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Toshabi
04-30-2014, 12:51 AM
Apparently, this is an actual discussion topic going around my college.



http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2014/04/29/new-star-wars-cast-is-mostly-white-guys/




The article is specifically going over how the casting for the movie is imbalanced to its fanbase and neglects to balance the scales in terms to more races and with females. Thoughts, Weasyl?

Damian
04-30-2014, 12:56 AM
I'm wondering what the fuck Andy Serkis is doing there.

That's pretty much it.

Tycho
04-30-2014, 05:00 AM
Jesus, even Forbes is hopping aboard the SJW train.

Rilvor
04-30-2014, 05:45 AM
" They are very white and very male."

So...if they were slightly white and very male it'd be okay then?

What if they were very white and slightly male?

We could even really push the line with slightly white and "sort of" male. But I think that one might really put off most audiences.

SirCoffeecup
04-30-2014, 06:01 AM
I looked at the cast and I thought to myself: "wow, I'm not looking forward to this".

The casting looked retarded, I could see one or two good actors at best.
As for this racial thing, people are too eager to defend the minorities nowadays. The old Star Wars' had mace windu for a black man, and that was about it. I don't recall that many complaints about it

Rilvor
04-30-2014, 06:06 AM
I looked at the cast and I thought to myself: "wow, I'm not looking forward to this".

The casting looked retarded, I could see one or two good actors at best.
As for this racial thing, people are too eager to defend the minorities nowadays. The old Star Wars' had mace windu for a black man, and that was about it. I don't recall that many complaints about it
You said "black" and "complaints" in the same post...and I swear I heard the voice of something horrible that had to do with Jars...

SirCoffeecup
04-30-2014, 07:02 AM
You said "black" and "complaints" in the same post...and I swear I heard the voice of something horrible that had to do with Jars...
Jar Jar Binks was allegedly annoying, but I didn't mind him at all. I find it surprising there are folk out there who actually HATE him.

That said, I read through the article now. What a load of BS.
Obviously the author never noticed how the star wars scene is mostly about war, and that not many women take part in wars on the frontlines. And I cannot believe how he manages to make "A strong willed and/or feisty" sound bad. I guess he's a fan of those helplessly pathetic classic women who are in abundance..no wait, he critizises them too. This author doesn't even know what he wants.
And for the japanese part, chances are there are some oriental side characters or scenes. I thought the jedi temple itself was, with its chairless design, a fair homage to the ascetic lifestyle in the rural towns in Japan.
Nobody said these protagonists are all going to be humans. Some might be aliens to balance things out.

I hate this author almost as much as I hate Matt Peckham (http://time.com/61431/check-out-12-minutes-of-star-citizen-not-being-the-game-youll-play/) for making a terribly misinformed and biased article in TIME magazine.

FishNChips
04-30-2014, 07:53 AM
make everyone stronk independent black wimmin who dont need no mans and we'll have the most progressive movie in history

QT Melon
04-30-2014, 10:25 AM
Why do people have to go to extremes when people talk about diversity?

It's either that people shouldn't notice that today's day and age a science fiction story doesn't really have a diverse cast...when we're talking about a story that involves the ...I dunno "entire universe"

Or that people think that adding a few roles that are more diverse means that it should be filled with the most under-represented minorities.

It's really ridiculous to jump in and make arguments like that.

Maybe some people are wondering why in the year 2014 that maybe there are more people that can fill out the roles of a fictional universe than the same old?

Term
04-30-2014, 10:36 AM
To the guy's credit, he has one point.

Star Wars is notorious with not having a diverse representation of the human race. Long has it been a joke, especially as seen in the Family Guy spoof, that Lando is the only black guy in the entire universe.

On the same token you can't take the casting news as an indication of what the roles are, which is what this guy in the article attempted to do towards the end with his "the one new female will be someone's girlfriend and the people of color will just be sidekicks." First of all I don't know what's wrong with being a sidekick in the Star Wars universe. As I recall, people love Han, Lando, Chewie, and R2-D2, to the point where in Return of the Jedi Han's B-Plot was more interesting at points than Luke's A-Plot. Lando's C-Plot there was mostly just "LOOK AT ALL OUR 80's SPECIAL EFFECTS!" but it did have Pancake Face.

So yeah, the woman may be the driving force behind this trilogy. The boundless white actors could be putting on a bunch of makeup and playing aliens where it won't matter what their race is because they'll be friggin aliens. We only know that Adam Driver is the villain which doesn't really say much about who or what he's going to be aside from evil. He could be Admirial Thrawn and have to put on a bunch of blue face paint.

In short, it's best not to get too crazy over the casting, and honestly, the notion that the Star Wars universe could do with a bit more diversity isn't that out there as far as concepts go. It is a bit funny, as the author brings up, that the Jedi order which is so steeped in Eastern myth and martial arts has no real standout Asian members. Instead the most well-known Jedis to movie-goers aside from the Skywalker clan are a British dude, a black guy, and an Irishman.

Damian
04-30-2014, 11:15 AM
I looked at the cast and I thought to myself: "wow, I'm not looking forward to this".

The casting looked retarded, I could see one or two good actors at best.
As for this racial thing, people are too eager to defend the minorities nowadays. The old Star Wars' had mace windu for a black man, and that was about it. I don't recall that many complaints about it
Old Star Wars? That was in the newer movies.

The OLD Star Wars had Lando

SirCoffeecup
04-30-2014, 11:18 AM
Old Star Wars? That was in the newer movies.

The OLD Star Wars had Lando
This is just nitpicking. Any star wars that was before this is now old. But, the latter half is OLDER.

Tycho
04-30-2014, 01:07 PM
Such are the fruits of the WHITE GUILT tree. I'm extremely disappointed with Forbes, they're falling prey to the exact same kind of shit that ruined Cracked for me. Someone has decided that white guilt and this warped idea of "social justice" is highly bankable, and so it's being pushed to an audience they think is eager to consume it - the same kind of audience that thinks the Bechdel test is a great metric for determining how "woman-friendly" a movie or whatever is.

Tycho
04-30-2014, 01:25 PM
-squints-
*type type google google*

...
Oh my fuck. .-.

The Bechdel test is a pants-on-head stupid "metric" for determining how "feminist-friendly" any given movie, TV series, book, etc. is. Nota bene: it completely ignores the quality of the characters (the original SW trilogy fails the Bechdel even though it has possibly one of the best female characters in the ENTIRETY of sci-fi with Leia Organa), it simply wants MOAR WIMMINZ and they can't be talking about ICKY EBIL MEN. The Bechdel test is nothing more than a vehicle for feminist dogma.

Krespo
04-30-2014, 01:31 PM
Such are the fruits of the WHITE GUILT tree. I'm extremely disappointed with Forbes, they're falling prey to the exact same kind of shit that ruined Cracked for me. Someone has decided that white guilt and this warped idea of "social justice" is highly bankable, and so it's being pushed to an audience they think is eager to consume it - the same kind of audience that thinks the Bechdel test is a great metric for determining how "woman-friendly" a movie or whatever is.

Cracked was ruined long ago by its overuse of the words 'Insane', 'Awesome', and 'Unbelievable'.

Tycho
04-30-2014, 01:34 PM
Cracked was ruined long ago by its overuse of the words 'Insane', 'Awesome', and 'Unbelievable'.

It's funny, because they would mock other sites like BuzzFeed for using clickbaiting tactics like those words, and then they turned around and did the exact same fucking thing.


I've never been to Cracked! \:3/

A couple years ago, I would have said you were missing out. Nowadays, I know better. You're not missing anything of value.

lorenith
04-30-2014, 01:53 PM
On one hand, eh? I bet a bunch of them will be aliens, so who cares if they're white?

On the other hand, racism is an issue in Hollywood that isn't going away anytime soon. It's not nearly as bad as it used to be, but generally speaking if you're not white you're less likely to be cast in any given role. And that is an issue that I'm perfectly fine with writers needling Hollywood over.

As far as many characters being male... I also honestly don't care that much that there are more males in most stories. Call my brainwashed or whatever, but most characters, their genders can be interchanged and it wouldn't change the story for me at all, so I really just don't care.

Dire Newt
04-30-2014, 02:09 PM
Remember when they remade Death at a Funeral a couple years after it was released just to replace the cast with black people? No one cared about that and I would say that's more significantly more offensive than having "only a few minorities" in your movie. I don't understand why Star Wars specifically is getting heat for this. A lot of movies come out that don't have any minorities in it and you don't see people bitching about them. Star Wars seems like the big, easy, target for lame-brained SJWs because of similar complaints with A New Hope. Yes, I'm sure it was a conscious decision to exclude non-white races so they could have this controversy and be accused of racism. That's the kind of publicity that will attract audiences!

QT Melon
04-30-2014, 02:22 PM
I have seen complaints from a lot of people taking about various movies.

However Star Wars has a bigger presence because it is a franchise. It is gonna sell theme parks, toys and other merchandise so yes it is going to have more scrutiny.

It was just a while ago people were crying when Disney owned it.

So the " I don't see them talking about X movie" is just really a strawman argument.

Tycho
04-30-2014, 02:28 PM
I've never seen people who were more sexist than feminists. They are shamelessly so. Everything revolves around gender issues. It doesn't matter what the subject matter is, whether it's a movie about war (where men are absolutely overrepresented HISTORICALLY, especially in wars before the 90's) or a movie that is specifically tailored to male audiences with humor that is more in tune with what most men find funny. All they care about is "WHERE ARE THE WOMEN, WHERE ARE THE WOMEN, WHERE ARE THE WOMEN". I can understand being miffed about underrepresentation in certain circumstances, in certain genres, in certain settings where there's really not much reason for it. I can understand being miffed about the quality of representation in those situations.

But we are dealing with a genre (sci-fi, or space opera if you really want to nitpick) that has a STAGGERINGLY high ratio of male fans to female fans, where the race of said fans is MOSTLY white and has been so for a LONG time, and now all the gender and race ideologues are asserting that we need MORE diversity in this genre when the fanbase does not have and never has had that kind of diversity. They assert that the lack of diversity in this genre's fanbase stems from the lack of diverse representation in its media, but if that were true then why would there be ANY diversity at ALL in the fanbase? Fact of the matter is, it's about INTEREST, and that a number of female or non-white fans of the sci-fi genre are fans regardless of the races and genders being represented in the media is not because it's not about the races and genders being represented in said media - it's about the stories. To a great many fans, the race or gender of the characters does not really MATTER - it's about the roles they fulfill and act out in the story. Race and gender does not a good story make any more than they unmake it. Anyone who comes into this genre and immediately starts kvetching about the underrepresentation of a certain race or gender is doing so while willfully ignoring how little such factors actually matter, ESPECIALLY in situations where some of the races (or genders at times) are completely fantastical and simply have no real-world equivalent.

I would not expect there to be a MASSIVE percentage of black female sci-fi fans in proportion to white male ones, because the black female demographic has demonstrated a comparatively low interest in the sci-fi genre. This is not a matter of them being excluded via underrepresentation in media, this is a matter of them not being drawn to it, possibly due to the conditions under which they were raised - they are more likely to be raised to develop strong interests in OTHER genres (in which white males are generally strongly underrepresented in the fanbases). It should be noted that these black women will then grow up and if they choose to pursue acting roles they are FAR more likely to gravitate towards and audition for roles in movies that are closer to their interests. Movies that explore subjects and genres closer to the ones explored in their favorite literature, TV, books, etc. that they enjoyed during their formative years. There will always be a few actors and actresses who explore roles beyond the roles they read about in their favorite childhood literature, but they are proving to be a vast minority.

Dire Newt
04-30-2014, 02:32 PM
I have seen complaints from a lot of people taking about various movies.

However Star Wars has a bigger presence because it is a franchise. It is gonna sell theme parks, toys and other merchandise so yes it is going to have more scrutiny.

It was just a while ago people were crying when Disney owned it.

So the " I don't see them talking about X movie" is just really a strawman argument.

It doesn't change the fact that the criticism directed specifically at the Star Wars franchise is one that could be directed at nearly every other movie with a theater release. My point is that it's a completely unwarranted accusation of racism unless you are implying that all other movies without X amount of black people are also racist.

lorenith
04-30-2014, 03:24 PM
Um ok Tycho? I don't see where what you said has anything to do with what I said but that's ok.

Tycho
04-30-2014, 04:15 PM
Um ok Tycho? I don't see where what you said has anything to do with what I said but that's ok.

There, fixed.

QT Melon
04-30-2014, 04:24 PM
It doesn't change the fact that the criticism directed specifically at the Star Wars franchise is one that could be directed at nearly every other movie with a theater release. My point is that it's a completely unwarranted accusation of racism unless you are implying that all other movies without X amount of black people are also racist.

Again you are making a logical fallacy.

Frank LeRenard
04-30-2014, 05:52 PM
Jeez, you guys. Quite the backlash against this.

The race thing I think is just a matter of principle. I guess all the author of this article was saying is that there's really no reason to use a male-dominated, white cast for Star Wars because the Star Wars universe is one in which race is a null issue, and Star Wars is guaranteed to make a shitload of money no matter who they cast. That obviously also means that there's no reason NOT to use a male-dominated, white cast as well, but we do live in the 21st century. I know Star Wars is based on those lame old space serials they used to play before creature features at drive-ins in the 1950s, but you know.

And the idea that women are usually not portrayed very well in movies (movies that are generally written by men) has some merit as well. The problem with either the 'girlfriend' dynamic or the 'strong independent woman' dynamic is that both are just lame archetypes. This doesn't even have to be a feminism issue... it's just bad writing. But for some reason it seems to happen most often to female characters. In that case, it's pretty easy to assume a gender bias. So, you know, it's not like these points are totally illegitimate.

THAT SAID, I don't know if I would trust J.J. Abrams or his writers at Disney to be able to write a legitimate female character in a lead role. Maybe J.J. Abrams... I did like Elle Fanning's character in Super 8. Although that was a young girl. Who knows.

Point is, though, we're talking about Disney, here. The author of this article makes a whole lot of unfounded assumptions, but I would be just as quick to assume they went with white males because they don't trust themselves to write a proper minority or female character in a major role. If they did that, and then it turned into an embarrassing mess, then everyone would be complaining that they're racist for making the black/female/Asian/Hopi/Tuvan/Kaskinampo character such a ridiculous trope. So I think this author's argument is pretty simple-minded, because race and gender is one of those quagmires that you just never want to set foot in if you're taking on something as money-making as Star Wars. The SAFEST bet (regardless of whatever cultural problem this happens to illuminate) is to go with mostly white males. I don't blame Disney or J.J. Abrams for trying to go with the safest bet. Seems like both of them have already founded their careers on this (at least, modern Disney has).


Obviously now that people are complaining about this, the next Star Wars movie will be directed by Spike Lee.

Tycho
04-30-2014, 06:00 PM
Obviously now that people are complaining about this, the next Star Wars movie will be directed by Spike Lee.

I can only imagine what kind of race-baiting drivel he'd use to carve the franchise's tombstone with.

Frank LeRenard
04-30-2014, 06:08 PM
I can only imagine what kind of race-baiting drivel he'd use to carve the franchise's tombstone with.

Well, obviously the best solution to accusations of racism is to become completely racist in the opposite direction (that is, against white people).

Tycho
04-30-2014, 06:16 PM
Well, obviously the best solution to accusations of racism is to become completely racist in the opposite direction (that is, against white people).

Oh no, you CAN'T be racist against white people! Whitey deserves all the flak he gets! All whites are complicit in the oppression of other races, regardless of their social status, upbringing, background, political standing, etc. and they must all be made to self-flagellate until every other race has decided that Whitey has learned his lesson! Only non-white people get to decide what constitutes racism, where it begins, and where it ends! Any harmful act committed against a white person based upon their skin color is completely justified and is simply the result of an oppressed minority lashing out against their oppressor!

I've heard this shit often enough from people of various skin tones and backgrounds that I can recite it all damn day to their satisfaction. They think I'm a good, guilty Whitey who's ready to take his lumps, right up until I fucking turn around and tell them how fucking disgustingly racist THEY are. Cue gasps of indignance, harassment/ostracism/blocking on social media, and accusations of being an evil white oppressor.

Dire Newt
04-30-2014, 06:25 PM
Again you are making a logical fallacy.

Why would the arguer point out that the cast is mostly white if they aren't alluding to racial bias on the part of the creators? Why not just say "male", since the article focuses exclusively on that?

QT Melon
04-30-2014, 07:56 PM
You were making the argument that no one is talking about these problems in other movies.

It is a logical fallacy

People have been complaining about those very issues with a lot of films.

It is just that Star Wars is a big franchise and therefore more people will talk about it. Most have probably ignored blogs of people who talk about these problems where the movie isn't that popular.

Not only that, it is like saying if someone talks about a murder case if no one talks about or mentions every other murder case you assume they don't care about people getting killed.

Zerig
04-30-2014, 08:06 PM
I've heard this shit often enough from people of various skin tones and backgrounds that I can recite it all damn day to their satisfaction. They think I'm a good, guilty Whitey who's ready to take his lumps, right up until I fucking turn around and tell them how fucking disgustingly racist THEY are. Cue gasps of indignance, harassment/ostracism/blocking on social media, and accusations of being an evil white oppressor.

You should just embrace being an evil racist white oppressor. It's such a relieving feeling.

Ley
04-30-2014, 08:06 PM
My two cents is that it'd be nice to see more people like me on tv than white males. Thats just me, though. I mean, the world has so many different colored people. Hell, hollywood has a lot of colored and talented people. Its not like they had no options. But I mean, I didn't ever relaly like star wars to begin with so. *shrug.*

Dire Newt
04-30-2014, 10:35 PM
You were making the argument that no one is talking about these problems in other movies.

It is a logical fallacy

People have been complaining about those very issues with a lot of films.

It is just that Star Wars is a big franchise and therefore more people will talk about it. Most have probably ignored blogs of people who talk about these problems where the movie isn't that popular.

Not only that, it is like saying if someone talks about a murder case if no one talks about or mentions every other murder case you assume they don't care about people getting killed.

You're also assuming that people have made blogs about the issue every time an applicable circumstance arises... and you failed to answer my previous questions. I'm fully aware that Star Wars is being so widely accused of this because of its popularity (I said that in my first comment), but I don't think that sort of criticism on this particular film is entirely valid.

QT Melon
04-30-2014, 11:00 PM
That's not what you were stating before, you're just shifting goalposts. I said that just because Star Wars got more heat for its case, you were stating that there were movies that didn't have any minorities about that didn't get any comments on it like people were ok. Just because it didn't get the publicity you feel whatever metric you're using is baseless and a logical fallacy.

Dire Newt
05-01-2014, 02:00 AM
That's not what you were stating before, you're just shifting goalposts. I said that just because Star Wars got more heat for its case, you were stating that there were movies that didn't have any minorities about that didn't get any comments on it like people were ok. Just because it didn't get the publicity you feel whatever metric you're using is baseless and a logical fallacy.

Ah, you are completely misinterpreting my argument. I'm not saying that the person's criticism is invalid because there are other movies that it can apply to, I was using that point to explain why Star Wars is getting called out for this specifically. I think his argument is invalid for other reasons.

BrazenBull
05-01-2014, 02:15 AM
Well hopefully ep 7 will be shit so we can put all this racial gender thing onto another niche interest that people get way too freaking defensive about.

Dire Newt
05-01-2014, 03:01 AM
Well hopefully ep 7 will be shit so we can put all this racial gender thing onto another niche interest that people get way too freaking defensive about.

It can't be worse than the prequels.

...but I assure you that it will still be very loud and very stupid.

Infestissumam
05-01-2014, 04:20 AM
The only point in which there being too many white characters is actually jarring is on Tatooine, considering the climate probably would have pigmented their skin differently. But other than that I don't really see the point in anyone getting upset over this.

Term
05-01-2014, 07:42 AM
And we all know what happens to Anglo-Saxons when they've been out in the double-suns for too long.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kzUaheoo3_o/T8S0LBwMx0I/AAAAAAAAAhs/w60wXxUeWMM/s1600/Milgos.jpg

Not getting enough blue milk.

SirCoffeecup
05-01-2014, 08:24 AM
And we all know what happens to Anglo-Saxons when they've been out in the double-suns for too long.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kzUaheoo3_o/T8S0LBwMx0I/AAAAAAAAAhs/w60wXxUeWMM/s1600/Milgos.jpg

Not getting enough blue milk.
http://0.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com/17/77/f067f518a1629337dda9a74a1e31b160.jpg
I'd buy these

BrazenBull
05-01-2014, 05:45 PM
The tuskan raiders and jawas are native to tattoine. All the other species and races are there living as farmers, outlaws and merchants in the trading posts and boomtowns. But i suppose it would make sense for lukes family and Obi-wan to be much more tanned then they were.

Term
05-01-2014, 05:50 PM
Too soon, man. Too soon. ;A;

You laughed.

Also we've now established that 37 years is too soon. :V

piņardilla
05-01-2014, 06:27 PM
You can have this much diversity in aliens:

http://mattbuschstore.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/mbstore-48.jpg

but there's a limit of 1 black supporting character per trilogy.

Term
05-01-2014, 07:08 PM
In all seriousness I guess I shouldn't be surprised that this would be the Star Wars thread Tycho would come up with and he's not more pissed off how much shit isn't canon anymore because Disney and JJ said so.

Guess we can all just call Dash Rendar, Kyle Katarn, Mara Jade, HK-47, IG-88, Boba Fett escaping the Sarlac Pit, the good Clone Wars cartoon that made Grevious look like a badass, and any number of cool expanded universe shit just the result of really good fan fiction.

Tycho
05-01-2014, 07:41 PM
In all seriousness I guess I shouldn't be surprised that this would be the Star Wars thread Tycho would come up with and he's not more pissed off how much shit isn't canon anymore because Disney and JJ said so.

I didn't start this thread, fuckmook. And I'm plenty pissed about the discarding of perfectly good canon just because Didney didn't like it, that's not relevant to the thread. We're talking about the race issue.



Guess we can all just call Dash Rendar, Kyle Katarn, Mara Jade, HK-47, IG-88, Boba Fett escaping the Sarlac Pit, the good Clone Wars cartoon that made Grevious look like a badass, and any number of cool expanded universe shit just the result of really good fan fiction.

Fanfics are the only thing that could really save Star Wars after the clusterfuck that was Episode VI.

- - - Updated - - -


You can have this much diversity in aliens:

http://mattbuschstore.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/mbstore-48.jpg

but there's a limit of 1 black supporting character per trilogy.

How do you know if any black actors/actresses even AUDITIONED?

Term
05-01-2014, 07:47 PM
Tycho/Toshabi.

Same difference. :V

My mistake.

Tycho
05-01-2014, 07:49 PM
Tycho/Toshabi.

Same difference. :V

My mistake.

No. Not the "same difference", you smug asshole.

You're not exactly making a great name for yourself as a mod/admin.

Dire Newt
05-01-2014, 07:52 PM
Looks like this thread...

...

...is going to the dark side :3

SirCoffeecup
05-01-2014, 07:55 PM
It smells like 4chan here with all these insults being thrown about. I am not particularly convinced that's a good thing.

Tycho
05-01-2014, 07:57 PM
It smells like 4chan here with all these insults being thrown about. I am not particularly convinced that's a good thing.

It's becoming FAF all over again. Probably because the geniuses at Weasyl thought it was a good idea to basically bring over FA/F staff as Weasyl staff. HERRDERRDERR WHY IS IT GETTING SO TOXIC IN HERE I JUST DON'T KNOW

Term
05-01-2014, 08:01 PM
Calm down Tycho. Frankly my point was concerning the massive interest people are taking in SJWs and these affronts to white cis males in everything. Now in Star Wars. Honestly it's getting old. I hope we can have some more discussion on this forum that isn't relegated to how annoying everyone finds talking about race issues in media and everything else. Something you at least were extremely adamant about before, hence my mistake on naming you as the OP.

In any case I apologize for the callout.

Also concerning black actors who've auditioned for the movies, Michael B. Jordan and Chiwetel Ejiofor both confirmed they auditioned for roles in the film. So including who they went with, that makes at least three. Though they also left themselves open for auditions through the Internet and throughout the British Isles so it's possible there's more.

Tycho
05-01-2014, 08:05 PM
Calm down Tycho. Frankly my point was concerning the massive interest people are taking in SJWs and these affronts to white cis males in everything. Now in Star Wars. Honestly it's getting old. I hope we can have some more discussion on this forum that isn't relegated to how annoying everyone finds talking about race issues in media and everything else. Something you at least were extremely adamant about before, hence my mistake on naming you as the OP.

In any case I apologize for the callout.

Also concerning black actors who've auditioned for the movies, Michael B. Jordan and Chiwetel Ejiofor both confirmed they auditioned for roles in the film. So including who they went with, that makes at least three. Though they also left themselves open for auditions through the Internet and throughout the British Isles so it's possible there's more.

Alright, so you're going to discard Hanlon's Razor whenever race enters the picture? Maybe the black actors who auditioned simply failed to make as good an impression. Assume malfeasance only when everything else has been discarded as a possibility.

Term
05-01-2014, 08:28 PM
Alright, so you're going to discard Hanlon's Razor whenever race enters the picture? Maybe the black actors who auditioned simply failed to make as good an impression. Assume malfeasance only when everything else has been discarded as a possibility.

Oh please invoking Hanlon's Razor would imply that I think there's some form of malice involved in these decisions towards black actors. I don't think JJ, Disney, and the like have any hatred for black actors. What I do believe is that they may have went with what often makes money and what's more often a comfortable norm both for studios and audiences. Considering their desire to start fresh it's surprising there's no real indication that the lead characters will of a different ethnicity or gender for that matter. Further I did state that there's certainly nothing wrong with being a supporting character in the Star Wars mythos mainly because Han Solo is a supporting character and look how popular and beloved he is. The same could be said for Leia though in Episodes V and VI they start to lose focus on her where she's more driven by some blind love of Han I suppose because she finds him being a dick attractive, and then gets herself captured to show up in a space bikini for 15 minutes. Though her posing as a bounty hunter and threatening Jabba with a Thermal Detonator beforehand was a nice touch to try and save her character, albeit when she was pretending to be someone else.

So we're brought back to what roles these guys are playing since we're still unsure as to what they'll be doing aside from Driver who's the villain. Given the promotional image we can assume that the girl sitting between Ford and Fisher plays their child or someone close to them. Same goes for the one guy who's next to Hamill who could be Skywalker's son. If not he could be an apprentice which could lead to debate on if he was the best for the role compared to say a Michael B. Jordan who yeah, I'm a bit biased for because The Wire. I'd be interested to see the audition tapes, but most saying agencies keep those internal unless they release them as part of a home video release, and often just the people who made the cut.

QT Melon
05-01-2014, 09:20 PM
Am I mistaken that earlier someone made a stupid post about why black female actresses were not cast?

Because it shows ignorance how in casting and ACTING works

FishNChips
05-02-2014, 03:44 AM
really good fan fiction.

George Lucas came out and said that the expanded universe stuff is now "non-canon" so it may as well be. :c

Rilvor
05-02-2014, 03:57 AM
I don't think it's a bad thing to start clean, myself. As one of those "kinda likes Star Wars but doesn't care very deeply about it" sort of people it was starting to look awfully bloated in a fashion similar to comic book characters. Off-putting and not enticing to delve any deeper.

piņardilla
05-02-2014, 04:10 AM
The Christmas Special will always be canon in my heart.

Term
05-02-2014, 10:32 AM
The Christmas Special will always be canon in my heart.

Oddly enough that's probably still canon since it's not expanded universe. That's a Lucasfilm production.

But who knows. Lucas doesn't even like being bound by his own canon.

I remember there was a story where Lucas is in a room with a bunch of other creative types and he picked up two toys, one of Darth Maul and another guy of Maul's race except he's yellow, not red. He then says "They're friends!" and people try to explain to him that's impossible because they live 500 years apart from each other. Lucas then gets in a tizzy and tried to come up with a way they can be friends; maybe there's a CLONE of Darth Maul this dude hangs out with. When Lucas handed everything over to Disney, I'm thinking it was more of a show of "fuck it, people keep telling me I can't do what I want in my universe for this or that reason, so let someone else deal with it."

And so they have.

Digitalpotato
05-02-2014, 10:48 AM
Oddly enough that's probably still canon since it's not expanded universe. That's a Lucasfilm production.

But who knows. Lucas doesn't even like being bound by his own canon.

I remember there was a story where Lucas is in a room with a bunch of other creative types and he picked up two toys, one of Darth Maul and another guy of Maul's race except he's yellow, not red. He then says "They're friends!" and people try to explain to him that's impossible because they live 500 years apart from each other. Lucas then gets in a tizzy and tried to come up with a way they can be friends; maybe there's a CLONE of Darth Maul this dude hangs out with. When Lucas handed everything over to Disney, I'm thinking it was more of a show of "fuck it, people keep telling me I can't do what I want in my universe for this or that reason, so let someone else deal with it."

And so they have.

With as balkanized as the Star Wars fanbase is.... it's honestly amazing that it's taken him this long to say "That's it - I'm done."

Term
05-02-2014, 11:10 AM
With as balkanized as the Star Wars fanbase is.... it's honestly amazing that he didn't say "Screw it! I'm done" before.

Well think about all the merchandise and licensing cash he's been taking in for over 30 years. Anything that came out with Star Wars in the title netted him money because he was smart enough back in 1977 to retain all the rights to the franchise and not let 20th Century Fox have them. The only thing Fox owns is the permanent film rights to the original "A New Hope" and only retains the rights to the prequels and episodes V and VI until 2020. It's only really been since the prequels came out that he's been I think frustrated with how his creation has gone, specifically because what used to be canon about Boba Fett no longer was when he decided that Boba was a clone and somehow everyone had to be connected in one way or another. Hell, there was talk of a baby Han Solo showing up in the prequels. I think the fact that the fans took the series and ran with it with novels, comics, video games, and television shows really burned his ass because now he had to play by other people's rules instead of his own. And half the time he doesn't even like playing by his own rules.

But now he's got more money than he knows what to do with so really, I suppose it's just time he figured he'd retire from worrying about it.

FishNChips
05-02-2014, 11:42 AM
I don't think it's a bad thing to start clean, myself.

Whoever's piloting the ship right now better not make the same mistakes as Lucas.

Lucas seemed to have little idea of what it is he actually made. He made a universe that was so awesome for many reasons, with lots to explore. But Lucas saw it as a vehicle for making millions off of merchandise, he thought people were into Star Wars because of the ewoks or dat dere wacky Jar-Jar.

Look at the cancellation of SW:BF3 and 1313. There was also another game in the works where the player character was Darth Maul, but Lucas called for it to be cancelled because he wanted more of a "buddy cop" story between Maul and whatever other character.

I believe I heard that Lucas changed "Revenge of the Jedi" to "Return of the Jedi" after being told how much money he'd save on printing costs for merch packaging.

So yeah, with whatever clean slate Star Wars may be starting on again - if at all - I sincerely hope it doesn't follow the same steps. But then again it's disney and you know how much they like merchandising.

oNZove4OTtI

It sure as hell is business smart, but it's often at the expense of the IP as a work of art.

Edit: Just read Term's post above. Interdasting.

Toshabi
05-02-2014, 12:53 PM
Tycho/Toshabi.

Same difference. :V

My mistake.
I would be insulted, but I know you only did it to yank his chain. Alll is well.

QT Melon
05-02-2014, 10:55 PM
Why do people ask or assume that because there is a black actor added to this new film he should be related to one of the other Black characters from the previous movies?

Tycho
05-02-2014, 11:19 PM
Why do people ask or assume that because there is a black actor added to this new film he should be related to one of the other Black characters from the previous movies?

I think it's partially because those other black characters were ones that fans "bonded" to in some way, and they kinda hope there's a continuation of those characters' story through their children or descendants. I was pretty pissed that Mace Windu is chucked out a window in Coruscant and assumed dead. I mean, Palpatine gave him a shock, but the last we see of him he's falling out the window of Palpatine's office/suite, not "confirmed dead". It's implied that even if he had survived that the order given by Palpatine to exterminate the Jedi would have done him in, but hell, Yoda and Obi-Wan survived.

QT Melon
05-02-2014, 11:53 PM
Just because a character is black doesn't mean they need to be related. I don't assume all white characters are related unless maybe by a certain name :P

Frank LeRenard
05-03-2014, 12:15 AM
I believe I heard that Lucas changed "Revenge of the Jedi" to "Return of the Jedi" after being told how much money he'd save on printing costs for merch packaging.
No... that was a joke in one of the Red Letter Media reviews. I think the actual reason is because 'revenge' has a negative connotation that he didn't want attached to the Jedi, the good guys. Hence why we get Revenge of the Sith later on. Man's not THAT much of a money-grubbing asshole.

Tycho
05-03-2014, 12:31 AM
Just because a character is black doesn't mean they need to be related. I don't assume all white characters are related unless maybe by a certain name :P

Yes, I am aware. That was irrelevant to the point I was making.

QT Melon
05-03-2014, 04:06 AM
Yes, I am aware. That was irrelevant to the point I was making.

No it is not. It shows ppl are more apt to assume based off race.

If you want to see more storyline from that character instead of "everything is related" you could, you know hire more black actors...just saying.

Even funnier is technically you don't even have to have a black actor to "continue the legacy", since I hear it is possible to marry and even breed outside our designated skin tones.

Rilvor
05-03-2014, 04:25 AM
I'm a lot more inclined to believe a Star Wars nerd is focused on that character over anything else.
It's all supposition, but I'd imagine it's more like "Oh man! Does that maybe mean we'll get to see the son of [Adored Character]?!?" rather than "He's black so he MUST be related to someone black!"

It comes across to me as supposing malignancy first.

QT Melon
05-03-2014, 04:31 AM
You are still basing it off a skin tone. Point still stands strong on how it is a bias.

Rilvor
05-03-2014, 04:39 AM
You are bringing this up (twice) regardless of current discussion, I don't wish to assume why that is.

I'm pretty sure Renard put forth a solid argument about the casting that you haven't commented on, so I'm really unsure what you are trying to achieve here.

This is honestly a bit absurd, you're turning fans nerding over a character storyline into a race issue. At least, that's the impression I am getting here.

Infestissumam
05-03-2014, 08:13 AM
I hear it is possible to marry and even breed outside our designated skin tones.

Preposterous.

FishNChips
05-03-2014, 09:21 AM
No... that was a joke in one of the Red Letter Media reviews. I think the actual reason is because 'revenge' has a negative connotation that he didn't want attached to the Jedi, the good guys. Hence why we get Revenge of the Sith later on. Man's not THAT much of a money-grubbing asshole.

Looks like there's a lot of people that don't know it's a joke, then.

QT Melon
05-03-2014, 10:14 AM
You are bringing this up (twice) regardless of current discussion, I don't wish to assume why that is.

I'm pretty sure Renard put forth a solid argument about the casting that you haven't commented on, so I'm really unsure what you are trying to achieve here.

This is honestly a bit absurd, you're turning fans nerding over a character storyline into a race issue. At least, that's the impression I am getting here.


The discussion is about mostly white Cast in a Star Wars film. You get a black person cast, and a number of people assume that that black person is related to their favorite character. Yet, unless if people had clues otherwise with other cast members who are white people are rarely gonna assume otherwise.

I'm sorry if it's an uncomfortable little position that makes people rethink how they see things or point things out. But it doesn't mean you have to sit there and get scared over it because you know "hey she's saying people are racists" instead of realizing it's problematic when you do limited number of cast members of diversity.

Infestissumam
05-03-2014, 10:16 AM
Man if only that argument wasn't pure conjecture.

The only thing you can point out is there are more white actors in Star Wars. Anything past that is speculation.

Rilvor
05-03-2014, 01:38 PM
I'm sorry if it's an uncomfortable little position...But it doesn't mean you have to sit there and get scared over it...

It would seem you have a chip on your shoulder. I neither appreciate the assumptions nor the tone in what should be a polite discussion. Frankly, I'm insulted and I will not participate further in this thread.

Tycho
05-03-2014, 05:25 PM
The discussion is about mostly white Cast in a Star Wars film. You get a black person cast, and a number of people assume that that black person is related to their favorite character. Yet, unless if people had clues otherwise with other cast members who are white people are rarely gonna assume otherwise.

I'm sorry if it's an uncomfortable little position that makes people rethink how they see things or point things out. But it doesn't mean you have to sit there and get scared over it because you know "hey she's saying people are racists" instead of realizing it's problematic when you do limited number of cast members of diversity.

You're doing nothing but attempting to re-frame an argument as racism. You're an intellectually dishonest race-baiter, trying desperately to get others to play your game and failing.

Toshabi
05-03-2014, 05:39 PM
This thread sucks. All it keeps devolving into is insults. The real issue with Star Wars anyway is the fact that Rogue Squadron 4 was canned.

qXp8T097vjc

Frank LeRenard
05-03-2014, 06:22 PM
Closing thread. This is quickly devolving into personal attacks.