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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Collection Limitation

  1. #21
    Regular Roki's Avatar
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    @Khorax: I didn't get the impression that that was what Kihari meant. As I understood it the intent was for the collections system to be used, but not forced on users if that wasn't their chosen path, and that staff time shouldn't be spent tracking down duplicate submissions in the case of commissioner/artist. I'm sorry, but I am not sure where you were coming from.

    A couple suggestions that might make the collections feature more useful for commissioners and artists both:

    - Persistant artwork even if it is removed from the artist's gallery. The artist's name is still attached and it displays only through the commissioner's collections. It can only be completely removed if removed from gallery and any collections it is attached to. This also preserves all faves, comments, and so forth.

    - Ability to upload directly to collections. In this case the artist's name is added to a "creator" field. If they join at a later time the collections offer can be extended as per usual.

    - Ability to place collected pieces directly into your gallery. You can flag them as collected in the corner with a little 'c' or something. This option means that:
    a) A commissioner uploads a piece of artwork from their favorite artist, who is not a member yet. When this artist joins they want to display the piece in their gallery as part of their portfolio. With the option to display the piece in their gallery they are able to do it without uploading a duplicate. In combination with the option to upload directly to collections the artist receives all credit for the work and the commissioner has the piece to display.
    b) An artist uploads a commission for their favorite commissioner. The commissioner does not draw and only has pieces he has purchased. By being able to display it in his gallery he can now show that he is an active user with an appreciation for his different pieces.

    - Collections gallery displays as your main gallery by default if you do not have anything in your main gallery.

    - If a file with the same filename has already been uploaded add in an alert with the name of the person who uploaded it, suggesting you request it for your collections instead. Some folks might not know if their artist or commissioner is already on the site! It can be ignored, but it would be nice to have in case it's already up.

    - Ability to select persons you share your collections with/yourself under specific titles, and display them as such. For instance: Creator or Artist, Character Owner, Commissioner, Collaborator. It gives a little more context to the submission in that way.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by DragonTalon
    They very clearly outlaw uploading commissions drawn by other people unless it falls under one of the three exceptions.

    I'll repost the rules from here again... https://www.weasyl.com/help/collections

    Although we have this system, users are still allowed to upload pieces made for them/that include them, as long as one of three conditions are met:
    1. The upload in question that was made for you is personal, and you wish to set friends-only permissions to it
    2. The original creator does not want to put it in their gallery
    3. The person who made your upload does not have a Weasyl account, although we strongly encourage our users to invite those artists who made works for them to the site. If they decline the invite, then go ahead and proceed!

    That seems pretty clear that uploading commissions is NOT allowed unless the artist is not on the site or has stated they do not wish to post that piece. It doesn't state what happens if I upload art and THEN the artist joins. Will it then need to be deleted?
    This has been posted several times in this thread, It clearly shows -intent- that the collections system be -forced- upon users, not as an option, but as a rule. From what I can tell most people haven't realized this or read the actual text and have skimmed it. I feel concern, because as much as I seem to rally against it, I actually want Weasyl to succeed, just.. not with this rule in place. It's a nice -option-, but choosing to make it a hard and fast rule makes me, as a non-artist, feel less important. My character is still my idea. I put a fair amount of work in them, just like any other creative medium. I'd like to have recognition on Weasyl that it's just as important as the artists whom are paid to provide artwork.

    I've already posted how this could turn into a logistical nightmare for non-artists. Why do I have to be a second-class citizen?

  3. #23
    Don't mean to be a wet blanket about this but between feeling insulted, discriminated against, and being a second-class citizen you are really victimizing yourself over a website feature.

    I honestly love the collections feature and I am eager for more of my friends to join weasyl so I can put my gifts/commissions into their collections. This feature is wonderful.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuvvums View Post
    Don't mean to be a wet blanket about this but between feeling insulted, discriminated against, and being a second-class citizen you are really victimizing yourself over a website feature.

    I honestly love the collections feature and I am eager for more of my friends to join weasyl so I can put my gifts/commissions into their collections. This feature is wonderful.
    Honestly, I'd love the collections feature too if I wasn't being forced to use them. I'm not really victimizing myself. It's very clear that the rule is intended to target those individuals who do not create their own artworks. I even understand some of the logic behind it: it helps ensure that artists get proper credit for their works. By and large, however, this 'feature' just doesn't work. I'm not asking for 'collections to go away'. I'm asking for the rule to be altered or options to be made so that it doesn't make me feel like Weasyl doesn't want me here. I'm a customer. A potentially paying customer. I'm someone whom, if I gave the money, didn't read the rule, and then found it enforced, would be demanding my 'donation' be returned. I'd leave the site.

    Most people haven't realized that this is a requirement. Weasyl doesn't plan on enforcing it for now.. maybe.. depending on who you talk to. That worries me. That even the admin are uncertain about it bothers me. That combined with the pay-for features? It feels fishy, and it's not inviting.

    The furry fandom is -based- on the internet, perhaps moreso than any other fandom in existance. They truly have roots and growth within centers of community like FA, SoFurry and even VCL and Furnation back in the day. I'm old enough to realize 'It's a website feature'. I'm also old enough to realize that there's a problem with it. I'm not asking for the feature to be removed, again. I'm asking for admins to reconsider making it a rule that people -must- use it, especially when it inconveniences the majority of people.

  5. #25
    Maybe I am confused but how does collections really make you feel like they don't want you? I think once they have the option for users to ask for collections from the author, then there wouldn't be much to worry about. Collections are still part of your user page so it's not like people visiting you don't get to see them. I just don't know what's being missed here since it would save on redundant submissions and focus the comments and faves on the person who made the piece.

    Collection folders would be neat, though so we can organize our collections.

    Also, how is it an inconvenience? You type in a user name and it gets forwarded to them, and then they approve. It's a very easy system.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Khorax View Post
    It's very clear that the rule is intended to target those individuals who do not create their own artworks.
    I've not really seeing that. As far as I'm reading (and correct me if I'm wrong), all users would have to comply, whether they're visual artists, musicians, writers, or only here as commissioners. You can also use other artists' works on character pages without issue (once again, someone correct me if I'm wrong).

    There's definitely some kinks to work out, but I don't find anything particularly inconvenient or alienating about the policy.
    Icon by Lingrimm.

  7. #27
    Collections are a great idea, I agree. Linking artists and commissioners like that is something that hasn't been done before.

    Mainly because it's so darn tricky. No matter how many features you add, there will be trade-offs.

    It's been started they are being worked on and improved, so here are some quick reasons and later some suggestions based on how it is now, and an attempt to explain why some people see them as a bad thing as they currently stand.

    The downsides to the current system are...

    * Collections don't have folders or show up on your profile page. I don't click the Collections tab on most profiles I view and am probably not alone.

    * The commissioner has no control or input over the submission description, title or comments.

    * If the artist deletes their account or a submission, all those comments and favorites vanish.

    * Current posted rules say you have to use it. Admins have said that for now this will be waved, but it's still unclear.

    I hope the site owners/admins don't get too discouraged over all the complains. Part of the problem is it's such a complicated idea that it's easy to point out flaws but HARD to offer solutions.

    The comments problem is one that I am not sure how to fix. Here is an example.

    Some artists like and ask for critiques. Others demand that nobody critique their art, and delete comments that do. Some artists don't mind people RPing in submission comments. Others hate it and will delete any RPing that starts.

    The problem with making one submission for the artist and the commissioner is that they ail often NOT agree on these things. Maybe the artists likes constructive critisisim but the commissioner is insulted by people critiquing his fursona design. Maybe the commissioner likes to RP with people who post on their character but the artist doesn't.

    It could be set up so each role (inker,shader,commissioner,writer) gets their own separate comments page, but now we have split things up again which breaks the idea of collections. It's tough.

    I think most of the discussion so far is revolving around the idea of using Collections being enforced. My view is it should be a feature people can choose, but not required. That gets mixed up with complaints and ideas about how it's implemented which has made this thread go in circles for the last dozen posts.

  8. #28
    Simple. The rules in place means that I would be only allowed to submit images that are either my own creation, or items that are otherwise not on Weasyl. It means that, until collections are treated just as equally as submissions on pages, that they are, for people who have little to no submissions, secondary. Likewise, if it does not fit into the top two categories, you have -Zero- control over the submission under your gallery. If the original description said something snarky, or if you wished to have something different posted, it has to be in addition, it only shows up as part of Collections, and only for those who view it.

    As mentioned later in the thread, there -are- a lot of issues that have already come up, and the site is -just- in beta, from a design concept forcing people to use collections is different from having it as an option. Given that I don't have a plethora of works, my gallery would likely be reposts of artwork of my intellectual property or characters. The characters belong to me, but I get nothing from Weasyl for that. Neither does anyone else who doesn't post works of their own. What reason why I ever need to sign up for a site like this aside from popularity.

    It's not hard to imagine how this could be off putting to some people. Check out FA and count the number of 'character' galleries there are versus individual artists. The number is staggering, but Weasyl is showing initiative to force these people to take the back seat. Of course I'm not going to be happy with it.

    I've said this before, though. I don't have a problem with collections. I have a problem with A. The way it's implemented versus Submissions and B. That you are required to use it as opposed to having it as an optional folder you can place works in.

  9.   This is the last staff post in this thread.   #29
    Sentimental Machine Fiz's Avatar

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    Khorax, no one is going to remove your work because it was already posted to the site. If they do, submit a complaint, and we will deal with that staff member.

    It's been stated several times that collections are not the rule, they are optional, but just a preference for the site so we don't have double uploads. If you're uncomfortable with using collections, don't use them then.

    Collections are also a major WIP at this point, we've gotten a lot of good suggestions on how to improve them and I'm hoping we can get some of these ideas implemented in the near future.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Fiz View Post
    Khorax, no one is going to remove your work because it was already posted to the site. If they do, submit a complaint, and we will deal with that staff member.

    It's been stated several times that collections are not the rule, they are optional, but just a preference for the site so we don't have double uploads. If you're uncomfortable with using collections, don't use them then.

    Collections are also a major WIP at this point, we've gotten a lot of good suggestions on how to improve them and I'm hoping we can get some of these ideas implemented in the near future.
    Thank you for this. I'm just concerned that it's still stated as a rule, although at this point, I have an official statement saying otherwise from you and that's encouraging. Again, I didn't want to cause problems, and I want the site to succeed, but I felt that the spirit of collections and the rules presented represented two different approaches, and it turned me off heavily. I'd hate to have some of my favorite artists moves solely to Weasyl, only to find that artwork they made of my characters could not be posted to my account and given prominence. I thank you for listening, and for taking the time out to allay my concerns.

 

 

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