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athdaraxen
03-03-2014, 07:02 PM
Hello all! This is basically a bit of a kinda sorta PSA about Prismacolor markers, specifically any color that is yellow or has yellow in it (such as cadmium red). My character has lots of red and yellow in it and over the course of the years I've noticed lots of bleed on my badges! There is a few of pictures at the bottom of this post so you may see for yourself.

Once I noticed this I began to alert the arts who made the badges that began to bleed and each one had a similarity. They each used a yellow or red Prismacolor marker. The effect did not show until a few months after the badge was made and the only conclusion I can come to is that the heat of lamination causes the yellow pigment to bleed. I have a piece that was never laminated but done with yellow Prismas that never had this problem. It also does NOT show with Copics or any alcohol based markers me and a friend have tested. The only thing I could find on the internet about the subject is that the yellow pigment they use is particularly invasive and has been know to bleed.

I have no other evidence aside from my own badges and was hoping to ask around and see if anyone else had such a problem.

Pictures of the badges, all are SFW:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ha0bj2bewlgqjj3/IMG_20140303_163502.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/h4wy8jm9kc9b53x/IMG_20140303_175454.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kwcf98q4rz3sbvm/IMG_20140303_175637.jpg

insanejoker
03-03-2014, 09:05 PM
Lamination can do so many things to the images. :( I wonder what kind of paper was being used for the drawings? It's possible a thicker paper might absorb the inks better and help reduce the bleed that happens with the yellow, or it's a chemical reaction that Prisma has no control over unless they change yellow inks entirely.

http://anthropology.si.edu/conservation/lamination/ According to this, you're stuck with that outcome, though it does have interesting info on it. There's always a huge risk with lamination - it's never a guarantee something will last a long time, especially if it's being handled constantly. I'd say put those badges in retirement in a nice box or something before they get worse :( Since this has been worsening over the years, I'm curious to see how the Copic yellows are in a few months or a year - maybe it will be the same?

QT Melon
03-03-2014, 10:46 PM
Markers tend not to be archival quality. However, Copics tend to fare better

TealMoon
03-04-2014, 01:42 AM
I wonder is the same happens to lamination with a non- heat based method.
I use the sheets that you have to manually apply and have never had this problem.

tooiebird
03-04-2014, 06:03 AM
I've noticed the same with some of my badges (my character is orange and yellow) and it's not just in older badges. It happened to one of the badges I got after a few months. It really does suck :c Though some of them are holding up better than others.
It might also have to be with how you store them too.

athdaraxen
03-04-2014, 09:15 AM
Lamination can do so many things to the images. :( I wonder what kind of paper was being used for the drawings? It's possible a thicker paper might absorb the inks better and help reduce the bleed that happens with the yellow, or it's a chemical reaction that Prisma has no control over unless they change yellow inks entirely.

http://anthropology.si.edu/conservation/lamination/ According to this, you're stuck with that outcome, though it does have interesting info on it. There's always a huge risk with lamination - it's never a guarantee something will last a long time, especially if it's being handled constantly. I'd say put those badges in retirement in a nice box or something before they get worse :( Since this has been worsening over the years, I'm curious to see how the Copic yellows are in a few months or a year - maybe it will be the same?

The last badge was done on some pretty thick paper, it was actually the first badge this started happening to. The others are on a thinner paper. They are all inked with Artist Pitt markers as well so I would have thought that would help it but sadly not.

The badges done with Copics are all faring fine actually. The one above with the feather was done entirely with Copics except for the yellow and none of it has bled, but your right, that could change in the next few years. None of my badges are handled much though, I keep them in a photo box and only really use them once a year. They did this while sitting in said box. (the feather on was not in a box but on my wall so I don't think it was the box. )


Markers tend not to be archival quality. However, Copics tend to fare better

That does seem to be the case, as I said the picture with the feather was done with Copics and it only bled where it was Prisma.


I wonder is the same happens to lamination with a non- heat based method.
I use the sheets that you have to manually apply and have never had this problem.

That's actually a good question, I've got a few self laminating sheets I could test with. I'll give it a shot!


I've noticed the same with some of my badges (my character is orange and yellow) and it's not just in older badges. It happened to one of the badges I got after a few months. It really does suck :c Though some of them are holding up better than others.
It might also have to be with how you store them too.

Can you share any pictures? If you don't mind. X3 I would like to compare the bleeding for my notes. At some point I would like to email Prisma about this, I mean there isn't anything they can do about it but maybe they can provide some tips on how to prevent it better.

Thanks everyone. :3 I'm sad to hear this has happened to others but I'm glad for the information.

QT Melon
03-04-2014, 10:07 AM
Historically speaking, Prismacolor markers were primarily used for making comps and drafts. They weren't meant to be preserved. They were used to get design ideas out quickly. Before computers caught on there was another set of markers from Letraset called Trias, they were able to take a bit more punishment and weren't as dependent upon marker paper which even today's Primas are still best on. I remember seeing Trias being used in comics like Image.

When manga got more exposure, there was a group named CLAMP that often used markers in their color works. These markers are Copics. It appears that Copics were made with a bit more longevity in mind and other marker makers tried to copy, but they still aren't meant for long term archiving.

athdaraxen
03-04-2014, 12:39 PM
Historically speaking, Prismacolor markers were primarily used for making comps and drafts. They weren't meant to be preserved. They were used to get design ideas out quickly. Before computers caught on there was another set of markers from Letraset called Trias, they were able to take a bit more punishment and weren't as dependent upon marker paper which even today's Primas are still best on. I remember seeing Trias being used in comics like Image.

When manga got more exposure, there was a group named CLAMP that often used markers in their color works. These markers are Copics. It appears that Copics were made with a bit more longevity in mind and other marker makers tried to copy, but they still aren't meant for long term archiving.

I had no idea. Thanks for the history lesson! I guess that would make sense as to why they don't last they. It really doesn't seem like they were meant to. I've used markers before but I've never used marker paper, everyone I've asked said it was overpriced and generally not worth it unless you are using only markers.

Also, CLAMP is awesome. <3

number304
08-05-2014, 02:37 AM
Hi! I was looking up on this topic and found your post so i'd like to comment a bit. I'm suspecting that prisma yellow markers bleed profusely when they're in direct contact with some kind of plastic.

I've been drawing on little blank namecards since 2002 and keeping them in name card holders. The ones with yellow in them bled into the card holder plastic and affected the card behind them as well.

I had one drawing with yellow that i taped with cellotape in the back. It bled into the plastic and cellotape but the drawing behind it was saved.

It seems that the bleeding continues (ive changed name card holders twice or thrice) until the yellow on the paper is like a pale yellow shade :(

I'll show you pics later. But yeah, i think if we're laminating or putting anything plastic on the marker art it's best to avoid prisma for yellow entirely. I'm gonna try kurecolour and copic yellow next, but its so sad that those older drawings are somewhat damaged now...

Sammacha
08-05-2014, 12:29 PM
I don't really use markers a lot, I purely use pencils and ink but just wondering did this happen when you used specific marker paper?
Its made to prevent this from happening.
I ask because I have been meaning to try another time

TealMoon
11-25-2014, 05:33 AM
I can confirm that the bleeding does happen with the self applied sheets.
I had two old badges I noticed it on.
This one http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee508/TaelMoon/prismableedJET_zps64438976.jpg where the colored pencil seems to have minimized the bleeding.

And this one: http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee508/TaelMoon/prismableedazrael_zps28b5752c.jpg which is a mess.

Prismacolors do not seem to agree with lamination. Still no idea about copics though.