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RX-149Dragonite
10-08-2012, 02:50 AM
Basically as it says in the topic, things that have tags that I have filtered are appearing in my watchbox if an artist I watch posts such stuff.

Ben
10-08-2012, 03:34 AM
Okay, so:

1) Is it a standard tag filter?
2) What is the tag in question?
3) What submission(s) is this happening with?

Kihari
10-08-2012, 03:48 AM
Added a check for blocked tags when selecting users to notify of a submission; issue is left open until we can be sure it is fully resolved

RX-149Dragonite
10-08-2012, 10:50 AM
Okay, so:

1) Is it a standard tag filter?
2) What is the tag in question?
3) What submission(s) is this happening with?

Standard tag filter, set to adult only, and mine in question was "furry" (Shocking, I know), and I deleted the picture from my messages already, so I can't tell you which.


Added a check for blocked tags when selecting users to notify of a submission; issue is left open until we can be sure it is fully resolved

Neat, thank you.

Ben
10-08-2012, 12:30 PM
Gotcha. I would recommend adding a filter for "anthro" too, since I'm sure you're not interested in seeing adult work of anthro characters that lack fur. Just a hunch.

RX-149Dragonite
10-08-2012, 05:15 PM
Gotcha. I would recommend adding a filter for "anthro" too, since I'm sure you're not interested in seeing adult work of anthro characters that lack fur. Just a hunch.

Yeah, I suppose, but not everybody tags their stuff with "anthro" or "furry" or broad terms like that, and I'm definitely not entering every animal in the whole world in my filter either.

Morphology
10-08-2012, 09:54 PM
I'd suggest "anthro" and "furry", since they're synonymous. There was a suggestion that popped up about adding tagging aliases and implications, which would help streamline the tagging and filtering system, so that would be neat.

I've also been going through recently submitted works and adding proper subject tags (human/anthro/furry/robot/pokemon/etc) and notifying people about it, and everyone's been very nice and helpful so far. I also added a reminder to the site discussion thread, so hopefully that will help. :)

RX-149Dragonite
10-09-2012, 12:47 AM
I've also been going through recently submitted works and adding proper subject tags (human/anthro/furry/robot/pokemon/etc) and notifying people about it, and everyone's been very nice and helpful so far. I also added a reminder to the site discussion thread, so hopefully that will help. :)

I've been doing that too, and it was fine until today, where I got basically "fuck off, if you don't like it" replies to my notes.

Morphology
10-09-2012, 01:17 PM
I've been doing that too, and it was fine until today, where I got basically "fuck off, if you don't like it" replies to my notes.

I'm sorry that you got such a rude response like that. Despite a high amount of furry art this is not a furry-only site, and a person has all the right to see or filter what they want. And it is the submitter's responsibility to make sure the art is properly tagged in consideration to others.

I went through the submissions from last night all the way to this morning, and the amount of tags needing correction has gone down significantly, so that really helps. Hopefully the filtering system will be more thorough for you now. Once we have a way to browse oldest submissions first, then I'll get back and work on the tags on the older stuff.

RX-149Dragonite
10-09-2012, 01:26 PM
I went through the submissions from last night all the way to this morning, and the amount of tags needing correction has gone down significantly, so that really helps. Hopefully the filtering system will be more thorough for you now. Once we have a way to browse oldest submissions first, then I'll get back and work on the tags on the older stuff.

Thank you for your work, it's greatly appreciated.

Ben
10-09-2012, 02:07 PM
I would suggest in the future that if you find someone who's not tagging their work as anthro, just put a report into the system, and we'll handle it. We definitely want to make sure yours, and everyone's tag filters are respected.

RX-149Dragonite
10-19-2012, 02:26 PM
Well, I have to say it, but the tagging situation is getting worse.

Someone last night decided to upload dozens of pictures that should have been tagged with a furry, or at least anthro, tag. When I asked them politely to make sure they tag their pictures properly, they told me that if it was a problem I should be the one to go through and tag every picture they posted. Not to mention they also said that Weasyl was a furry site, and not a site for everybody.

There needs to be a solution to these problems, as it seems they're getting worse, and I can't think of a solution that would help stop this problem.

Ben
10-19-2012, 02:33 PM
Not to mention they also said that Weasyl was a furry site, and not a site for everybody.

It would seem that this misconception is likely the root of the problem. We were planning to make efforts to disspell this notion, as we have seen people referring to this as a 'furry' site a lot, but we figured it could wait. However, it does seem that problems are presenting themselves more and more as a result of this. I'll talk to the staff to see what we can do.

MukiHyena
10-19-2012, 03:40 PM
I've been doing that too, and it was fine until today, where I got basically "fuck off, if you don't like it" replies to my notes.

Excuse me, but this is NOT how I replied. I did not respond in as rude of a manner as you suggest, and I don't appreciate you blowing what I say out of proportion.

I asked you to point out the rule that states I need to list my work as "Furry." To which I responded:


That particular rule is extremely gray-area, and mentions nothing specific about tagging submissions as furry. It mentions "relevant tags," which is to be interpreted by the user.

I apologize, but I will not tag my works as furry, as I do not see it as a particularly necessary tag. You are on a furry-run site. You must expect there to be furry art. Labeling me as irresponsible and threatening me for not tagging my works as furry on a furry site is a little extreme, don't you think?

I have to ask, what will you do when this site goes live and an influx of new users flock in with works not tagged furry, because they rightfully assume this place is furry centric? The place will be flooded with all sorts of submissions you will likely not want to see! If you don't want to look at furry submissions, I suggest a site like DeviantArt.

My tags are editable by all users. Like I said before, If users wish to appropriately tag my work, I am not against it!

If you have a problem with how I'm managing my submissions, please take it up with the staff and I will discuss the matter with them if necessary. I've already contacted them about this matter, myself, and am awaiting their reply.

Thank you.

Forgive me, but I spent four hours porting 150 submissions my gallery from FA to this site, leaving my tags as flexible as possible for users to add tags as needed, which is a feature of this site has been selling.

So far, I have not had any complaints or problems concerning my tags by any users other than RX-149Dragonite, who has repeatedly noted me about them. If I'm going to be harassed repeatedly, bossed around and threatened over how to tag my adult works by a person who's not staff, who takes what I say and completely twists it to make me sound like an asshole when I'm trying to be calm and collected, who follows Mutsurf, a hardcore furry porn artist, and who draws nearly-pornographic furry submissions like you see here, https://www.weasyl.com/submission/2324 and doesn't tag them as furry, then I will not be using this site.

The last thing I expected was to come in receiving note after note about how I need to add furry tags on what many would rightfully assume is a furry-centric site. How will this situation be handled during the influx of users who come in thinking it's a new alternative to FA who will not list their works as "furry" and "anthro" off the bat? They will rightfully assume this is a furry-centered site, given it was shown off at Anthrocon to a bunch of furries? BY a bunch of furries?

I donated to this site to get access and had full intentions of becoming a paid member if this site were successful. But as it is now, there need to be better systems in place, otherwise, as I said before, I will not be using and supporting this site.

Ray
10-19-2012, 03:46 PM
I'll have to agree to Muki here. Every single bit of advertising I've heard about this site was that it claimed to be a Furaffinity-beating art community, yammered about by furries themselves. I donated to get away from an annoying admin staff and a horrid community in the aforementioned site. If I'm already reading about users and staff alike that are going to meddle with other donating users based on poorly-defined TOS, I'm going to just keep any donations or business I was going to invest in this Weasyl venture to myself.

Ben
10-19-2012, 04:44 PM
Well, part of what we did in order to make it clearer that we want users to tag their work as "anthro" if it involves anthro characters is by putting a disclaimer beneath the tag-entering field, and by also including it in a news post a week or so ago. This site did start off as a site that was meant to be furry-only (which is why the staff is mainly furries, although we've been expanding our non-furry staff side as we've gone on), but as we went on, an understanding was reached that it's not just the furry community that needed a better art site-- it's all of us. So, we dropped all things from our marketing that explicitly said we were a furry community.

However, of course, there is the implicit stuff, such as our staff largely being from the furry community, the panel done at AC, and the massive word of mouth being spread through furry sites. We've mainly been focusing on this community because, considering how many of us hail from it, we know from first-hand experience that although we do think everybody could use a better site, the furry community seems to want it more than anyone else. We know you guys have the passion and desire to give this site the momentum it needs to break out of the funk some vaporware sites have suffered from, and to help it be as prosperous as possible. So, that's essentially where it ended up focusing. We are planning to make more of a push to make our intentions of being a site open to all people much more clear as the beta period goes on.

But yes, on both sides, I would appreciate if we could do what we can to tone down the hostilities here. We obviously do not want to lose any of you as members, and we would rather work on devising a solution that makes everyone happy, instead of choosing one over the other. Part of the reason we didn't want Weasyl to be centric to one specific community is so we could feel proud to tell people about it that weren't a part of that single community, so we could have works from people of all different walks of life, and create a truly unique site with an incredibly varied and diverse make-up of art. That here is the ultimate goal, and we hope to achieve it as well as we can.

MukiHyena
10-19-2012, 05:21 PM
I understand this site wants to have as broad of a demographic as possible. I can appreciate the fact that the idea behind this site is to welcome any sort of artist, and provide a quality user experience for them. I appreciate that the rules to this site are very lenient, and literally anybody who wants can come and post their art.

However, everything that I'd gathered up until this point is that this site would be a superior alternative to FA that offers many necessary features that FA doesn't, and likely never will. The fact that this site is slowly drifting away from that concept and more towards "General art," catering more and more to the other side and creating this huge separation between the two, is saddening. General art is a field that is not lacking in decent sites in the slightest, there are sites like DeviantArt and many others out there packed full of wonderful features. The Furry community, however, does not have many feature-rich sites to turn to, which is why I had high hopes for this place to be successful. I understand you wanting to appeal to a broad audience, if this site continues to drift in the direction of separating furry art and non-furry art, it will not have my business.

It's not just me. Many furries who are sick and fed up with FA's moderation and management are irritated by what has transpired in this situation. There is a huge discussion thread on Lulz, a site that is more than fed up with how FA is run. As a warning, the link below is a bit adult-oriented and has some nasty language.

http://lulz.net/furi/res/2336475.html

TangoDelahunt
10-19-2012, 05:27 PM
I see what you are saying, Ben. However, most of the people who will be coming here will pretty much assume it's a furry site regardless. I mean furry mascot, mostly furry staff, and mostly a furry user base. Not meaning to 'poop in the soup' but I think the train has left the station for the most part. When the site goes 'live' after beta there is going to be a huge 'art dump' of untagged furry art. How are we going to deal with all of that? I have already seen the Lulz.net turds cawing about this as the first nail in Weasyl's coffin.

RX-149Dragonite
10-19-2012, 05:31 PM
Excuse me, but this is NOT how I replied. I did not respond in as rude of a manner as you suggest, and I don't appreciate you blowing what I say out of proportion.

I know it isn't. Look at the post date that you quoted. It's way before I messaged you last night. I was talking about another person.

Also, Mutsurf is a friend of mine, regardless of what he draws, and I don't really appreciate you dragging him into something he isn't even involved in.

MukiHyena
10-19-2012, 05:40 PM
Perhaps you shouldn't be going around making new members feel unwelcome by backseat moderating and telling them to add tags and then threatening to contact the staff if they don't abide because the subject of furry porn on a site run by furries that allows adult submissions offends you.

I've seen nobody else complain about this but you.

Fay V
10-19-2012, 05:41 PM
I see what you are saying, Ben. However, most of the people who will be coming here will pretty much assume it's a furry site regardless. I mean furry mascot, mostly furry staff, and mostly a furry user base. Not meaning to 'poop in the soup' but I think the train has left the station for the most part. When the site goes 'live' after beta there is going to be a huge 'art dump' of untagged furry art. How are we going to deal with all of that? I have already seen the Lulz.net turds cawing about this as the first nail in Weasyl's coffin.
We will inform the users of the broad categories we would like covered such as human, anthro, and gender, and go to work tagging things so our search and block system works.

It isn't just for blocking and "I don't want to see this ever" but also for searches. If I want to browse human art. I am able to search accurately.
I want to make it clear, not having completely accurate tags is not a violation. Spamming the tag box with irrelevant tags or other system abuse is labelled as a violation, but not having "anthro" or "furry" attached isn't going to get you banned or infracted.
It helps, to have the artist cover the broad categories in the initial submission, but it isn't something we are hunting people down over to ban them for.

In theory this would be nice to bring people together of different fandoms and have a place they can post their furry and human works. If someone wishes to exist on the site with the intent to never see furry art, that is on them, but we aren't attempting to say "you go play in this corner, and you in this one, never interact ever"

TangoDelahunt
10-19-2012, 05:55 PM
We will inform the users of the broad categories we would like covered such as human, anthro, and gender, and go to work tagging things so our search and block system works.

It isn't just for blocking and "I don't want to see this ever" but also for searches. If I want to browse human art. I am able to search accurately.
I want to make it clear, not having completely accurate tags is not a violation. Spamming the tag box with irrelevant tags or other system abuse is labelled as a violation, but not having "anthro" or "furry" attached isn't going to get you banned or infracted.
It helps, to have the artist cover the broad categories in the initial submission, but it isn't something we are hunting people down over to ban them for.

In theory this would be nice to bring people together of different fandoms and have a place they can post their furry and human works. If someone wishes to exist on the site with the intent to never see furry art, that is on them, but we aren't attempting to say "you go play in this corner, and you in this one, never interact ever"

I get what you're saying. But you know as well as I do that people are lazy. Path of least resistance and all. I've talked to a couple of people who are volunteering themselves to adding tags to submissions and the task seems over whelming. I understand it helps with the search and block functions but isn't there a mandatory 'three tags minimum' setting on the submissions already? That alone should do it. Since users can tag submissions too wouldn't the problem sort itself out anyway?

That's just my observation. It's making a tidal wave out of a white cap.

Fay V
10-19-2012, 06:00 PM
I get what you're saying. But you know as well as I do that people are lazy. Path of least resistance and all. I've talked to a couple of people who are volunteering themselves to adding tags to submissions and the task seems over whelming. I understand it helps with the search and block functions but isn't there a mandatory 'three tags minimum' setting on the submissions already? That alone should do it. Since users can tag submissions too wouldn't the problem sort itself out anyway?

That's just my observation. It's making a tidal wave out of a white cap.

In theory, and we will be having ferrets tagging. The answer is really just, ask the artist nicely to add broad tags.
We're not infracting or banning someone for missing tags. If they go out of their way to post irrelevant tags, tags to abuse the search, or just make 3 useless tags there might be a problem, but not knowing "please post this as anthro" won't get you banned, it's an honest mistake. We have staff that are going through and adding the appropriate tags, and hopefully in time the community can cover it as well.

RX-149Dragonite
10-19-2012, 06:02 PM
Perhaps you shouldn't be going around making new members feel unwelcome by backseat moderating and telling them to add tags and then threatening to contact the staff if they don't abide because the subject of furry porn on a site run by furries that allows adult submissions offends you.

I only threatened the staff involvement option because, like you said, you've uploaded 150 pictures without tags that would help in filtering/finding. Nobody but the staff could go through and re-tag all of those things. I really would rather not involving the staff at all.


We will inform the users of the broad categories we would like covered such as human, anthro, and gender, and go to work tagging things so our search and block system works.

It isn't just for blocking and "I don't want to see this ever" but also for searches. If I want to browse human art. I am able to search accurately.
I want to make it clear, not having completely accurate tags is not a violation. Spamming the tag box with irrelevant tags or other system abuse is labelled as a violation, but not having "anthro" or "furry" attached isn't going to get you banned or infracted.
It helps, to have the artist cover the broad categories in the initial submission, but it isn't something we are hunting people down over to ban them for.

In theory this would be nice to bring people together of different fandoms and have a place they can post their furry and human works. If someone wishes to exist on the site with the intent to never see furry art, that is on them, but we aren't attempting to say "you go play in this corner, and you in this one, never interact ever"

All of this is very true and reflects my sentiments about the matter.


I understand it helps with the search and block functions but isn't there a mandatory 'three tags minimum' setting on the submissions already? That alone should do it. Since users can tag submissions too wouldn't the problem sort itself out anyway?

Considering we get situations where mass uploads happen, and things aren't tagged right, user based tagging won't work all the time.

Also, if you haven't noticed the other thread about this, there's some concern with user based tagging being abused as well.

Gotta love a website in beta.

Oly
10-19-2012, 06:02 PM
I understand this site wants to have as broad of a demographic as possible. I can appreciate the fact that the idea behind this site is to welcome any sort of artist, and provide a quality user experience for them. I appreciate that the rules to this site are very lenient, and literally anybody who wants can come and post their art.

However, everything that I'd gathered up until this point is that this site would be a superior alternative to FA that offers many necessary features that FA doesn't, and likely never will. The fact that this site is slowly drifting away from that concept and more towards "General art," catering more and more to the other side and creating this huge separation between the two, is saddening. General art is a field that is not lacking in decent sites in the slightest, there are sites like DeviantArt and many others out there packed full of wonderful features. The Furry community, however, does not have many feature-rich sites to turn to, which is why I had high hopes for this place to be successful. I understand you wanting to appeal to a broad audience, if this site continues to drift in the direction of separating furry art and non-furry art, it will not have my business.

It's not just me. Many furries who are sick and fed up with FA's moderation and management are irritated by what has transpired in this situation. There is a huge discussion thread on Lulz, a site that is more than fed up with how FA is run. As a warning, the link below is a bit adult-oriented and has some nasty language.

http://lulz.net/furi/res/2336475.html

DA is a cesspool of unresponsive and childish moderation, art theft and stupid 12 year olds - not that 12 years olds can't be intelligent or talented, but the majority on DA are not.

And anyway, weasyl isn't trying to not be a furry site, they're trying to be inclusive for anybody who wants to use it. if your work has anthros it should be tagged as such, if it has humans it should be tagged as such and if it has shishkebab and turkeys those should be tagged.

And how will we deal with a dump of untagged furry art? tag it and educate the people not tagging that they should be doing it themselves. How else would we deal with it? that's kinda the reason users can add tags in the first place.

finally: the tagging system is there so that people can block shit they don't want to see, along with finding stuff they do. that doesn't work if people don't tag. Tag your work and there is no damn problem.

TangoDelahunt
10-19-2012, 06:05 PM
In theory, and we will be having ferrets tagging. The answer is really just, ask the artist nicely to add broad tags.
We're not infracting or banning someone for missing tags. If they go out of their way to post irrelevant tags, tags to abuse the search, or just make 3 useless tags there might be a problem, but not knowing "please post this as anthro" won't get you banned, it's an honest mistake. We have staff that are going through and adding the appropriate tags, and hopefully in time the community can cover it as well.

Hope whoever is doing the tagging has a lot of free time and patience. Something that might save a lot of leg work and a few headaches is have a small mention of this somewhere on the submission page like "For better search results you can add broad tags such as 'furry' or 'non-furry' for example". I'm not trying to be a douche about this. Just trying to help. :3

Ben
10-19-2012, 06:08 PM
Okay, I'm noticing there's a strong misconception going about here. To be clear, we decided way back in March that this wasn't going to be a furry art site exclusively. The reason the site is largely furry right now is because most of our staff's social networks extend to furries, and we know the furry community are the ones who want a better art site more than anyone. However, we did attract a number of people not from the community, and I've been telling all my friends at my University about the site, because I do feel genuinely proud of it, and do not want to feel like it isn't something I can tell them about because they aren't part of a specific group.

I'm also noticing some people saying "Other communities don't need better art sites!" But here's the thing-- I know many people who use more general-audience art sites that have just as many complaints for it as one might for other furry art sites; the strong presence of photographic nudes, the lack of tag filtering, the moderation-- It isn't just the furry community that wants something better.

We are definitely not looking to alienate any of our users; It is very much feasible for us to be able to have a site that caters to many kinds of people. Tag filtering has far and beyond been one of the most demanded features that people wanted for this site-- But of course, it is a system that can only work if we build a community that is courteous to one another, and considerate. After all, it only takes one minute or less to add tags to a submission.

To be clear, we're not trying to cater to one specific person; we are trying to set a standard for the future, because there will likely be other users who come to this site who want to enable adult work, but do not want to see adult work of anthro characters. We want to make it clear that in enforcing this policy, we are looking ahead to the future, and are not just shutting out most of our users, because want a very diverse community. I do agree that things can be done so the tagging system is less problematic, and so the issue of tagging things as anthro (or anything else really-- we've been asking our non-furry users to tag things as human as well). We are doing everything we can to make sure all parties feel welcomed here, and we ask that you all give us some time to rectify these issues.

So please, if you have any suggestions at all, do not hesitate to voice them. We are doing what we can to be as constructive and helpful as possible.

MukiHyena
10-19-2012, 06:12 PM
DA is a cesspool of unresponsive and childish moderation, art theft and stupid 12 year olds - not that 12 years olds can't be intelligent or talented, but the majority on DA are not.

They're also the biggest art site on the internet. Also, completely missed my point that there is no lack of quality general art sites.


And anyway, weasyl isn't trying to not be a furry site, they're trying to be inclusive for anybody who wants to use it. if your work has anthros it should be tagged as such, if it has humans it should be tagged as such and if it has shishkebab and turkeys those should be tagged.

Talking books are anthro. A cat with a human face is anthro. The Brave Little Toaster is anthro. And what about furryxhuman stuff? People could search for human art and find some human chick getting pounded by a rottie or something because it has both in the tags.


And how will we deal with a dump of untagged furry art? tag it and educate the people not tagging that they should be doing it themselves. How else would we deal with it? that's kinda the reason users can add tags in the first place.

You can't honestly expect users flocking in from FA to do that. This site has been marketed as easy to use and extremely user friendly, and I guarantee the biggest complaint people will be giving is the tagging system, because it will be far more of a pain in the ass to deal with than clicking "submit" with a few keywords on FA, which also searches through titles and descriptions.


finally: the tagging system is there so that people can block shit they don't want to see, along with finding stuff they do. that doesn't work if people don't tag. Tag your work and there is no damn problem.

Read above. Telling me specifically to tag my work won't account for however many people flock here.

Fay V
10-19-2012, 06:15 PM
I only threatened the staff involvement option because, like you said, you've uploaded 150 pictures without tags that would help in filtering/finding. Nobody but the staff could go through and re-tag all of those things. I really would rather not involving the staff at all.

All of this is very true and reflects my sentiments about the matter.


Considering we get situations where mass uploads happen, and things aren't tagged right, user based tagging won't work all the time.

Also, if you haven't noticed the other thread about this, there's some concern with user based tagging being abused as well.

Gotta love a website in beta.
Just to point out, please don't threaten to report people the the mods. If it is worth reporting then report it, don't threaten people with reports.
If you report tags the staff will go through to make sure the right tags are in, you need to realize that currently, we have to do this by hand.

People also need to realize that there will be some things falling through the cracks. we can't screen before uploading. We'll correct reported tags, but you're on a public site, you might not see absolutely everything perfectly at all times, especially in our beta.
If you see something that needs tagging, please tag it, if it's a lot of stuff, report it. If you're an artist, adding what you can helps us out.


Hope whoever is doing the tagging has a lot of free time and patience. Something that might save a lot of leg work and a few headaches is have a small mention of this somewhere on the submission page like "For better search results you can add broad tags such as 'furry' or 'non-furry' for example". I'm not trying to be a douche about this. Just trying to help. :3

We currently have staff that are taking a few hours to browse submissions and add the right tags. when we get a report we go through and add the tags. Hopefully when the site goes public we'll have a system to make this easier, but yeah.
Having suggestions on the page is a good idea. Also on the block and search pages. Having linked tags will be nice too.

Ben
10-19-2012, 06:17 PM
If anything, we do not want to do anything here that strengthens an "us vs. them" dichotomy. Instead of making grand declarations about not wanting to use this site, it would be much more helpful to us if you could articulate what you think we can do to make sure such a dichotomy is not perpetuated. I saw someone suggest that the universal tag be "bipedal" instead of anthro or furry. Does that sound agreeable to anyone, or does anyone have a different suggestion?

MukiHyena
10-19-2012, 06:20 PM
If anything, we do not want to do anything here that strengthens an "us vs. them" dichotomy. Instead of making grand declarations about not wanting to use this site, it would be much more helpful to us if you could articulate what you think we can do to make sure such a dichotomy is not perpetuated. I saw someone suggest that the universal tag be "bipedal" instead of anthro or furry. Does that sound agreeable to anyone, or does anyone have a different suggestion?

Alright, I apologize for threatening no business as I'm being a bit more emotional at the moment, but you have to understand the frustration of joining a site with high hopes, and immediately being bombarded with threats and demands from a non-admin.

How about a mandatory checkbox near the tags that indicates whether or not the submission is furry/human/anime/etc that will add it to the tags?

TangoDelahunt
10-19-2012, 06:20 PM
Hopefully when the site goes public we'll have a system to make this easier, but yeah.
Having suggestions on the page is a good idea. Also on the block and search pages. Having linked tags will be nice too.

That would solve a lot of problems. The good thing is that these issues are being addressed in Beta. I think Muki's biggest issue is what they see as some 'random' person trying to nanny them then threaten to dime them to the admins/mods. Muki, correct me if I'm wrong. I agree with just telling the mods if it's a real issue and let -them- deal with it.

No one wants an art site Batman.

- - - Updated - - -


How about a mandatory checkbox near the tags that indicates whether or not the submission is furry/human/anime/etc?

That would work too. Good suggestion.

RX-149Dragonite
10-19-2012, 06:21 PM
Just to point out, please don't threaten to report people the the mods. If it is worth reporting then report it, don't threaten people with reports.

Alright, understood. I apologize for that.


How about a mandatory checkbox near the tags that indicates whether or not the submission is furry/human/anime/etc?

I like it, not bad thinking.

Fay V
10-19-2012, 06:28 PM
That would solve a lot of problems. The good thing is that these issues are being addressed in Beta. I think Muki's biggest issue is what they see as some 'random' person trying to nanny them then threaten to dime them to the admins/mods. Muki, correct me if I'm wrong. I agree with just telling the mods if it's a real issue and let -them- deal with it.

No one wants an art site Batman.

- - - Updated - - -



That would work too. Good suggestion.
No, and I agree with that. I think that users should add the tags or report it to use. We note the artist in case they don't know that they can use things like the anthro tag.
No user should ever be threatening to report someone. Either you do, or you don't.


Alright, I apologize for threatening no business as I'm being a bit more emotional at the moment, but you have to understand the frustration of joining a site, and immediately being bombarded with threats and demands from a non-admin.

How about a mandatory checkbox near the tags that indicates whether or not the submission is furry/human/anime/etc that will add it to the tags?

This is a great idea thank you.

Ben
10-19-2012, 06:28 PM
How about a mandatory checkbox near the tags that indicates whether or not the submission is furry/human/anime/etc that will add it to the tags?

Having sub-sub categories based on content rating is something that's been proposed. The system will need to allow users to choose multiple categories though, since some things will fall into more than one.

Oly
10-19-2012, 06:30 PM
They're also the biggest art site on the internet. Also, completely missed my point that there is no lack of quality general art sites.


Talking books are anthro. A cat with a human face is anthro. The Brave Little Toaster is anthro. And what about furryxhuman stuff? People could search for human art and find some human chick getting pounded by a rottie or something because it has both in the tags.


You can't honestly expect users flocking in from FA to do that. This site has been marketed as easy to use and extremely user friendly, and I guarantee the biggest complaint people will be giving is the tagging system, because it will be far more of a pain in the ass to deal with than clicking "submit" with a few keywords on FA, which also searches through titles and descriptions.


Read above. Telling me specifically to tag my work won't account for however many people flock here.



No, you missed my point. Yeah it's the biggest art site, but it's also not what i or many people would call quality, because the mods and admins suck, art theft is rampant and there's a huge amount of stupid trolls and shitty art with no effort to it, along with 'artistic' nudes that are anything BUT artistic.
You may notice if you look through this forum a bit a thread dedicated to discussing dissatisfations with DA, and if i recall there is an identical one on the FA forums even. And I've talked to quite a few people unrelated to either site, even people I know in real life, who are just as dissatisfied. So that argument holds no water; lots of people are jsut as fed up with DA as they are with FA.


Yes, those things are anthro, and should be tagged with anthro. If you draw scalies it should have scalies as well an anthro. if you draw talking avocados it should have anthro and fruit. This is a semantic that is pointless to argue, and hopefully there will eventually be implemented a related tagging feature that pops up other tags that might fit when you type one, so you can type anthro and get a bunch of possible related tags - scaly, avian, furry, whatever- and then when you select those get a bunch of other tags you might want to include, etc. etc. therefore making taging much easier. The staff have heard and acknowledged requests for such a feature, and it'll take time to implement, so until then we'd all do well to cooperated to tag shit as effectively as we can. edit: also i see now posts made while i was typing this, mentioning the suggestion of other possible tags like bipedal, or the mandatory check-boxes. I like the check-box idea. not so keen on bipedal personally although it may have some merit.


No, I don't expect every FA transplant to do that, which is the whole point of both the ferrets and users being able to tag. If someone refuses to tag their own shit because they're too lazy, viewers can do it; if they disable that ability it can be reported to a ferret/mod and they can do it.


Finally: ineffective wording on my part. what I meant and should have said was 'If everyone tags their work there is no damn problem.' And again, no I don't expect every single person to, that is why we have user-enabled tagging and ferrets and moderators, to help mitigate the people who don't read the rules closely enough or are just plain lazy.

TangoDelahunt
10-19-2012, 06:35 PM
Having sub-sub categories based on content rating is something that's been proposed. The system will need to allow users to choose multiple categories though, since some things will fall into more than one.

Yes but that 'one extra step' will prevent a mile of leg work for mods, admins, ect. Little tweaks like this is what well make Weasyl a quality site that everyone can enjoy....Except for Klingons. Fuck those guys. :)

MukiHyena
10-19-2012, 06:49 PM
That would solve a lot of problems. The good thing is that these issues are being addressed in Beta. I think Muki's biggest issue is what they see as some 'random' person trying to nanny them then threaten to dime them to the admins/mods. Muki, correct me if I'm wrong. I agree with just telling the mods if it's a real issue and let -them- deal with it.

No one wants an art site Batman.

Precisely the problem.


No, you missed my point. Yeah it's the biggest art site, but it's also not what i or many people would call quality, because the mods and admins suck, art theft is rampant and there's a huge amount of stupid trolls and shitty art with no effort to it, along with 'artistic' nudes that are anything BUT artistic.
You may notice if you look through this forum a bit a thread dedicated to discussing dissatisfations with DA, and if i recall there is an identical one on the FA forums even. And I've talked to quite a few people unrelated to either site, even people I know in real life, who are just as dissatisfied. So that argument holds no water; lots of people are jsut as fed up with DA as they are with FA.

I'm sure we all can agree that DA is filled with a bunch of unnecessary crap, and I personally avoid that place like the plague. They do, however, appeal to the "General Art" demographic in the sense that they all sorts of art from pretty much anybody. Either way, DeviantArt was probably a bad example, how about ConceptArt.org? HentaiFoundry? The point I'm trying to get across is there are tons of feature-rich sites out there that appeal to the demographic of non-furry art. As far as furry art goes, however, not so much. Which is why most users are still over at FA.



Yes, those things are anthro, and should be tagged with anthro. If you draw scalies it should have scalies as well an anthro. if you draw talking avocados it should have anthro and fruit. This is a semantic that is pointless to argue, and hopefully there will eventually be implemented a related tagging feature that pops up other tags that might fit when you type one, so you can type anthro and get a bunch of possible related tags - scaly, avian, furry, whatever- and then when you select those get a bunch of other tags you might want to include, etc. etc. therefore making taging much easier. The staff have heard and acknowledged requests for such a feature, and it'll take time to implement, so until then we'd all do well to cooperated to tag shit as effectively as we can.

The sooner, the better. Being harassed over tags is absolutely obnoxious and when the site goes live, will be an issue that will need to be resolved, because as it is right now this will be a huge problem. People get buttmad very easily if they see something on the internet their little minds can't handle.


No, I don't expect every FA transplant to do that, which is the whole point of both the ferrets and users being able to tag. If someone refuses to tag their own shit because they're too lazy, viewers can do it; if they disable that ability it can be reported to a ferret/mod and they can do it.

Exactly! As I said before, I made sure the tags on the works I submitted are as flexible as possible, ticking off any restraints on my tag options, as the site allows users to add and remove them as they see fit. Which is why I found it extremely obnoxious for someone to come in and try to tell me how to manage my submission tags and then threaten me for not complying with their demands, when the system is so flexible.


Finally: ineffective wording on my part. what I meant and should have said was 'If everyone tags their work there is no damn problem.' And again, no I don't expect every single person to, that is why we have user-enabled tagging and ferrets and moderators, to help mitigate the people who don't read the rules closely enough or are just plain lazy.

Or the people like me who hear of this great new FA alternative that was shown at Anthrocon by a bunch of furries and assume this is site centered mainly furry artwork, but welcomes all artists. I think somebody made the point that tagging things as furry on a furry site is useless, as it's the expected subject matter of the site's content. Sort of like tagging something as "Sex" on HentaiFoundry or E621, or even "Furry" on FurAffinity.

So forgive me if I was mistaken that this is a "furry" site, but given what I'd heard coming in, could you honestly blame me or anybody else?

Ben
10-19-2012, 06:53 PM
So forgive me if I was mistaken that this is a "furry" site, but given what I'd heard coming in, could you honestly blame me or anybody else?

We do not begrudge you for this, and we understand how that happened, due to the word-of-mouth turning into a game of "Whisper Down the Lane." However, we do wish to implore that despite that misconception, that this is still a plenty useable site for people hailing from the furry community, and all communities. After all, this site is still in beta, and we do want to get as many issues worked out as possible here to make it as friendly to use for everyone as possible. Our lead coder should be home soon, and I intend to speak with him about these issues as soon as possible.

TangoDelahunt
10-19-2012, 06:57 PM
So forgive me if I was mistaken that this is a "furry" site, but given what I'd heard coming in, could you honestly blame me or anybody else?

I'm sure the mods and such understand (as stated by Ben). It's going to take time to get the word out that it's a 'general art' site and not -just- a furry haven. The good news is the mods and admins listen to people. That is head and shoulders above other sites *cough*FA*cough*. It's good that the staff is 'hands on' as long as it doesn't turn into a hundred micro-dictatorships, each having it's own interpretation of the rules. I highly doubt it will become that way.

MukiHyena
10-19-2012, 06:57 PM
Thank you, Ben. I'm glad the site is as flexible as it is in it's current state.

TangoDelahunt
10-19-2012, 07:04 PM
Thank you, Ben. I'm glad the site is as flexible as it is in it's current state.

As long as it maintains this trend I think Weasyl will do fine. I'd rather have a decent product with great customer service then a high end product where the service when something is wrong teeth-achingly bad.

Tartii
10-19-2012, 07:16 PM
I have been lurking in this particular forum, since the entire 'tagging' situation was very concerning to me. Several times I wanted to step in, but I have found people are handling it beautifully, and I have almost never seen such maturity in a forum when handling a topic that can be very emotional.
I just want to say that I am THOROUGHLY impressed by all the admins. You approach it with humility, and are eager to do what you can to continue to make this site better. I have not seen admins with such a level head in a very long time.

I was worried that, if people did NOT tag their artwork as furry, there would be much grief and it would be a big issue. But I'm glad this is not the case. In fact, the idea of mandatory 'check boxes' is a fantastic suggestion.

Oly
10-19-2012, 07:24 PM
I'm sure we all can agree that DA is filled with a bunch of unnecessary crap, and I personally avoid that place like the plague. They do, however, appeal to the "General Art" demographic in the sense that they all sorts of art from pretty much anybody. Either way, DeviantArt was probably a bad example, how about ConceptArt.org? HentaiFoundry? The point I'm trying to get across is there are tons of feature-rich sites out there that appeal to the demographic of non-furry art. As far as furry art goes, however, not so much. Which is why most users are still over at FA.

This site does cater to furs though, just not furs exclusively.
And yeah I suppose there aren't many feature rich sites that appeal to furs, but really how many sites actually are as feature rich as DA? it's not their design but the people running it that make it a cesspool.
as for conceptart and hentaifoundry, i've barely been on the former and never heard of the latter until now so I can't really comment on them compared to any other site.


The sooner, the better. Being harassed over tags is absolutely obnoxious and when the site goes live, will be an issue that will need to be resolved, because as it is right now this will be a huge problem. People get buttmad very easily if they see something on the internet their little minds can't handle.

Exactly! As I said before, I made sure the tags on the works I submitted are as flexible as possible, ticking off any restraints on my tag options, as the site allows users to add and remove them as they see fit. Which is why I found it extremely obnoxious for someone to come in and try to tell me how to manage my submission tags and then threaten me for not complying with their demands, when the system is so flexible.

I agree with teh sooner the better, but I don't see Dragonite's actions as quite harassment. At least not his initial action, which was just trying to help educate people to the import of the tagging system. His further actions were not to my understanding intended as harassment and meh probably could have been handled better on his part but that's been dealt with by staff so not much point in beating a dead majestic musclebeast.



Or the people like me who hear of this great new FA alternative that was shown at Anthrocon by a bunch of furries and assume this is site centered mainly furry artwork, but welcomes all artists. I think somebody made the point that tagging things as furry on a furry site is useless, as it's the expected subject matter of the site's content. Sort of like tagging something as "Sex" on HentaiFoundry or E621, or even "Furry" on FurAffinity.

So forgive me if I was mistaken that this is a "furry" site, but given what I'd heard coming in, could you honestly blame me or anybody else?

As my first paragraph; tagging things as furry on FA or fchan or e621, yeah probably kinda dumb, but this is supposed to be welcoming to anybody, not just furs. but I expect the staff will be making that a bit more clear in the future, so meh, for now all we can do is try to make sure that when we talk about Weasyl to other people that we mention that while it does intend to target furs, it's open to all, and should be treated as such.

but of course no, nobody can blame you. and I mean teh site did start out as just furry centric, so yeah the decision to be more actively targeted to a broader audience is gonna add a bit of complication. But if the user-base is helping out in that regard it will ease things a bit... certainly more than people just complaining and being quick to nay-say and bash the site as never going to work. ;3

RX-149Dragonite
10-19-2012, 07:26 PM
So are we good now?

If so, I do want to apologize to any artists I may have came across as rude to, as well as the staff. There are measures I should have taken to mitigate what has occurred. However, as a site in beta, I guess this stuff is bound to happen, right?

TangoDelahunt
10-19-2012, 07:45 PM
So are we good now?

If so, I do want to apologize to any artists I may have came across as rude to, as well as the staff. There are measures I should have taken to mitigate what has occurred. However, as a site in beta, I guess this stuff is bound to happen, right?

I can't and won't speak for everyone but I think the dust has settled on this for the most part. It's wonderful to see things being handled in a civil nature.

Oly
10-19-2012, 07:46 PM
However, as a site in beta, I guess this stuff is bound to happen, right?

Absolutely, and even more so in light of the fact that weasyl's goal is somewhat ambitious.

RX-149Dragonite
10-19-2012, 07:58 PM
I can't and won't speak for everyone but I think the dust has settled on this for the most part. It's wonderful to see things being handled in a civil nature.

Same.

GingerM
10-19-2012, 10:00 PM
IIRC, there was a suggestion a week or two ago to the effect of implementing a tagging system similar to e621.net. I'm not familiar with the nuts and bolts of how that software works, but I don't see it as being out of the realm of possibility to (over time) construct a set of tag synonyms. For example, neko is a short form of both nekomimi and nekomusume, so it should imply both of them. nekomimi in turn should imply kenomomimi, and that should in turn imply anthro.

One question that arises is this: when a tag is a short form for another - neko for nekomimi/nekomusume, herm for hermaphrodite, etc. should a tag implication system also include substitution; i.e., add nekomimi, nekomusume and remove the original neko tag?