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floe
10-08-2012, 04:44 PM
So from what I can see in the Help Topics, Collections have to be /extended/ to a user by the initial artist to ensure that the artist receives full credit. Perhaps a better way to do this would be ot allow users to upload /themselves/ to a Collections section? I only say this because some artists might forget to send the Collections offer, and there's lots of artists not on Weasyl right now. Perhaps a field /must/ be filled in if it's to be submitted under collections with the artist's name and/or a link to their page. I don't know. I've already noticed people uploading art that they themselves haven't created to their gallery, rather than Collections. Just food for thought :O

CaffeinatedCrafts
10-09-2012, 02:03 AM
Wait, really? We have wait for them to give the collections notice? We can't just go to the submission and click 'add to collections' like favorites? That's ridiculous.

I'd also like to be able to upload stuff by myself, because I want to move everything over from FA, and most of the commissioned artists aren't on Weasyl yet, or won't be. I am not going to search on here for my hundreds of my watched artists so i can search through thier gallery to find all my commissioned art.

The collections may work well for future commissions posted here, but not for past commissions.

Fay V
10-09-2012, 03:52 AM
We're still fixing up the collections feature, so thanks for the suggestion.

Just to clear up some confusion, if the work was commissioned for you, you can post it. We're asking users to find their favorite artists on here and request a collections offer from the artist to cut down on duplicate submissions. However if your artist isn't here, and isn't ever going to be on the site, then don't feel like you can't post as long as it was made by you or for you.

floe
10-09-2012, 09:47 AM
OHHHH. Gotcha. That makes more sense.

skimike
10-10-2012, 08:43 PM
I don't know what your schema looks like, but you could conceivably de-dupe on uploads by maintaining a table with a hash of the file as the primary key and just have multiple references, assuming the file has been uploaded unaltered.

I have another question about Collections: what happens when the original artist decides they're going to purge their gallery (as we've seen happen on numerous occasions on FA) and the piece that they delete happens to be a member of a Collection? Do Collections behave like hard links where the image in question doesn't vanish until the last pointer to it is removed, or will a person's Collection be filled with "Image removed" links, or will the image simply silently vanish from the Collection?

Luketh
10-12-2012, 08:16 AM
The hash tags may be a friendlier way of handling the duplicate uploads, along with maybe an optional "source" field that points to the artist and the original file.

See personally, I am solely a commissioner, I don't create anything myself. I love what I've seen of Weasyl's commission options, but with the restrictions of collections, I can't see myself really hanging around too much, as great a site as it might be. Which in turn could actually keep artists themselves away if they're after paid work.

I feel it also needs to be pointed out that commissioners are paying for commissioned works, and hence should be able to display them with a little more freedom. All credit to the deserving artists of course, I just feel there needs to be a happier balance.

Just my two bobs. :)

Great looking work so far though, certainly keen to give it a go if I get an invite or when it opens.

Roki
10-12-2012, 02:11 PM
I agree with the ability to tag a creator vs. just sharing as a collection, this could also work for collaborations by allowing tagging collaborators. It should just be an extra field to enter either a Weasyl username or a url to the creator/collaborator's page. Add in two checkboxes: "I collaborated on this piece with this person" and "This piece was commissioned from this person." Then have the option to add additional collaborators for submissions that are done by multiple people.

Temrin
10-12-2012, 02:29 PM
I agree with the idea of the client being able to add the piece to their collection. Because yes, an artist might forget. Mind you it shouldnt take too much just to note/comment on it asking for one if you are the client. >. > But i do understand what people are saying.

The idea of adding Artists/Character tags, kind of like what e621 does is an interesting concept. But then, i still like the concept of collections but think they need a front page view, not a seperate page. Due to one of the reasons above being the person doesnt do any art themselves. So there should be an option to have the collections on their front page alongside the main gallery, or an option to hide the main gallery, etc.

RadioCatastrophe
10-12-2012, 09:57 PM
I've said this in another suggestions thread, making account titles such as "Artist" "Musician" "Writer" "Watcher/Follower/Fan" "Commissioner/Client" it could change how the profile page works, easily allowing the user to ignore having to disable or enable things on their page such as the commission status bar. Some sort of Guest Art gallery would be nice, instead of reverting to collections when an artist isn't present on the site and the main gallery can be reserved for work made by you and/or with others.

Mihari
10-12-2012, 10:59 PM
Or maybe instead of sending a message or a shout or a comment, have a little button that sends a request to add it to the collection that the artist just has to approve?

Luketh
10-12-2012, 11:26 PM
The only problem with asking or speaking to the artist about it, is that far too many artists I've dealt with stop responding once they consider their job done. Regardless of errors on their part or even a simple request for the high resolution copy. Costs them their 20% tip, but is still highly frustrating.

The majority of artists are extremely good with communication though, it's just that few that would make this system difficult.

Temrin
10-13-2012, 12:05 AM
This is definitely true. i have encountered problems myself. But it would probably help to have it there anyways. So in case an artist does forget, it can at least be tried.

Zal
10-18-2012, 10:43 AM
I actually made a journal on FA concerning this, so far the collection thing seems to be my biggest issue I see with the site. HERE/ (www.furaffinity.net/journal/3937335/)

I kinda feels like the system screws over commissioners, cause it requires us to get permission to have it in our collections, and what's to stop someone from claiming it was for them, and then the artist not knowing its not the actual commissioner, or even just not caring, and going, "ok, sure, whatever I have to do to be left alone". Again, the issue of descriptions and comments is there too, the description an artist may make may be nowhere near as involved as the commissioner, like on a ref sheet, having additional info on a character in the description, also an artist may not want some of the comments on their gallery that the commissioner may welcome.

Now don't get me wrong, it's great for space saving and organizational reasons, but like I said, it really feels like it screws commissioners over, and makes a lot of extra work for a artists, especially ones that do a lot of commissions.

RadioCatastrophe
10-18-2012, 12:32 PM
I actually made a journal on FA concerning this, so far the collection thing seems to be my biggest issue I see with the site. HERE/ (http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/3937335/)

I kinda feels like the system screws over commissioners, cause it requires us to get permission to have it in our collections, and what's to stop someone from claiming it was for them, and then the artist not knowing its not the actual commissioner, or even just not caring, and going, "ok, sure, whatever I have to do to be left alone". Again, the issue of descriptions and comments is there too, the description an artist may make may be nowhere near as involved as the commissioner, like on a ref sheet, having additional info on a character in the description, also an artist may not want some of the comments on their gallery that the commissioner may welcome.

Now don't get me wrong, it's great for space saving and organizational reasons, but like I said, it really feels like it screws commissioners over, and makes a lot of extra work for a artists, especially ones that do a lot of commissions.

https://www.weasyl.com/help/collections

If you'd take a gander at that page you'd see they don't have an issue with you uploading commissions yourself (well it was discussed by a mod elsewhere but it takes bases about it a little there too) just as long as the artist doesn't wish to showcase it, and you have permission to re-post. I know some artists don't allow you to re-post certain works that they produce for you and collections make it easy for a commissioner buying such artwork to still have people know they got a new piece.

Zal
10-18-2012, 12:54 PM
https://www.weasyl.com/help/collections

If you'd take a gander at that page you'd see they don't have an issue with you uploading commissions yourself (well it was discussed by a mod elsewhere but it takes bases about it a little there too) just as long as the artist doesn't wish to showcase it, and you have permission to re-post. I know some artists don't allow you to re-post certain works that they produce for you and collections make it easy for a commissioner buying such artwork to still have people know they got a new piece.

I have read that page, and yeah, under those circumstances uploading pieces yourself would make sense, its the stuff that they DO post that I see issues with, cause you gotta get permission to have it in your collection, and the other issues I mentioned.

RadioCatastrophe
10-18-2012, 01:05 PM
Well it's been suggested, and being worked on to have commissioners request for pieces to be added to their collection, as well as a few other things you stated in your journal such as their own description being added to that of the original posters description so long as the artist allows it. As far as comments go, you need to level with the artist as a commissioner and keep any murry purry/creepy comments to your personal page or in private (forum pm, mainsite notes, or even a messenger). Such comments might be acceptable in your eyes but to public eyes it might not be and its best not to offend anyone even if it is your paid for work the artist still has rights over it, and possibly soon if someone has suggested it or if it's on the list already, artists might be able to disable comments all together. :/

Zal
10-18-2012, 01:22 PM
I also addressed the requesting of collections thing, what's to stop some person who is NOT the commissioner from sending that request? I mean, yeah, the artist should have enough sense to go, "no, that's not who I did that for." But I know there are artists out there that would just say yes to get the notification to go away. I personally don't feel like that would be an issue, since I only commission people I know somewhat well (usually).

As for descriptions, having them added onto the artists post may work for some things where the description is just a bio of a character, details and inspiration of a picture, and that kinda stuff, again, all stuff that I would put in a description, but looking at it from an all encompassing view, there are people that will want to put murry/purry/creepy descriptions on a pic, of which the artist may not like, but it was still something that the commissioner bought, so it's there right to post whatever description they want.

The same thing goes for comments, a lot of comments I make or receive on pieces I commission remain very tame, even on the mature stuff, but there are people out there that welcome and even try to encourage those kind of comments, which on THEIR post is fine, but again, the artist may not like seeing that stuff, so again, possible conflict of interests.

So, you're a preference to artists, even though the piece is something someone paid for, "here, this is for you, but you cant do anything I don't want you to do with it" which with some things is fine, like claiming it as you're own work, or selling copies of it, yeah, that's bad, but saying, "I don't like the kind of comments people make on your submission of it, or the description you put on it, so I'm not gonna let you."

the way it feels like it's set up alienates commissioners, so whats the point in having a site that is artist friendly, but creates an environment that doesn't work well for it's customers?

Again, I'm not on the actual site, all of this is based on what I've read, seen and heard.

RadioCatastrophe
10-18-2012, 03:23 PM
I think artists actually care who goes around with their art enough to ask what their FA name was or to send them an message on w/e site they were commissioned from for that piece. I don't know what kinda artists you commission but the ones I commission at least have common sense and decency to care about their customer. And why would you up and change usernames without notifying them? If you want the art to be viewable on your profile you should also take the extra mile to make sure the artist knows its you and you'd like to add it to your collections.

It's on the artists page, you have to respect that they do not want to see that or deal with comments concerning it. I'm sure even after allowing the descriptions they have a way of pulling that ability from the commissioner(s) at any time. Plus if you MUST post such descriptions as I said before you can do it in private within your own profile page (post a journal or an image saying "HEY LOOK HERE!" and link the image you're describing with it).

Again, having respect for other people is something to take into account here, many don't and thus an artist could possibly opt out of allowing comments on the submissions. Heck they could allow the commission to re-upload it if they asked them before hand, it isn't hard to talk to someone and make arrangements if you know these sort of things usually happen on your own submissions.

Never said that, I ordered a bust piece from someone who said I couldn't re-upload it, I was fine with that, but they allowed me to crop it and use it in banners and avatars which was perfectly fine with me because I agreed to those terms, so I'm don't have a preference to anyone I agreed to their terms. I could've easily walked away and commissioned someone else but I chose not to. Artists have all the rights to an image they drew you only have rights to the character depicted in the drawing and nothing more unless you pay for more. And yes they have every right to say that! It's on their page! If you ASK them if you can re-upload to have such comments ensue on YOUR PAGE then by all means ask and do so!

Art sites are like portfolios, it was never about the customer, you chose to join a site for artists to discuss and share things with one another and anyone else willing to use those resources. This site does make it easier for artists to show potential customers what they offer and such but it was never about the customer (in my opinion) it's about an art community coming together and sharing art with one another. Customers don't really do much here aside from line artists pockets and possibly help out in the development of the site itself if they buy premium accounts or merch. And who says this doesn't work for customers? I only see a slight few complaining about something that's suppose to help both artists and commissioners find common ground, so there isn't duplicates of art floating around, and as I and a mod or two have said before you can still upload it on your own merit so long as credit is given to the artist.