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insanejoker
03-13-2014, 03:12 PM
See how it's done here: http://theartcenter.blogspot.com/2010/03/sam-nielson-painting-process.html

Another example: http://www.deviantart.com/art/Elsa-frozen-437235329 (really blew me away, step by step in the desc.)

I really like the effect. I started doing the black and white renders and putting the color on top to save time, and I think I'm going to try this method next to give some of my characters more of a '3D render' look.

Has anyone else tried this or know of a better tutorial for it or tips etc.?

Vae
03-13-2014, 08:16 PM
I want to try this, when I want to sit down and actually shade that much.
Looks neat, though.

Sparkyopteryx
03-14-2014, 01:44 PM
It certainly has a dramatic effect, doesn't it? Just goes to show that having a firm grasp of how light and shadow interacts with form can do wonders for your art; it gives a sense of realism even when the style or subject matter isn't even close to representational. I've been trying to get more of that 3D look in my graphite pieces more and more.

Many thanks for sharing this link, although I apologize in that I can't provide any additional subject matter or tutorials for you regarding this particular subject...

Caelan
03-23-2014, 11:27 AM
I think playing with this could be great for just enhancing knowledge of how light works, for the purposes of painting and such. But it also requires a bit of base knowledge of light in the first place too, huh? I'd really like to try this to see what I can gain from it, but I almost feel like I'd want to buff up a little with some observational studies first, ha.

Or perhaps I'm just over-thinking it, which would not be at all surprising.

Tiger
03-23-2014, 11:48 AM
This is pretty awesome, never heard of it before. Definitely something I'd like to do in the future. It's interesting to see how people use the layer modes in artwork. This is gonna be really useful, thanks for sharing!

insanejoker
03-23-2014, 04:03 PM
Forgot to respond to people sorryyyy:

Vae: XD Yea, it seems it'll be a challenge to practice.

GreenLadyMonster: It does have a dramatic effect, and it makes perfect sense why some concept artists have their sketches look 3D. In the art book for How to Train Your Dragons, there's numerous head shots of Hiccup from one particular artist (I shall fetch his name in a bit, book isn't near me), but it looks like they just traced a 3D model (which is possible, but highly unlikely and wouldn't make sense to do), and now I know how that look is achieved. A lot of the shadows in the face / skin are subtle but bring it to life regardless.

Caelan: I attempted it the other day and was definitely overthinking it. I had to take a break and start over XD But to help avoid that I'm going to do some lighting practice sketches. I think the overthinking stems from uncertainty.

Tiger: It is! I need to learn to not be afraid to mess with layer modes - they're not evil and obviously can help enhance the visuals. :) You're welcome for the sharing!


If I find any more information on it I'll try to add it here, or I'll just add it to the art resources thread (or both?). I think the method is relatively new, because searching for tutorials and such on it isn't bringing amazing results yet. x.x

EDIT: JUST FOUND ANOHTER: http://dalo-artspell.blogspot.com/2014/03/ambient-occlusion-painting-tutorial.html yay

Caelan
03-23-2014, 04:38 PM
Caelan: I attempted it the other day and was definitely overthinking it. I had to take a break and start over XD But to help avoid that I'm going to do some lighting practice sketches. I think the overthinking stems from uncertainty.

Oh, I agree completely on overthinking and uncertainty going hand in hand! There was a phase a year or so ago before I graduated, where I was worrying a lot less about whether I was doing something 'right' or not and just getting my lines down, and professors kept commenting on how my work had 'confidence' in the drawing. Looking forward to regaining that now that I have more time to devote to studies again.

Thanks for the additional link, too! I'm going to try my hand at this soon.

Vae
03-26-2014, 06:41 PM
I tried to do the thing. (http://31.media.tumblr.com/382e16f33662cfe5a04c1b808205331f/tumblr_n32eq9ZFOE1t96dzto1_r1_1280.png)

I don't think I succeeded very well, though.


EDIT: Fixed some of the edge issues and messed with the highlighting.

Nattles
03-26-2014, 07:04 PM
Thanks for those links! I've seen this technique sorta before, but these were really informative. And holy crap, that Elsa pic! (I thought it was a photo!)




Has anyone else tried this or know of a better tutorial for it or tips etc.?

I don't think this is exactly Occlusion, since he's not going for as much realism with his manga work, but Caleb Thomas has a similar, effective technique (http://nattlestuff.tumblr.com/post/63372274835). The link goes to a reblog at my tumblr, not for self-plugging, but for fox-orian (http://fox-orian.tumblr.com/)'s helpful commentary. I wanted to link directly to his reblog instead, but he had deleted the original post, derr. Anyway, take a look at CT's process; it's pretty good!

I should give this technique a try myself and see if it works better than my current method.

insanejoker
03-27-2014, 01:15 AM
Vae:
That's not bad at all :) I think most of the practice comes with learning lighting and shadow, which is a challenge XD Otherwise I think you did a good job. Only thing I'd say to focus on the direction of the lighting. It looks like it's coming from the left but the shadows on the hand holding the blade look as if the light is coming from the right. The hair looks super nice though :D

Nattles:
Yes! I am actually using that technique with one of my paintings. It is making things go by so much faster and with less worry about color right off the bat. :) It won't have a 3D-ish look as the Ambient Occlusion but it's sooo helpful. Thank you for that link!

QT Melon
03-27-2014, 10:12 AM
Usually people get color wrong because they don't understand the correlation between color and value.

That's why I often see really bizarre results from people trying greyscale or even Occlusion because of lack of understanding of how color works.
Colors have their own value so just shading in greyscale without keeping that in mind leads to bad results.

I remember seeing this video that talks about the problem.

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insanejoker
03-27-2014, 03:10 PM
I remember watching that video awhile ago when you originally posted it in another thread, it's definitely informative.

The AO method though wouldn't have a completely gray solid for everything, it's merely just using it for shadows and shouldn't be applied through the whole figure. The figure is filled with either white or a very light gray as the base color (it's almost how some papers are never truly white). It's really meant to mimic 3D renders, and when you separate the renders you get an Occlusion map that is just filled with dark grays in the shadow areas, or the darkest shadows possible. Obviously this shouldn't replace standard coloring with actual colors, and I definitely hope people don't do that or think that, this is simply another method to get a specific desired result.

http://www.caravaggio3d.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/AmbientOcclusion.png It's a car, but it is still AO XD I think I should've given examples of 3D AO renders to explain what it is better. :)

He also has the layer setting set on 'color', and I'm curious to see what it would be on 'multiply'. Changing the layer mode gives you dramatically different results. Is using the 'colorize' or 'color' layer modes used to ensure color value is accurate vs. multiply, hue, etc. etc.?

QT Melon
03-27-2014, 03:59 PM
Multiply leaves the darkest colors on top of a layer, which is why White is not a visible color when putting it on the multiply layer if another layer below has a Darker color

insanejoker
03-27-2014, 05:08 PM
Multiply leaves the darkest colors on top of a layer, which is why White is not a visible color when putting it on the multiply layer if another layer below has a Darker color

Right.

I guess the video was just to show how gray affects the overall value of the color when using the 'color' mode, vs. using the grays as actual shadows which you can do using the 'multiply' mode which I've seen used in a lot of other tutorials (in which you can use blue or purple instead of gray). EDIT: Or just general lighting, which is what the shades and all rely on.

Something I keep in mind are black and white films from awhile ago. Red always turned out black or very dark depending on the shade of red (http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130630135520/ilovelucyandricky/images/9/99/I_Love_Lucy_Cast.JPG. Studying grayscale through the use of those photos (especially those from back in the day) can show how they used color IRL to give that contrast-y look when it was filmed in black and white. Lucille Ball in 'I love Lucy' is a good example of that.