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BlissfulOblivion
02-08-2014, 06:32 PM
Sssssssssssooooooo I decided that since I'm still kinda new to digital art but I think I finally have a handle on the basics I should go through and test out every shading and painting technique set and style I can find just to see what works for me, what I'm good at, and just to get a better sense of art in general. So. My idea is to make a single piece but paint it in all the different ways. Cuz that's easier than making a hundred different paintings and it's a good way to compare the quality and style and see which I like best or better or whatever.
So. Before I get to the painting parts, on which I will also want critiques, I'd like to make sure I have good base anatomy. Here's what I have so far:

http://i.imgur.com/T83iL4U.jpg


Is there anything I'm doing wrong that I haven't caught?

Sammacha
02-08-2014, 07:23 PM
the first thing i notice is the face, the face isn't the correct shape, the head is very circular and the nose very square and the way its attached looks very awkward.
I think you should look at animal faces to get a better idea of this position

BlissfulOblivion
02-08-2014, 09:29 PM
the first thing i notice is the face, the face isn't the correct shape, the head is very circular and the nose very square and the way its attached looks very awkward.
I think you should look at animal faces to get a better idea of this position

Mmkay. I knew there was stuff off with the head and face, but I keep forgetting to use refs ; o ; Thank you!

--edit--
Mmkay I think what I did is I made the head too tall? I'mma try again and see if that helps at all ;c

BlissfulOblivion
02-08-2014, 11:55 PM
Jkjkjkjkjkjkkkj I made the same supid mistake uhm ill repost the pic once i have it better or something sorry aguhhfahsodifhaposhdpgoaje

Mmmmmkay I tried more and I think this time I at least made something different even if it's not right ; o ;

http://i.imgur.com/Czen7kx.jpg


Arg. Now the snout is too big for the head, isn't it.

-edit-

Okidokes, head, Take Four: now might??? look okay??? ish??? on its own but is definitely not connected to the body right. Arg. Maybe I should just give up and move on. Can I get critiques on the rest of the anatomy and position though?

http://i.imgur.com/avTb3x4.jpg

--edit2--

actually jk i think the first one of this specific post is the best. :s

Sammacha
02-09-2014, 02:59 AM
AH yes, sorry I was not online. I would say the head is a bit too tall and I usually put more of an angle where the nose meets the face. Your character may just look like that, but it does look better.
And using ref's its a good thing to remember, sometimes I also forget.

This new one looks quite a bit better imo. the overall anatomy is decent and I think once you start to color and shade it you can really bring out more shape and details.

I wonder about the tail though, its like he is jumping but his tail is in the opposite direction of movement is it not?

I think most of the shapes are good, its up to you if you want to add more muscular definition etc.

BlissfulOblivion
02-09-2014, 03:41 AM
AH yes, sorry I was not online. I would say the head is a bit too tall and I usually put more of an angle where the nose meets the face. Your character may just look like that, but it does look better.
And using ref's its a good thing to remember, sometimes I also forget.

This new one looks quite a bit better imo. the overall anatomy is decent and I think once you start to color and shade it you can really bring out more shape and details.

I wonder about the tail though, its like he is jumping but his tail is in the opposite direction of movement is it not?

I think most of the shapes are good, its up to you if you want to add more muscular definition etc.

S'all good :P Yeah, I think it looks pretty okay now. I just went ahead and started coloring.
Ugh, I alllllways forget to use refs ; ∩ ; I need to like staple it to my computer or something... //sigh; ohwell. I did use a ref on the body position. if you can call trying it out yourself a ref :v

The body position is a little ambiguous and at least two of the backgrounds I'm making will make it a little more obvious; his motion is actually going towards his foot, not away from it. Hence, the tail is following.
Thanks for all your help . v .

Sammacha
02-09-2014, 04:03 AM
S'all good :P Yeah, I think it looks pretty okay now. I just went ahead and started coloring.
Ugh, I alllllways forget to use refs ; ∩ ; I need to like staple it to my computer or something... //sigh; ohwell. I did use a ref on the body position. if you can call trying it out yourself a ref :v

The body position is a little ambiguous and at least two of the backgrounds I'm making will make it a little more obvious; his motion is actually going towards his foot, not away from it. Hence, the tail is following.
Thanks for all your help . v .


ah ok, I thought that might have been the case, but it was worth a mention!
Good luck coloring, finding a style you like to work with can be quite hard, I'll be happy to see how it goes if you decide to show it :)

BlissfulOblivion
02-09-2014, 04:30 AM
ah ok, I thought that might have been the case, but it was worth a mention!
Good luck coloring, finding a style you like to work with can be quite hard, I'll be happy to see how it goes if you decide to show it :)

Ooh yeah I'll definitely show it I just feel really bad for spamming threads and I tend to spam my sketchbook thread so I'm gonna only post when I have most of a version down and ask for help on that specific one
Since I'm posting already I might as well post the background to the one I'm starting with?

http://i.imgur.com/lqZvSO9.jpg

wwretched
02-09-2014, 02:58 PM
For fire, that doesn't look half bad. It's mostly the colors that cue me in, but also the shape a bit. Looking up pictures of fires can help a lot. There's usually thick angles of flames rather of thin strings. Also try using a harder brush--it seems counterintuitive but with blending you can achieve soft edges. A lot of beginning artists figure that softer=more realistic, but that's not always the case.

I suggest you look up basic digital painting tutorials, this one (https://matt-kohr.squarespace.com/dp101-1/)seems pretty handy! Ctrl + Paint has a lot of resources as well, take a look at their stuff and brush up (laugh) on the basics before you start on anything huge. Digital painting can be intimidating, but if you take it slow you should have no problem mastering it.

QT Melon
02-09-2014, 03:34 PM
Well I thought I'd do a video because I don't think you're noticing some of the problems I may have written out before.

I apologize about the audio dropping out a bit at certain points, you can ask me to elaborate. But I feel the need to repeat this...

Please stop with the hairy lines!!!
uSELY1iM4FU

BlissfulOblivion
02-09-2014, 05:16 PM
For fire, that doesn't look half bad. It's mostly the colors that cue me in, but also the shape a bit. Looking up pictures of fires can help a lot. There's usually thick angles of flames rather of thin strings. Also try using a harder brush--it seems counterintuitive but with blending you can achieve soft edges. A lot of beginning artists figure that softer=more realistic, but that's not always the case.

I suggest you look up basic digital painting tutorials, this one (https://matt-kohr.squarespace.com/dp101-1/)seems pretty handy! Ctrl + Paint has a lot of resources as well, take a look at their stuff and brush up (laugh) on the basics before you start on anything huge. Digital painting can be intimidating, but if you take it slow you should have no problem mastering it.

Yeah, the shapes and soft v sharp were the things that were tripping me up; all the pictures I looked at had really sharp edges but faded within themselves and I got really confused. Part of the problem is I couldn't quite find anything in this sort of shape so I was a little bit at a loss because I don't want it to look entirely like a fireball but I want it to still have motion ;c

Mmkay! Thanks for the help! <:


Well I thought I'd do a video because I don't think you're noticing some of the problems I may have written out before.

I apologize about the audio dropping out a bit at certain points, you can ask me to elaborate. But I feel the need to repeat this...

Please stop with the hairy lines!!!
[vid]

I don't remember the hairy line thing being mentioned by you...? ; o ; aaaaaaaa but yeah I do have that terrible habit...
I didn't pick up on the rest of those things until you pointed them out... Thanks a ton! ; o ;

Sammacha
02-09-2014, 05:26 PM
a very nice explanation on line work, though bliss are you not painting over the lines? i was under the impression you were going line less.
If not then I must agree on the line work.

Also Bliss, to help you with the fire ball try looking at this
http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/filepicker%2FLPNiamNQqqInLEoBeeGt_meteor_fire.jpg

dont forget, if your not sure use a ref!
When you draw form your mind its easy to miss things because your drawing what you THINK you see but not what you see. Thinkwith your eyes and not your mind ~

BlissfulOblivion
02-09-2014, 05:38 PM
a very nice explanation on line work, though bliss are you not painting over the lines? i was under the impression you were going line less.
If not then I must agree on the line work.

Also Bliss, to help you with the fire ball try looking at this
http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/filepicker%2FLPNiamNQqqInLEoBeeGt_meteor_fire.jpg

dont forget, if your not sure use a ref!
When you draw form your mind its easy to miss things because your drawing what you THINK you see but not what you see. Thinkwith your eyes and not your mind ~

Some of the versions are going lineless and others are gonna have cleaned up line art on top of this. This is just the base sketch for everything. Wait, QT, did you think I was gonna leave this as the final line art? :u

And yeesss I've been using refs on this ;c It's supposed to be not just a fireball but more directional fire with a source. Which might just not exist. Which is why it's gonna be all that much harder... But hey. Where's the fun in something easy? :v The inspiration for this is A:tlA, in case it wasn't obvious. I think I remember something along the lines of directional fire in there? Kinna like this. I think I'm gonna go through and watch bits of it again to try to find what I'm looking for. That should help. I think. I'm pretty sure I have the basic shape of it down, I'm just having problems on what the body of the flame should look like.

QT Melon
02-09-2014, 05:48 PM
I don't think it matters if the final work uses inking or solid lines. If you want a good drawing, have a good beginning. Hairy lines are not confident lines. The debate of the final result is irrelevant to be honest. The progress of what you're showing now shows lack of confidence in your work. That is a problem because if your start is very bad, it's going to be harder to have a good finish.

This is different than doing a lot of studies and exploration.

But having confidence in your strokes reduces the amount of rework. The same idea matters when painting. You're just doing it in mass vs line.

Sammacha
02-09-2014, 06:03 PM
I don't think it matters if the final work uses inking or solid lines. If you want a good drawing, have a good beginning. Hairy lines are not confident lines. The debate of the final result is irrelevant to be honest. The progress of what you're showing now shows lack of confidence in your work. That is a problem because if your start is very bad, it's going to be harder to have a good finish.

This is different than doing a lot of studies and exploration.

But having confidence in your strokes reduces the amount of rework. The same idea matters when painting. You're just doing it in mass vs line.

yes I agree that's true, though usually when I am painting and the lines don't show I don't correct them so I never thought about mentioning it. I guess because its not a problem I have that I just dont think about mentioning it?


hmm Bliss I dont know what A:tlA is.
Perhaps looking up flamethrowers would help? or even camp fires.

QT Melon
02-09-2014, 06:10 PM
yes I agree that's true, though usually when I am painting and the lines don't show I don't correct them so I never thought about mentioning it. I guess because its not a problem I have that I just dont think about mentioning it?


hmm Bliss I dont know what A:tlA is.
Perhaps looking up flamethrowers would help? or even camp fires.

A:tlA is Avatar the Last Airbender

I think something that is not clicking or being understood is that everything starts with gesture. Hairy lines are not good gesture. It doesn't matter if you paint over something. Gesture is the start of every drawing.

BlissfulOblivion
02-09-2014, 06:18 PM
I don't think it matters if the final work uses inking or solid lines. If you want a good drawing, have a good beginning. Hairy lines are not confident lines. The debate of the final result is irrelevant to be honest. The progress of what you're showing now shows lack of confidence in your work. That is a problem because if your start is very bad, it's going to be harder to have a good finish.

This is different than doing a lot of studies and exploration.

But having confidence in your strokes reduces the amount of rework. The same idea matters when painting. You're just doing it in mass vs line.

Nono, I know. I was just checking. That's something I'll work on. ; o ;


I think something that is not clicking or being understood is that everything starts with gesture. Hairy lines are not good gesture. It doesn't matter if you paint over something. Gesture is the start of every drawing.

I started in the very beginning with gesture?? so it just gets lost with the terrible hairy line stuff?? ;c

--edit--
OKay so the type of fire I was trying to do just doesn't exist at alllllllllllll sooooooooooooooo uhm. I think I know how to fix it. I think it just has to have a slightly smaller base, but then if I just taper the body of it more and more quickly, I can make it look good/how I want it to. We'll see. That and fix the anatomy can be my project for the evening. This is fun <: I love drawing fire.

--i make lots of edits--
Juuust kidding it's actually pretty good, I just need to define the shape of the body a little more because it's a liiiiiiiiittle bit shapeless. I think I know how to do that. Then it should look pretty nice.
Also, can someone tell me which version of the head is best? ; o ; I simply cannot tell any more...

QT Melon
02-09-2014, 10:42 PM
I'm confused. You went to a hairy line from gesture? why?

Gesture isn't stick figures it's basic main forms...

BlissfulOblivion
02-09-2014, 10:54 PM
I'm confused. You went to a hairy line from gesture? why?

Gesture isn't stick figures it's basic main forms...

Because I'm not good at this and am inexperienced? And habit? I'm really really new to this sort of stuff. I started doing gesture and things like this last month and still have absolutely no idea what I'm doing or where I'm going. And I've always done hairy line, so I wasn't really thinking about not doing it until now. It was never really pointed out to me before.
And I know what gesture is. :I Again, I'm just not very good at this and didn't really think. Also, I wasn't doing chickenscratch stuff, I just ended up going over the same lines a hundred times so that it ended up looking like that. Plus I tried to erase stray lines to clean it up which did not work or help, evidently.

Sammacha
02-09-2014, 11:34 PM
A:tlA is Avatar the Last Airbender

I think something that is not clicking or being understood is that everything starts with gesture. Hairy lines are not good gesture. It doesn't matter if you paint over something. Gesture is the start of every drawing.


o, never seen it called that, but I know the show, love it!

QT Melon
02-10-2014, 12:12 AM
Because I'm not good at this and am inexperienced? And habit? I'm really really new to this sort of stuff. I started doing gesture and things like this last month and still have absolutely no idea what I'm doing or where I'm going. And I've always done hairy line, so I wasn't really thinking about not doing it until now. It was never really pointed out to me before.
And I know what gesture is. :I Again, I'm just not very good at this and didn't really think. Also, I wasn't doing chickenscratch stuff, I just ended up going over the same lines a hundred times so that it ended up looking like that. Plus I tried to erase stray lines to clean it up which did not work or help, evidently.

That is fine, don't worry over it too much because everyone has to stat from somewhere. It just was strange to hear going from confident lines to unsure ones.

BlissfulOblivion
02-10-2014, 01:32 AM
That is fine, don't worry over it too much because everyone has to stat from somewhere. It just was strange to hear going from confident lines to unsure ones.

Yyyeaahhhh I have lots to work on ; o ; But thanks for the help!


Ooookkkaayyyyy so after several hours of staring at google images of fire and my own fireplace, I have decided 1) that I have taken a magnificent and beautiful part of nature and reduced it to a horrible, disgusting set of pixels and 2) that fire is incredibly, amazingly difficult to draw well.

Here is one of my many retries, but I'm pretty sure I haven't done any as well as the first? I thiiiiiiink maybe that's because the first has many smaller parts and this one has too many big parts. Maybe. Any suggestions? ; o ; I am hella confused. Maybe I should find a tutorial, but usually I end up finding overly simplistic ones that really don't help...

--edit--
actually just kidding im not even gonna show that pic because holy fuck is it disgusting ; o ; And I found a good tutorial (http://imaliea.deviantart.com/art/How-to-Paint-Fire-265337186) on it, I'm gonna try it out; my problem now is that I'm not sure if I can do something like that with the entire thing because it's really big and it's gonna be really easy to mess up the energy/direction/momentum of it...
Uhm. Also. It's gonna take forever. And then some.

--double edit cuz i dont like spamming threads--

http://i.imgur.com/zW0zwyV.jpg


Better/getting there... I think part of the problem with the last one was not enough small details and it wasn't... not sure... things... But the good thing about the first one was that it had lots of strong, fast motion, which this one has more of. I think. Yeah.
Note: I did this reeeeeeally quickly just to test it out. I'mma do a fuller version tomorrow. Cuz sleep. ~

--EDIT--

yeaahhhhhh I'm gonna take a break from this piece because of practicing and studies and schoolwork and life in generalllll but I think imma leave this thread open because I'll be back later (assuming that's alright?) soo yeah. :u thassall