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  1. #11
    Premium User Temrin's Avatar

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    I understand and have understood what the OP was saying.
    Sorry if it doesn't seem like it but i was trying to explain points that are related but might steer away from their -exact- point.

    People -already- move from account to account when just blocked communication. I've watched people do it and had to deal with it. Roki has also explained their piece about the person they are dealing with. What i dont understand is how it is not understood that -all- features are going to be abused and that Roki has explained very good points about what that person has been doing with just communication blocked.

    I understand the OP is explaining that they feel blocking from viewing content will drive people to abuse the fact that they can make a new account to get past the block and continue harassing and that it might cause them to do this MORE then just blocking communication. But they will do that anyways no matter what kind of block is given. This allows artists to have better control over what they WANT to happen and if a person creates a new account to view their work, then 90% of the time they will start acting the same way they did before, alluding the artist to believe that its the same person and therefore blocking them again. A person can only make so many accounts, i'm sure, before mods will realize there is an influx of accounts being made from 1 IP address. As well, as i mentioned prior, there might be a way to take the blocking further if they wont respect the block. Admins might have the ability to IP block a person from accessing the site if they are harassing others but abusing the fact that they can make new accounts.

    If the person creates a new account but behaves themselves, then awesome! problem hopefully solved.

    If the problem is not solved and they are harassing you again then report them! It allows the mods to know whats going on, to keep an eye on them and if they create new accounts from that IP address or to be able to tie certain accounts as this one persons doing and deal with it accordingly.

    No matter -what- you do in trying to prevent someone from contacting you, if they are determined enough to get the last laugh, then they will do it -regardless- of how far you block them. THAT was the point i was trying to make. You need to learn how to deal with these "trolls", how to report, and keep proper records so mods can take action against someone whos harassing their users.

    Hopefully, this is understood this time and not -mistaken as me not understanding what the OP was saying-... Its not hard to understand what a person is saying and try to show counter arguments. Just because they go off on a tanget a little to try to explain, doesnt mean the person doesnt understand what the OP is saying -.-'
    Last edited by Temrin; 10-19-2012 at 03:42 PM.

  2. #12
    Regular Roki's Avatar
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    I probably have missed your point somewhere. I just don't see the abuse as strongly as you do I suppose. I'm glad you don't think I'm just dismissing you though!

  3. #13
    I understand that Termin, but the fact behind the ability to use this to get users to do as an artist pleases or even making it so someone whose been a silent watcher who just enjoys someones art being blocked for no reason is what is being discussed. We get how t handle people and giving a user more power over a block isn't going to help. Blocking from all sorts of communication and reporting to an admin is the best course of action. Taking things into your own hands won't solve the problem.

    Also IP banning someone can potentially ban others as well, the household or even neighborhood could share a single IP address or they can simply switch (just a simple google search nothing complicated) and someone else can end up with that IP and be banned. It's no solution to this and will cause problems in the long run, just like advance blocking. This power shouldn't be in a users hands, leave dealing with a user to the staff.

  4. #14
    Premium User Oly's Avatar
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    if MAC address blocking is possible, that might work slightly better.

    And for the record: i feel the benefits of the system outweigh the abuse potential. Yes, i read the arguments against(all of them, i didn't skim,) and my opinion remains unchanged.

  5. #15
    @Temrin

    “What i dont understand is how it is not understood that -all- features are going to be abused and that Roki has explained very good points about what that person has been doing with just communication blocked.” – Basic blocking and advanced blocking can both be abused. Advanced blocking can be abused far more than basic blocking. In addition, advanced blocking is not more effective than basic blocking, doesn’t solve the problem people think it will and will create new problems. What I’m getting at is that having advanced blocking doesn’t make anything better and makes the block system even more ripe for more abuse then the basic blocking can.

    “ I understand the OP is explaining that they feel blocking from viewing content will drive people to abuse the fact that they can make a new account to get past the block and continue harassing and that it might cause them to do this MORE then just blocking communication.” Well no, that actually wasn’t my main point though the point you made here may be true as well. My point was people will use the block system for the wrong reasons (blocking an innocent person who hasn’t done anything wrong just because of appearances or not meeting some superficial standard OR because they didn’t met some demand of commenting enough, commenting when faving, etc). I was trying to explain the block system being used for the wrong reasons, not people getting around it.

    “No matter -what- you do in trying to prevent someone from contacting you, if they are determined enough to get the last laugh, then they will do it -regardless- of how far you block them” – Exactly! A lot of what you argued is exactly what I was trying to get at that advanced blocking isn’t actually better then basic blocking at all. But you still seem to favor advanced blocking despite making several points that support my own argument? I’m not sure why you still favor advanced blocking then?


    Btw, since text doesn’t convey tone very well, I wanted to make it clear I don’t mean any ill will towards either of you. You and Roki were nothing but mature and civil with me despite disagreeing with me and I hope nothing I said came off as attacking you or suggesting hostility as that isn’t my intent. I’m just trying to clear up any misunderstandings and explain my side in a neutral sense.

    - - - Updated - - -

    @Roki

    “ I probably have missed your point somewhere.” – that’s ok. I think some things tend to be missed when there is a lot of information given in a huge amount of text. I’m going to edit my first post to include a shortened, to the point version to reduce misunderstandings of what I’m trying to get at.

    “ I just don't see the abuse as strongly as you do I suppose.” – it probably won’t affect people of your position as much as people in my position. It’s appears to be mainly a problem for people who are seen as inferior because they’re not a good enough artist, or something about their appearance (despite not actually doing anything wrong at all). On my DA account my watch count (those I watch) drops 1-3 every week or two. About a third is deactivated accounts, the other 2/3 are people who block me right after watching them or within a month after watching them (and 99% of them I never said a single word to them). Lurkers, people with porn/fetish stuff in their favs or gallery, etc are usually the ones who are judged based on appearances even if they didn’t do anything wrong at all.

    “I'm glad you don't think I'm just dismissing you though!” – Despite disagreeing with me, You and Temrin were civil and mature with me and I appreciate that. I’m glad that we can be grown adults with the topic at hand even if we didn’t agree with each other. So no, I didn’t feel either of you were dismissing me or anything, I just saw it as a mature discussion for the topic at hand.

    - - - Updated - - -

    @ RadioCatastrophe

    Again, thank you for understanding, I pretty much agree with everything you mentioned here and you made some excellent points I didn’t cover as well.

    - - - Updated - - -

    @ Oly

    “if MAC address blocking is possible, that might work slightly better.” – And what if a harasser goes to a public place such as a library or an internet café? You’re not actually stopping them then and will screw over anyone else who tries to use that computer to access the site.

    “i feel the benefits of the system outweigh the abuse potential.” – What benefits? It doesn’t stop harassers/stalkers from seeing your stuff so what exactly are the benefits?
    Last edited by Thefallenwind; 10-19-2012 at 11:19 PM.

  6. #16
    Premium User Brine's Avatar
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    i Agree 100% with TheFallenWind.

    being able to block someone from commenting on your page/stuff is all you really need.

    the "deleting faves from the same people gets old" is a bad argument because unless you
    suck as an artist, people are always gonna be favoriting your stuff, and you always will end up
    clearing out those notifications anyway.

    the other thing here is the "Guilt by association" and "drama-related" Blocks.
    what if an artist REALLY hates Dragoneer for what ever reason, and he blocks him
    not only him but all of his "high-ranking" Friends too? thats not Fair to them they may
    just enjoy the art and not even have any alterior motives...

    and if art is for "certain eyes only" they have a friends only submission feature right??

    the Advanced blocking is just a HUGE over-reach to solve a simple problem.
    its like taking morphine for a head-ache.

  7. #17
    Regular Roki's Avatar
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    @Thefallenwind I'm glad we can disagree without fighting, it's really refreshing!

    @Brine If you mean me when talking about "deleting faves from the same person" then in my case it isn't because it gets old, it's because it's one dude being freakin' creepy. I'd rather not set a whole gallery to friends only just because I want him to stop following me all over/following my friends/etc etc etc.

  8. #18
    Premium User TotSchrei's Avatar
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    My only problem with advance blocking not able to see profiles or things is what if someone is stealing your artwork and want to use the report button?
    Is that going to still be allowed? I have actually had this problem on other sites where someone didn't like me for some reason and would block me.
    then turn around and use my artwork without permission and claim as their own.

    Or are there going to be ways around that?
    Because I havent had someone block me yet to see how that works.

  9. #19
    @Brine

    "the "deleting faves from the same people gets old" is a bad argument" - Roki pretty much beat me to this, but a lot of people would rather not be reminded of the person they blocked (because it makes them "in sight, in mind"). That's why I see no issue at all with disabling any notifications from people who are blocked, which can't be abused but at the same do not remind people that the blocked person is still watching/faving. It's just preventing from watching or seeing one's page specifically that isn't a good idea.

    "the Advanced blocking is just a HUGE over-reach to solve a simple problem." Agreed. Preventing watching or seeing someone's page won't be any more effective than preventing communication or notifications from blocked people. I wouldn't mind something like this being put in if the only problem was that it doesn't work like people think it will, but not when it will also screw over other people as well. :\


    @Roki

    "I'm glad we can disagree without fighting, it's really refreshing!" - Agreed. I wish this was more common.

  10. #20
    Regular Roki's Avatar
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    @Thefallenwind Me too. e_e

    Maybe a better solution would be not disabling the ability to view a profile, but disabling the ability to communicate at all, favorite, and view things that are purely personal like the friend's list? This restricts what the blocked user can do and restricts it to what a guest could see and do, effectively making sure that logging out to view a profile doesn't give them any more information aside from the friend's list. I don't think blocked users should be able to continue to favorite your works; if they want to see them that badly they can bookmark them on their browser. I would still like to be able to block some users from seeing my work personally, even if I could just not allow them to see above a G rating, but if this is the better solution then so be it. It just means I will probably have to friends-only some submissions in the future.

 

 

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