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Willow
02-19-2014, 11:04 PM
Apparently in an attempt to encourage girls to get into video games, Nintendo launched a channel to cater more to the female demographic. And as expected, many people weren't too thrilled about it.


Here's the promo video:

QBOB_aJWVO4
Thoughts on this idea and marketing [to the ladies] in general? We know the industry sucks at it. So let's talk about it.

Aside from being horribly cheesy, I think they're trying more to appeal to younger girls. Not so much adults. Which I actually have no problem with. If anything though I think they should get better people to do these videos.

Disclaimer: This isn't a thread meant to bash feminism like at all. Don't do it.

Zeitzbach
02-19-2014, 11:10 PM
The only time I will ask a girl to play with me is when I need a healer.

And I'm not pleased with this but if it nets them more money then kay. It's not like I will get to play with most of them anyway. Unless the channel start having those "Let's shove my boobs into the screen and say 'I'm a female gamer' " (and they likely won't), there's really no reason to bash it.

Vae
02-19-2014, 11:19 PM
Needs moar Samus.

I mean, you've got a badass blonde woman right there. Fucking use her for shit.

Gamedog
02-19-2014, 11:30 PM
Silly.
If we want to unite gamers, why do we go out of our way to segregate them.

RMC
02-19-2014, 11:51 PM
Got dang it, Nintendo.

http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110706055702/earthbound/images/5/5a/Negative_Man.png

Zeitzbach
02-19-2014, 11:56 PM
Needs moar Samus.

I mean, you've got a badass blonde woman right there. Fucking use her for shit.

Come to think of it

Guys certainly won't mind if the one playing is a blonde cosplaying in Samus Aran armor or suit.

That is also good at the game.

Willow
02-19-2014, 11:56 PM
Silly.
If we want to unite gamers, why do we go out of our way to segregate them.
It's weird. It's like, give them their own little space to explore without criticism, but then it makes it seem like you're trying to separate the two.

Which is why I'm kind of assuming it's aimed towards younger kids. They're more likely to get interested if they have other girls to relate to. Something like that.

Kids are weird :v

QT Melon
02-20-2014, 12:12 AM
They do know that this Pink crap is hurting themselves right?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26064302

Instead of thinking it's about makeup or girly stuff, it's about having something there enjoyable by both genders.

Littlerock
02-20-2014, 12:18 AM
Does Nintendo seriously not realize that easily 90% of Link cosplayers are chicks wearing binders? What the actual fuck.

Sammacha
02-20-2014, 12:19 AM
*sigh
This stuff makes me so sad considering tons of girls play games. The same games boys play.
Why not just make an action packed adventure thats actually awesome?
So much time is wasted on this stuff when they should just concentrate on making good games!

Hewge
02-20-2014, 12:21 AM
Being a full-homo gamer and an Australian, girls have always flocked to me like flies. :v

Really though - I spent most of my WoW days playing with female friends, and was always meeting new gamer gals. ...They did play healers an awful lot, though.
I was always jealous of their sexy armors.
Actually, I never really noticed a difference of girl/guy gamers until I joined the furry fandom and stopped playing WoW so much.

Weird.

OT - To be honest, from my experience, it shouldn't be treated as "gamer girls" or "gamer guys", and simply as: "Gamers". Meaning appeal to everyone, I guess.

So instead of only scantily armored womans, have buff dudes in questionable gear as well! :v plz ;~;

lorenith
02-20-2014, 12:23 AM
I don't know why but the video just in general makes me feel really uncomfortable?

Can't place my finger on what about it makes me feel that way though. I'm confused as to what message Nintendo is trying to convey with this, particularly because of the choices of games in the background.

I suppose they're trying to capture that demographic of girls that are eh, super girly or something? I don't know, I've always grown up with girls and boys that all share common (apparently masculine?) interests so I don't have a very good understanding of the demographic that Nintendo is trying to target here...or something..?

Littlerock
02-20-2014, 12:23 AM
So instead of only scantily armored womans, have buff dudes in questionable gear as well!

I am so down with this that it physically hurts.

Willow
02-20-2014, 12:26 AM
They do know that this Pink crap is hurting themselves right?
Eh. Who knows?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26064302

Instead of thinking it's about makeup or girly stuff, it's about having something there enjoyable by both genders.
Yeah this is kind of the problem. They're trying to get younger girls into gaming and stuff but like, they don't know how to. They're using games that anyone can enjoy (i.e. Animal Crossing and Mario) but then they need to add in the fashion and stereotypical girl stuff.

Because well..that's what seems to sell with young girls.



So instead of only scantily armored womans, have buff dudes in questionable gear as well! :v plz ;~;
Start making WoW mods. Give all the male orcs battle panties :v

Vae
02-20-2014, 12:32 AM
The whole "marketing to this gender" for kids thing has always been just really weird and alien, to me.

Because, growing up, I had the Barbies and the stuffed animals, but I also had the Jurassic Park dinosaurs and cars and trucks and Transformers and plastic bugs.
I also played my Marios and Zeldas alongside my Contras and Metroids and Lifeforces.
I went clothes shopping, and then rolled around in the mud while camping.
My gender has literally had goddamned zero influence over my interests.

Runefox
02-20-2014, 12:35 AM
Yeah so Nintendo is apparently still living in the 1990's and don't realize that roughly half of all gamers are female now.


wat is equality

what do you mean girls like Nintendo games

no they don't

we need an ad campaign to rope in girls

we will double our fanbase by adding vaginas

Runefox
02-20-2014, 12:42 AM
And even aiming for CASUALS in general (kids are largely included) is what's killing the Wii U. How is THIS gonna help?

Aiming for casuals worked out OK the first time around with the Wii, but the funny thing about casuals is that they tend to be happy with what they have. Why should they buy something to replace what still works?

Willow
02-20-2014, 12:50 AM
Ooooooooh So they're targeting YOUNG girls. Right right.

"You're dead if you aim only for kids. Adults are only kids grown up, anyway."

-Walt Disney
Well it doesn't really do any good trying to get adults into games. Unless you wanna get your grandma into Call of Duty or something :V

Willow
02-20-2014, 01:05 AM
My grandma owns at Blacklight though... :Y

I'm actually being serious. I visited her last weekend and she was playing it on my cousin's new rig. 16-5 TDM.
Damn. Maybe that should be their next move then. I almost feel like that's an even bigger shot to someone's pride too. I mean getting beat at a game by a girl is one thing but could you imagine getting beat at Mario Party by an old lady?

I'd quit games forever. :B

QT Melon
02-20-2014, 01:06 AM
Maybe put Zelda as a start but not worry about her wearing makeup or being really girly?

Stop having main title characters as objects to be rescued but do more rescuing?

lorenith
02-20-2014, 01:11 AM
Damn. Maybe that should be their next move then. I almost feel like that's an even bigger shot to someone's pride too. I mean getting beat at a game by a girl is one thing but could you imagine getting beat at Mario Party by an old lady?

I'd quit games forever. :B

So when we're all old you're gonna have to quite gaming, cause some of us are going to be old ladies, and of course some of us are going to beat you. :P

Willow
02-20-2014, 01:13 AM
Maybe put Zelda as a start but not worry about her wearing makeup or being really girly?

Stop having main title characters as objects to be rescued but do more rescuing?
Umm excuse you, but Zelda already has her own game :V

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mHw5g55oC4


So when we're all old you're gonna have to quite gaming, cause some of us are going to be old ladies, and of course some of us are going to beat you. :P

Well I mean if we're all old that's different.

Krespo
02-20-2014, 01:22 AM
I demand a Boy's Zone with weekly contests of boys vs girls in the manner of the traditional children's cartoons when this happens for some reason despite the main cast being diverse as hell.


My grandma owns at Blacklight though... :Y

I'm actually being serious. I visited her last weekend and she was playing it on my cousin's new rig. 16-5 TDM.

Grandbadass more like.

TeenageAngst
02-20-2014, 01:46 AM
This is ridiculous, selling to the female demographic in video games is super easy. It's like the game though, you can't make them think it's a girl's game or you lose the demographic. Pokemon, Zelda, the Sims, Final Fantasy, and Kingdom Hearts are prime examples of this kind of success. The males aren't super-masculine, the females aren't super-sex objects, and everything is kinda open ended with defined goals. There's no repetitive running around shooting team deathmatch KILL CAM 360 NO SCOPE. There's no trash talk or hate mail. Nothing is super-technical unless you really pry the hood open. Most of 'em are single player or involve playing with people that are actually in the room. Nintendo has some of the most demographic-friendly franchises in the business, how are they THIS BAD at what they do?

FishNChips
02-20-2014, 12:59 PM
Silly.
If we want to unite gamers, why do we go out of our way to segregate them.

This really. Makes me think of stuff like this:

http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/8I4vz.jpg

It's pointless.

There's nothing wrong with frilly piss-your-knickers haircombing pink "girls things" and erectile muscular steel-clad blue "boys things" but it's when you explicitly target the group and state who it's "intended for" that it starts getting a bit poop.

I heard that most players who play Cooking Mama are male.

Pokémon is pretty agender and is massively successful worldwide.

Zelda's protagonist is always male afaik and it has many zillions of female fans.

Insisting that one is for boys and that one is for girls is where the problem arises. Gender shouldn't be such a huge part of the design. People as individuals are perfectly capable of deciding what they want and it's evident at an early age. A lot of little girls only want "girl's things" because it becomes ingrained into them that they must want a Barbie for christmas.

PS: Pink was a man's colour and blue a woman's colour before the 1930s

Sammacha
02-20-2014, 01:55 PM
Regardless of what they try to do, people will buy what they like.
Im not a fan of most things pink, but I can say the same for brown. But if they put them with a mix of something else there isnt an issue.
They just need some regular boys and girls in the game.
Personally i would think it were messed up to have a medieval setting with a princess that does not wear a dress. It doesn't have to be pink, or all the time but it should fit roughly into the scenery around it.

Personally i dont care about my character being a goy or a girl so long as I like them.
Princess peach is pink and does wonder with the frying pan ( think ssb)
And zelda is sheik which is badass.
On that note, I usually choose to play as a male character over a girl simply because I like them. A lot of guys play as girls because they like them regardless of their clothing.
It doesnt matter how sexy or handsome the character is if people dont like them.
They really just need to focus on the game play.

Littlerock
02-20-2014, 03:38 PM
PS: Pink was a man's colour and blue a woman's colour before the 1930s

My house's basement was the manliest fucking thing for about seven years, cool!

SirCoffeecup
02-20-2014, 03:53 PM
This really. Makes me think of stuff like this:

http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/8I4vz.jpg

PS: Pink was a man's colour and blue a woman's colour before the 1930s
I think this shade of pink is somehow masculine :V

Making games and stuff for a single gender has been around for a loooong time. I doubt the people who made Dooms and Jericho had women as a target audience.
What nintendo is doing now is just silly.
The so called "gender segregation" has always been there, but they are shoving it in our faces now and making flashy ads for it.

How are they even gonna make sure only gaymurrgurrls will join? Do they need to send their birth certificates or flash tits before they can join?

Toshabi
02-20-2014, 04:06 PM
I think this was a great ad campaign and I think igborant gamers are blowing this massively out of proportion for the sake of complaining and out of fear that women will control the videogame community.

Tycho
02-20-2014, 05:06 PM
Silly.
If we want to unite gamers, why do we go out of our way to segregate them.

THIS

THIS THIS THIS

Most people in online games give exactly zero fucks what is between your legs. You're gonna occasionally get sexist dipshits and awkward creepers who hit on anything they think has a vag and whiteknights, but they do not form the majority of the population and are pretty easy to avoid. My MOTHER played TONS of MMOs and encountered only ONE sexist dipshit to my knowledge, and she called in a GM who straightened his stupid ass right the fuck out. She actually was in a guild in DAoC that was OVER HALF FEMALE and they encountered problems EXTREMELY rarely. A lot of the time people who ran female characters and did the usual begging for items/help (basically fishing for a whiteknight) turned out to actually be GUYS.

Vae
02-20-2014, 05:22 PM
My mom was like that, too. I would actually attribute her to exposing me to most of the games I later ended up liking.

This woman in her 30s was playing the shit out of Lifeforce and Blaster Master and Megaman 2.
She eventually just kind of lost interest in it, but I remember having her help me a lot on levels when I was a whiny little baby. Lol.
She was actually pretty good at them. Especially Lifeforce and Dragon Spirit.

QT Melon
02-20-2014, 05:26 PM
Well I will also play games like Saint's Row and was playing God of War. I still have a lot of games to complete as I am looking forward to playing Infamous.

I do get annoyed at the sameness of fantasy armor for women but I don't want that pink garbage around either.

Nattles
02-21-2014, 12:54 AM
I don't mind the idea in theory, as in, I don't mind the idea of Nintendo creating a "safe" place in the gaming community for females, especially if they're younger and not used to how rough online gaming communities can be (especially ones with older "boy's club" mentalities). Like, when I was a little kid, I would have been all over this; in the 90s and early 2000s, I never explicitly felt like my gender was "invited," despite how obviously popular Nintendo games were with both sexes.

But I'm older now, and not only do I not need this, I don't want it? (Of course, I'm not the target demographic, so should I complain that it rubs me the wrong way?) I feel like it's counter-productive at this point. Creating a space that acknowledges and caters to a previously "excluded" sex is great, but why not make it all-inclusive instead? I don't know if I'm making sense. I think I'm rambling now, but Gamedog and Gibby articulated my feelings a lot better than I could have.



Silly.
If we want to unite gamers, why do we go out of our way to segregate them.




There's nothing wrong with frilly piss-your-knickers haircombing pink "girls things" and erectile muscular steel-clad blue "boys things" but it's when you explicitly target the group and state who it's "intended for" that it starts getting a bit poop.

Insisting that one is for boys and that one is for girls is where the problem arises. Gender shouldn't be such a huge part of the design. People as individuals are perfectly capable of deciding what they want and it's evident at an early age.

Toshabi
02-21-2014, 02:40 AM
^Assuming you're not joking I think for the most part based on this thread and articles I've seen, the complaining is actually for the exact opposite.
People (like me) seem to think it's either pointless when they've got vastly bigger issues to worry about or that it tastelessly marginalizes their female audience for no real reason.
I'm not going to go out and call it sexist just yet, but it's very...dated. Pointless based on statistics I and I think a few others posted elsewhere about Nintendo's audience being 45% female.
Nintendo is not that complex or hrdcre that they appear to have a male centric appeal. Maybe a select few games, but for the most part that hasn't been the case I'd like to say at any point of Nintendo's gaming career.

If you think it's great, cool. I just don't think that's the primary concern of the backlash. Not from most people.

EDIT: Criminy, that was meant for Toshabi. Was too slow.

EDIT 2: Though to add on to Tycho. A lot of people who don't focus on this would be surprised at a lot of the stuff girls play. Take QT for instance. Some stuff in the game might bother her, but she FIENDED on Dragon's Crown. Vae's another one. Basically a female XoPachi in terms of gaming preference. This shit isn't really rare or even Internet exclusive. lol


That's scary that you would assume such a thing about Toshabi.

Gamedog
02-21-2014, 04:24 AM
They do know that this Pink crap is hurting themselves right?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26064302

Instead of thinking it's about makeup or girly stuff, it's about having something there enjoyable by both genders.

This really. Makes me think of stuff like this:

http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/8I4vz.jpg

It's pointless.

There's nothing wrong with frilly piss-your-knickers haircombing pink "girls things" and erectile muscular steel-clad blue "boys things" but it's when you explicitly target the group and state who it's "intended for" that it starts getting a bit poop.

I heard that most players who play Cooking Mama are male.

Pokémon is pretty agender and is massively successful worldwide.

Zelda's protagonist is always male afaik and it has many zillions of female fans.

Insisting that one is for boys and that one is for girls is where the problem arises. Gender shouldn't be such a huge part of the design. People as individuals are perfectly capable of deciding what they want and it's evident at an early age. A lot of little girls only want "girl's things" because it becomes ingrained into them that they must want a Barbie for christmas.

PS: Pink was a man's colour and blue a woman's colour before the 1930s



Pretty much this.
As-is, I doubt girls care much about whether or not their Legos are pink and purple. Creating "girl's Legos" just says "hey, so those Legos you were always playing with? Yeah those are more suited for boys, here, play with your girls toys"
It doesn't create a feeling of inclusion, it creates segregation between "boys toys" and "girls toys".

It would be as stupid as creating "girls" Pokemon or "girls" Animal Crossing.

Besides, what's to stop males from getting involved in "female" Nintendo anyways?

Rilvor
02-21-2014, 05:33 AM
Well as far as a Nintendo Girls Club is concerned, I've always had the impression that Nintendo is mostly run by the stereotypical Japanese man so it comes as no surprise they would think this is a good idea.

I patiently await this girls play games mentality to end its popularity so we can all go back to just being people that enjoy video games and get maligned by news organizations.

Willow
02-21-2014, 10:05 AM
I don't mind the idea in theory, as in, I don't mind the idea of Nintendo creating a "safe" place in the gaming community for females, especially if they're younger and not used to how rough online gaming communities can be (especially ones with older "boy's club" mentalities).
I feel like that was the point but it's done so poorly that the overall effect of it is kind of lost there.

Also apparently this is just a thing that only the UK branch of Nintendo is doing so who knows if this is really a company wide thing or not.

Daisy La Liebre
02-21-2014, 12:37 PM
So instead of only scantily armored womans, have buff dudes in questionable gear as well! :v plz ;~;

So much yes. Yes please. Bonus points if they are buff furry dudes?

lorenith
02-21-2014, 12:48 PM
Besides, what's to stop males from getting involved in "female" Nintendo anyways?


Well for anyone else who is supper comfortable with their sexuality and such, nothing.

But for a very large chunk of men who aren't at all secure in their manlyness but are interested in the things on the girls channel? Well it may not stop them, but they'll certainly keep it a closely guarded secret if they choose to get involved despite their fears.


I wish for boys/girls would go away, it makes me feel like a heavy thing is sitting on my shoulders when I walk by the toy aisle, and the clothes aisle and see the segregation. I always say if I have kids I'm going to let them pick from any aisle regardless of gender, this includes their clothing. Can't even walk into the plant nursery without finding all the childrens tools are segregated. (pink princes shovels, and blue Cars shovels...*sigh*)

Damian
02-21-2014, 02:11 PM
Three cheers for sexism! Is it really any wonder male gamers are stereotyped as misogynists when companies are pushing girly shit "for girls"?

QT Melon
02-21-2014, 03:07 PM
If anyone has played Torchlight 2 the classes were done pretty well for both genders. That I like to see more of.

Lucy Bones
02-21-2014, 03:22 PM
Hi. .3.

irick
02-21-2014, 04:36 PM
The female gamer is not elusive.
The female gamer is not even a hugely separate demographic.
Keep making multi-player mario games with peach as an option and you've got the young girl segment.
Nintendo, just... I know you're still reeling with the fact that next to no one bought the WiiU, but trust me, it's not because you aren't well received by the female demographic.

On the flip side of the coin, there is still a huge issue with discrimination against female gamers. Maybe Nintendo could make some efforts to showcase their existing female playerbase in a way that would more easily drive acceptance of the rather huge demographic. I would love to see more female gamers in the professional circuits and i would love to see less misogyny in gamer culture.

pińardilla
02-21-2014, 08:41 PM
Pretty much this.
As-is, I doubt girls care much about whether or not their Legos are pink and purple. Creating "girl's Legos" just says "hey, so those Legos you were always playing with? Yeah those are more suited for boys, here, play with your girls toys"
It doesn't create a feeling of inclusion, it creates segregation between "boys toys" and "girls toys".

What's most disappointing of all is that they weren't this dumb about marketing Legos to girls before.

http://julieclawson.com/wp-content/lego_ad_1981.jpg

That's from 1981.

Gamedog
02-21-2014, 09:36 PM
What's most disappointing of all is that they weren't this dumb about marketing Legos to girls before.

http://julieclawson.com/wp-content/lego_ad_1981.jpg

That's from 1981.

I think what we all need to take away from this ad is one thing: When we step on Legos, it hurts like a bitch for all of us, regardless of gender.. therefore, seperating Legos into "Girls Legos" and "Boys Legos" is unnecessary.

Amen
Let us commence stepping on those single 4x4 blocks in the middle of the night

FishNChips
02-22-2014, 11:36 AM
I really like that ad.

pińardilla
02-22-2014, 12:40 PM
I really like that ad.

It really is a fantastic ad. It got re-discovered a few years ago and has since been passed around getting lots of positive attention as an example of good kids' advertising.

And then the Lego Group took notice, and had to completely fucking ruin it:

http://princessfreezone.com/storage/182400_591040957591045_1749536950_n.jpg?__SQUARESP ACE_CACHEVERSION=1362840883476

An obvious homage, but now is specifically advertising the for-girls "Lego Friends" brand, pink bricks are prominent, and the text really hits the "she" pronouns hard throughout. Subtle changes, but enough to completely wreck everything that was great about the original.

FishNChips
02-22-2014, 12:46 PM
And then the Lego Group took notice, and had to completely fucking ruin it

I can't even be surprised, a lot of these higher-ups can be incredibly short-sighted.