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  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
    If I'm getting this right, which if I'm wrong whatever, I don't want to read everyones posts and am a little late on this. If someone doesn't like me, blocks me, though I really like their art, I cant see it??? Why? Say someone steals my art, claims it as their own and then blocks me, I would never know about it? This is a bad idea. End of story. If this is what I'm reading correctly then NOONE should be disagreeing with the OP.
    There are two types of blocking. Basic blocking and advanced blocking. If you have done something to somebody to make them mad at you to the point they just do NOT want you to see their art, they are going to block you. It is the right of the artist. However, that doesn't mean they are going to do that. They may just basic block, which means ceasing all communication availabilities, but you are still able to see their artwork.
    Also, if somebody steals your art and blocks you from seeing it, that does not mean other people cannot see it. See, the thing with art theft is that the people that steal the artwork want to be noticed. They want people to see it and think they did it, thus taking the praise for it. But the more praise they get...and the more popular they become...the HIGHER the chance they are going to be noticed by somebody who realises,"Wait! This is so and so's art!" In which case they will tell you this. Then, you can report this, or ask somebody else to report it in your stead, since you have been blocked.

  2. #52
    Junior Chimaera's Avatar
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    Sorry, they are on a public site, it is not fair to just say "I don't want this specific person looking at my art". That is wrong, no getting around that. Ive been blocked by people because I don't like MLP. I never met the person and who knows, I might have watched them for their art or something, if it was on this site, I would be unfairly unable to see their work. That is NOT fair and justifying this is just silly. Simply blocking for communication is enough. It will not hurt for your art to be visible to the public like it is supposed to be.

    On the note of art theft. What if I'm an unpopular artist? which I am. No one is going to recognize it, that is favoritism towards the more popular artists in this case, while the "lower class" artists can easily get their works stolen and they would get away with it. Not fair.

  3. #53
    Premium User Temrin's Avatar

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    @Chimaera It doesnt matter if you are popular or not. i watch all kinds of artists from just starting out to "they are a major part of the art world in the fandom". No matter what level you think you are, its not hard to find people stealing your work. I've found people stealing artwork from someone who isnt that known before. Multiple times. It might not become top news in the fandom, but it will get noticed at some point. Just because you might not be the top 10 on the fandom radar doesnt mean it wont get noticed. Might it take a bit longer to find? Yes, perhaps. But i do understand your point of view on this. It would be more of a pain in the butt, sure.

    Oh and @Tartii, your last post on t he previous page (http://forums.weasyl.com/vbulletin/s...ll=1#post12028) Thank you. Thank you thank you thank you!! Total agreeance
    Last edited by Temrin; 10-23-2012 at 06:05 PM.

  4. #54
    Junior Chimaera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Temrin View Post
    @Chimaera It doesnt matter if you are popular or not. i watch all kinds of artists from just starting out to "they are a major part of the art world in the fandom". No matter what level you think you are, its not hard to find people stealing your work. I've found people stealing artwork from someone who isnt that known before. Multiple times. It might not become top news in the fandom, but it will get noticed at some point. Just because you might not be the top 10 on the fandom radar doesnt mean it wont get noticed. Might it take a bit longer to find? Yes, perhaps. But i do understand your point of view on this. It would be more of a pain in the butt, sure.

    Oh and @Tartii, your last post on t he previous page (http://forums.weasyl.com/vbulletin/s...ll=1#post12028) Thank you. Thank you thank you thank you!! Total agreeance
    I can prove to you that this is not true, I know a few people that do this, they take unpopular work on deviant art, upload them, and for years NO ONE ever notices. Someone on FA is doing this right now, the only reason I know is because I know this person. No one inside the site knows this. Nice double team though. It's disappointing that I'm in the minority right now.

    Going to work, and I've also kind of realized how futile this is.

  5. #55
    Junior ragscoon's Avatar
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    1. Promoting the creation of new accounts for each 'advanced ban' case, not in opinion but in fact, is a very bad compromise to the problem. This comes from an experienced software/database developer, but even those without experience should be able to understand the unnecessary strain this causes on servers. Sure, maybe a few additional accounts here or there isn't going to cause immediate harm, but those few-and-far-betweens do add up, the damage eventually accumulates. Larger distributed networks solve that problem, sure, but as a code of ethics you don't want to make a community dispute seek resolution through the host's budget. That will only drag the site down.

    2. Art gets stolen on a somewhat regular basis, people want attention without doing any actual work. While they may get noticed for pulling such an act the issue in this matter is time; more specifically the measure of how long it goes unnoticed. Several strategies exist to circumnavigate that negative attention, as mentioned earlier using alternate sites is one means. The 'advanced ban' feature does create another method for stealing and while not wholly a perfect strategy it nonetheless helps them in such an endeavor. They acquire more watchers/subscribers the longer it goes unnoticed, and even when it does become noticed the damage has already been done. Not all their subscribers will be notified of this theft and they will have unjustly stolen the attention from the original artist. I've seen it before, and I've had work stolen from me then had other people accuse me of being the thief. Regardless of how the situation ends, it's a piss-poor position to be in.

    3. Just because a feature already exists doesn't mean it should continue to be implemented. This is true of essentially all software and websites, many features get dropped during the beta/alpha phases through customer analysis. Considering that Weasyl is still in its beta one should always expect the possibility of a feature being removed. There are always trade-offs for different choices and it comes down to finding which trade-offs satisfy the most stakeholders while remaining affordable.

    4. Whether it's advanced or regular blocking, ANYONE could make more accounts to circumnavigate the ban. The only real difference is the limitations put on the user and how much more likely they are to make a new account in response. If there is harassment ensuing and regular bans cause the user to make more accounts for further "trolling" then that seems a probable means for a permanent IP ban (With potential review and redemption by admins at their own disclosure). If someone is given a regular ban for some minor dispute they can continue viewing the gallery without bothering the artist, but if an advanced ban is placed the user is more likely to create a secondary account for viewing purposes, leading back to the issue of server strain.

    5. While every public feature has the potential to be abused by the community, a feature of this magnitude being abused poses a strong likelihood of damaging the site as a whole, possibly even splitting the community apart at some point (Not splitting because the feature exists, but splitting because of how the feature is being used).

    In conclusion this advanced ban feature could be meaningful if used sparingly and only in extreme situations (Not for petty reasoning or minor disputes) but if used as a regular feature of the site could present some serious consequences. It all comes down to how the community chooses to use such a feature that will determine the future of it.

    In light of these facts I have a suggestion that some may or may not agree with. I would propose a ticketing system specifically for advanced bans, so instead of the ban being an instantaneous decision by one artist the ban would be a proposal for ticketing staff to consider and act upon. Reasoning for the ban and the user in question would be provided and the admin(s) responsible for the case would need to review and determine the best course of action. Yes this would create more work for the administration team, but more volunteers could be picked up for such a role and it would protect this feature from community wide misuse.

    Short-version: Many problems result from misuse but it's up to how the community uses it that determines said consequences.

    Suggestion: Regulate and administer advanced bans through a ticketing system and letting website officials handle the case in question.

  6. #56
    Premium User Temrin's Avatar

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    @Ragscoon

    I think your suggestion is actually quite a good one : )

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
    Sorry, they are on a public site, it is not fair to just say "I don't want this specific person looking at my art". That is wrong, no getting around that. Ive been blocked by people because I don't like MLP. I never met the person and who knows, I might have watched them for their art or something, if it was on this site, I would be unfairly unable to see their work. That is NOT fair and justifying this is just silly. Simply blocking for communication is enough. It will not hurt for your art to be visible to the public like it is supposed to be.

    On the note of art theft. What if I'm an unpopular artist? which I am. No one is going to recognize it, that is favoritism towards the more popular artists in this case, while the "lower class" artists can easily get their works stolen and they would get away with it. Not fair.
    Look, whether or not you think art being on a public site gives you the absolute right to view it or not, it isn't your art and you didn't draw it or commission it so you shouldn't have any say in what the person who put that effort into it actually wants to do with their art. Are you also offended by friends-only artwork?
    If you say "plz" because it's shorter than "please," I'll say "no" because it's shorter than "yes."

  8. #58
    @Ragscoon
    Having the admins deal with it, if the advanced banning starts to get out of hand, is a good idea. But how are we to know if this will really happen? All of this is based on a lot of what-ifs. ^^''
    Also, people making several side accounts is something that can happen even if Advanced Banning wasn't here. Again, I think if we just limited the number of accounts people can make it would solve a lot of this.
    And in the case of art theft, it is going to happen no matter what. I have learned this the hard-way...and once something is on the internet it will always be there. With time, it will also always be caught. Advanced banning can only benefit an art thief by only having that one artist not noticing...but everybody else in the community will....well that notices lol.

    But all your points are very valid. I think the best thing really is to just let the site run its course, and if it becomes a problem THEN actions should be taken. For now, as small as it is, having the ability in case something happens to have control over who views my art and who I REALLY do not want to view it is a small security. No matter how minor.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
    If I'm getting this right, which if I'm wrong whatever, I don't want to read everyones posts and am a little late on this. If someone doesn't like me, blocks me, though I really like their art, I cant see it??? Why? Say someone steals my art, claims it as their own and then blocks me, I would never know about it? This is a bad idea. End of story. If this is what I'm reading correctly then NOONE should be disagreeing with the OP.
    It was one of the points brought up yes, but only if an artist can block someone from their gallery (I have no idea if this is actually what's there since I haven't blocked anyone or read much about it), the OP is also worried about others who may be in the same situation(s) as they have been in before such as being blocked for not being talented enough, not commenting when favoriting, or not commenting/favoriting enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by RadioCatastrophe View Post
    This power shouldn't be in a users hands, leave dealing with a user to the staff.
    "This Power" being advanced blocking, AKA what Ragscoon said as a solution.

    @Kazekai; If you put something on a public social network you can't expect people not to look at what you post unless everything is friends only. No need to go attacking Chimaera as I agree with them, you shouldn't single someone out when you're posting art to the PUBLIC. That's like banning someone from a public park because of what shoes they wear. Or telling someone they can't listen to you play music on the street corner because you don't like their t-shirt. You're in a public location, your rules only apply to so much.
    Last edited by RadioCatastrophe; 10-23-2012 at 10:52 PM.

  10. #60
    Agh there is just no reasoning. x-x
    I'm going to say this again, just because an artist posts artwork on an art site does not make you ENTITLED to see it. It is their artwork, and they can control who they want to see it if they so desire. By arguing that 'you cannot decide who you get to allow to view your artwork!' you are basically against the 'friends only artwork' as well.
    An artist posts their artwork online because THEY DECIDE TO. Not because everybody is entitled to see it. They also post artwork on a public website to reach more people.

    Let me see if this makes more sense.
    Say there is an open art gallery to the public, and artists get to put up their artwork to show to the people! It is a free service, and in turn people get to see beautiful artwork! Suddenly, somebody comes in and begans to spout nasty things. They begin to harass the artist, maybe even steal their work or try to copy things exactly. They are being just rude. Are they still entitled that, no matter what they do, they can still view the art? I think that shouldn't be so. If somebody is rude to you, you should have the right to block them from seeing the art. Everybody is not ENTITLED to view it just because its on a public art site. It is something an artist does out of their own decision.
    If an artist in the gallery comes to disagree with another that has come to view their work, so much so that it irritates them to the point of fury, they should be able to decide they do not want this person around PERIOD. It makes some people angry that somebody they do not like or trust is still able to view their art in the gallery, even if they cannot speak to them.
    Also, if this person irritates them, or several other people (this is very minute if you imagine there are a lot of people visiting said art gallery) that person should not be bullied into leaving because they "are not allowed to ban certain people from viewing their artwork, they just need to learn to put up with it." It is their artwork, they can control it how they see fit.

    I feel like a broken record..
    Last edited by Tartii; 10-23-2012 at 11:13 PM.

 

 

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