the same way humans or other forms of like like mammals do, they do react to stimulus, which means that it's entirely possible that it fucking hurts them to eat them. This is a fact that vegans tend to conveniently ignore, even while touting the 'you kill one but not the other' *picture of a pig and a dog or whatever* thing. You simple cannot eat without killing something to do it.
    A plant is not the same as an animal. A plant does not have a nervous system to feel pain*, nor do they have a brain. They are not sentient. A lot of what we eat from plants are the fruits, vegetables, or seeds they bear- we don't just go killing apple or orange trees, right? We eat the fruit, unless you believe eating an orange is killing a plant as well. And we don't eat trees. Plants are very nutritious, sometimes more so than hard to digest animal proteins. And, this may be a bit gross here, sometimes plants will produce fruits specifically so that they are eaten with the purpose of seeds being dropped away for the parent plant through defecation. So in that sense, eating a fruit is exactly what the plant wants, hell, it might even need to rely on its fruit being eaten for the plant's survival. I'm not saying that's what humans do when we eat fruits and seeds but when it comes to animals eating the fruits/vegetables/seeds that plants produce, and even just eating plants, as you say is "just how the damn world works".

    As Tool once said: This is necessary. Life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on... This is necessary. Life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on...
    Life does feed on life and life feeds on life and so on. It's just that for some lives, eating plants is what they are meant/choose to do.

    I say this again. Stop making blanket statements and assuming the worst about vegans. And if you're going to make arguments against vegans and their habits, do some research to prove your point instead of focusing on their character.

    *Certain studies suggest that plants do feel pain, but not in the same way as a human may perceive. This leads to the issue of defining exactly what pain is. From what I have read and in my beliefs, they do not feel pain. You are correct that they respond to stimuli, but does a reaction mean that they feel pain the same way is we do or is it just their built in response to know that if it is being eaten or handled or whatnot that it's not a good thing? This point is a huge argument in the scientific world of biology, and I would be more than happy to discuss this if you can back up your point that they do feel pain and suffer just as much as an animal might.

    EDIT: I totally agree with Tigercougar. A vegan could certainly be just a person who'd like to follow that kind of diet. Or a vegan could be someone whose diet is much more of a lifestyle to them. I am getting the idea that this thread is generally focusing on the vegans who follow it as a lifestyle rather than those who follow it as just a diet.
    Last edited by Tiger; 01-25-2013 at 07:31 PM.

  2. #22
    Premium User Oly's Avatar
    Weasyl
    oly
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    edmonton
    Gender
    NB/male leaning
    Posts
    307
    I actually did see someone say that thing abotu forcing veganism down people's throats on tumblr. same person who claimed to be a 'militant vegan' and all that bullshit.

    And read the first part of that sentence. It says 'veganism is awesome.' Which wasn't sarcasm. But it's not awesome when you force it on others.

    And I'm not making blanket statements about vegans, I'm making blanket statements about asshole vegans. I have no problems with the ones who aren't assholes, in fact I encourage them.

    If you choose not to eat meat, good for you. I choose to eat meat, knowing full fucking well the implications and consequences of it. That's my choice. If you don't like it, grab a tissue and cry me a goddamn river.


    Also re: plants and pain, that's just my opinion. I'm no scientist, I don't claim to be right. And I also didn't say they feel pain in any comparable way to a mammal, in fact I said they may or may not, and we don't know for sure. Even if it's not the same kind of pain, it's clear they do feel after a fashion; IIRC chickens also don't feel pain the same way as a human, but vegans get angry about them. To my recollection, until recently it was believed that fish don't feel pain the same way either, but studies have shown signs that they in fact do.

    Whether they feel pain in any way comparable to humans is besides the point though; the point is that they are alive, and eating them kills them. Sure some have adapted to having parts eaten; there's also myriad other adaptions they've made. There's also ones that have evolved with deterrents to prevent being eaten. All besides the point; they still die when you eat them. A diet that kills nothing restricts you to fruits and berries, and that also ignores the fact that killing plants is necessary for other things: creating clothing, medicine, shelter...



    My main point being: if you want to avoid eating meat, that's cool. Go for it. But if you try and force that choice on anyone else, you're a fucking asshole.

    And in the context of the thread: no matter what you choose to eat, you should educate yourself about it, how it affects your body, and how it affects other people. In an age where we have unfathomable amounts of information at our fingertips, there is no reason to be ignorant about anything.

  3. #23
    Senior Tybby's Avatar
    Weasyl
    Tybalt
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Land of Emotions and Photons
    Gender
    Moist
    Posts
    224
    "Yeah I'm vegan. Yeah that makes me better than you

    No I will not respect your right to murder

    Also I'm not an asshole, which is also why I'm better than you"

    - someone on tumblr

    The prince of being a vegan

  4. #24
    Junior embriel's Avatar
    Weasyl
    embriel
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    middle of the map
    Posts
    18
    Oh man I totally made an account just to reply to this thread

    I've been fiddling with the idea of going vegan for awhile now (I already eat a mostly vegetarian raw diet as it is)
    I believe that vegans can seem pushy (if not self righteous) because they actually understand just how many benefits there are to being vegan, and see the unnecessary consumption of meat as not only the inhumane slaughtering of animals but detrimental to our bodies and our environment. Those are the vegans that are going to "try and shove their food fad down your throat"

    If anyone didn't know this the meat industry is disgusting, alittle reading can tell you that much. There are also enough studies that show a direct correlation between meat consupmtion and heart disease and cancer, if you couldn't guess vegans and vegetarians are half as likely to develop either. On top of that vegans save 95 lives a year, and if saving the lives of animals doesn't tug your heart strings much then maybe you'd be more concerned with saving our planet. The meat industry contributes more to the growing problem of global warming than the automotive industry. With the demand for meat growing we also must sacrifice more plant-based food resources to feed these animals, it takes 10 lb of grain or other plant based food for every 1lb of meat produced. Meat production is wasteful and is more harmful to all of us than the "US of A" eating too much quinoa.

    Also did you know that they grind up male baby chicks to feed to other animals? I just thought that one was kinda gross.

    If I'm pushy about this it's because I care about people enough to try and be informative and let them know what kind of harm this causes. It's not about not eating any animal product ever again, it's about making an overall difference by lowering the demand. Before you go around calling it a fad maybe you should understand why anyone would care about what you put in your mouth.

  5. #25
    Retired Staff Tiger's Avatar
    Weasyl
    Tiger
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Michigan
    Gender
    grrl
    Posts
    1,287
    So then Embriel, is killing plants really an issue for vegans? As in, vegans are opposed to killing any life at all. Or is it more about the inhumane treatment of animals and the process used to make the meat? Along with health reasons. And I never realized how much it (the meat industry/consumption of meat) affects the environment as well.

    Gahh. Here I was flipping out about killing plants and defining pain and it might not even be the true issue at hand here. I think may have been researching the completely wrong thing.

  6. #26
    Regular Rakuen Growlithe's Avatar
    Weasyl
    N/A
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    61
    Very poor OP here. For a start the linked article is really strange. It blames vegans for everything but doesn't provide any data to support that. Are vegans really that big of a market that they can manipulate the global economy to such an extent? I doubt it. Then when the OP blames vegans it says less about vegans than his own prejudices. Why would you blame someone for buying something that's good for them? It would make more sense to blame the economic system and consumerism that favours importing from poor countries to lower costs and motivates farmers to sell for import at the expense of their own people.

    Some of the later points are even worse, the complaints about killing plants are a particular gem in that regard and completely miss the point. I also wonder how much of the "vegans are assholes" thing is them actually being like that and how much is just that they dare to promote a different view. I'm sure there's a lot more attitude directed by meat-eaters at vegans than the other way around because people seldom think the majority view is incorrect (in fact that's sort of what most Western governments are based on).
    "If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
    ~John Stuart Mill~

    Furry News: http://www.flayrah.com/

  7. #27
    Junior embriel's Avatar
    Weasyl
    embriel
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    middle of the map
    Posts
    18
    As far as moral grounds go, I personally don't have any qualms with eating another form of life, be it animal or plant. What bothers me is just how terribly these animals are treated before being killed. To eat meat, knowing what I know and seeing how farms are operated, I feel like I have to relinquish my compassion and humanity in order to do so.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by embriel View Post
    As far as moral grounds go, I personally don't have any qualms with eating another form of life, be it animal or plant. What bothers me is just how terribly these animals are treated before being killed. To eat meat, knowing what I know and seeing how farms are operated, I feel like I have to relinquish my compassion and humanity in order to do so.
    Yup. I eat meat and will continue to do so, but that doesn't mean I like how so many animals are abused in the factory system, and if, say, I see a video of a calf or pig being abused I'm not revulsed. I wish humanely raised and slaughtered meat wasn't so expensive, because I do believe that even an animal whose fate is my dinner plate should be treated with decency throughout its life.

  9. #29
    Junior embriel's Avatar
    Weasyl
    embriel
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    middle of the map
    Posts
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by Tigercougar View Post
    Yup. I eat meat and will continue to do so, but that doesn't mean I like how so many animals are abused in the factory system, and if, say, I see a video of a calf or pig being abused I'm not revulsed. I wish humanely raised and slaughtered meat wasn't so expensive, because I do believe that even an animal whose fate is my dinner plate should be treated with decency throughout its life.
    Well that really neglects every OTHER reason I've brought up why using so many animal products is terrible not only for the animals but ourselves.
    and if you REALLY don't like how the animals are treated on these farms I implore you lower your consumption at the least.
    You blame high prices instead of taking responsibility for your own choices, which only serves to reflect badly on you.
    Otherwise I wish you well with your cardiovascular disease/obesity/cancer :3

  10. #30
    Junior Cani Lupine's Avatar
    Weasyl
    Cani Lupine
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    22
    The only problem I have with vegans is when they try to claim that humans aren't meant to eat meat, that we're herbavores, or other false information like that, and demonize the rest of us for living in reality.

    Otherwise, normal vegans are cool. Used to work for a vegan restaurant. It takes a lot of work to mimic meat.

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •