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View Full Version : Discussion: do you need to create something "important?"



wwretched
02-04-2014, 08:16 PM
I've been thinking about this tumblr post explaining Miyazaki's comment for a couple of days and I want to know what you guys think about it. The post itself talks about his attitudes towards otaku and the works they create, and I'll spend less time describing the post and more time linking to it and its analysis so you can form your own opinions: http://kamen-rider-rahbito.tumblr.com/post/75440271785/meezdeez7-knightofsuperior

With that said, here's what I've been thinking about. The commentator described the work that otakus create, selfish and unrealistic as opposed to Miyazaki's work which is incredibly beautiful and resonating. I believe that in twenty years down the road, Miyazaki's works will still be remembered while some self-serving "creepy" animes will be quickly forgotten and many others will take their places. In a sense, is it more important to create work that will be remembered or is it better to create work that caters to your own tastes? I don't want this to turn into a discussion about whether or not something is good or bad art but more or less what is more important to society. I've seen plenty of "good art" portraying ""bad"" subjects and vice versa. Should we create work that's going to better society? Or should we make what we want? (Though that's not to say that the two could be or should be different!) Is there anything to be gained from niche works, be they from something as simple as an AU for a TV show or extremely specific fetish works?

Related: What do you think today's "art movement" is? It seems like today there's a lot more artists with a lot of different styles, all of which are valid and unique. Has there been anything like this in the past? (I honestly don't know, though I'm sure there have been artists who have been swept under greater movements.) What can be said about the artistic freedoms that a lot of work has today?

I'm bad at getting my ideas out, so I hope that this comes across correctly! If you feel like I'm making a gross generalization or missing out on something that could be discussed, feel free to bring it up. I don't really have an opinion on this, so I'd love to see what you all make of it! And please, let's be civil; address the opinion, not attack the person.

Let's get a good, respectful discussion going! I can't wait to see your opinions!

Willow
02-04-2014, 09:14 PM
He has a point, honestly. It's kind of like if Hasbro started marketing more to appeal to what Bronies want instead of trying to appeal to both Bronies and young girls (which sounds weird on its own).

Not to say everything has to necessarily benefit or resonate with a ton of people, but it gets so boring when everything starts to follow the same patterns or make it obvious who they're trying to cater to.

As far as this age's art movement, there's definitely a lot of abstract things going on. Things that don't always catch your eye at first but then when you notice that one little detail it really sticks with you. I'm pretty sure there's an actual name for it but I can't think of what it is.

Sammacha
02-06-2014, 02:40 AM
I think i can somewhat agree, actually i stopped liking most anime after inuyasha and gundam seed, seems like everything that came out was... All the same. I totally get why it happens like willow said about marketing to x group, but it kind of ruins it you know? Sure a lot of people buy this this, thats business but its also losing out on the market of people that dont. I guess I just feel like s lot of things aren't even close to being original. I mean, his works were great and imaginative, people could relate to many of his characters not just one. I think thats what he is trying to say is the problem. Great animations, shows, stories... People can re late to the characters and that gives it meaning and makes you remember. But when it relates only to you and your group then a lot is missing.

Like sure... That character is sooo cute.... Two days later... Omg that character is sooo cute, not hard to replace sooo cute with sooo cute. You know?

EllenNatalie
02-06-2014, 04:01 PM
Does my work have to be important? No. Does it have to be important to me? Yes. There's a clear difference between creating art based on someone else's expectations and creating art based on your own.

lorenith
02-06-2014, 04:20 PM
is it more important to create work that will be remembered or is it better to create work that caters to your own tastes?


It's a really difficult question.

To me personally they are both equally important, as each serves a different purpose.

If you ask many of the professors and students at the college I went to, they would argue that art created for oneself (art for arts sake) isn't really art at all.

As far as "what is today's movement" there is no singular movement for today, and that is the same of the past several movements tend to coexist together. With those that are believed to be most influential/important being those that are talked about in text books. There are probably hundreds of movements right now, although only a handful will be remembered.

MadMeeper
02-07-2014, 02:40 PM
Some people do art to help themselves, and some people do art to help others. It's just a matter of where you fall. For me atm, I'm creating things that help me, someday Id like to create something that'll mean something to many other people.

It isn't to say that one is more important than the other to be honest. It's whats most important to you. There are plenty of artists in the world who will make nice things but wont be remembered 20/30/50/100 years down the road and thats just fine and dandy with them. Some people want to change the world with their art, and who knows maybe they will. We as humans loose something when we loose our ability to create, so to say that making something for yourself isn't important is really dangerous. Works for yourself and works to better society are both incredibly important.

wwretched
02-07-2014, 05:10 PM
Good thoughts guys!! :D It's really awesome reading through these and seeing what people come up with.

Hardrockangel
02-07-2014, 06:20 PM
Personally, I'm a big fan of both art for art's sake, as well as the idea that art can (and in some cases) should evoke emotion or discussion.

Art can be a way to draw people in via a "pretty picture" to then get them to think about something, like with politically motivated pieces (Banksy comes to mind). It can be seen as a way to provoke thought in minds of people who may otherwise not think about the issue or comment on it.

On the other hand, I feel like dictating that all art should have a function, didactic or otherwise, is like wishing for art to be dead. Art can be appreciated for it's beauty, for the technical skill of the maker or just because. There doesn't need to be a reason of "It makes a big statement" or "It provokes discussion". Art for art's sake, pretty much. If an artists feels like he or she shouldn't pick up a brush if they can't convey a message, then they are stifling their own creativity.

Then there's the issue of people overthinking art and making their pieces bloated with symbolism and meaning, out of this dogmatic thinking that if art does not have a message, it's not worth making.

I feel like I should probably get myself a cup of coffee to try and formulate my ramblings so far into a coherent statement but I just can't seem to brain today.
I hope this is still somewhat comprehensible. If not, feel free to point out what is unclear and I'll try my best to kickstart my brain and be more coherent.

TealMoon
02-07-2014, 08:31 PM
That thing about the ipad is hilarious.

Rinzy
02-07-2014, 11:20 PM
It depends what your goals are. Are you in it to be remembered, or are you in it for the gratification of creating something entertaining and ending there?

QT Melon
02-09-2014, 09:31 AM
You need to start liking to draw, to draw. So obviously you want to create what you want to draw. To draw as a professional it can become greater than that as you work for different companies.

The problem with Japan is that anime became one of their few sustaining industries after their economical issues. So they pandered to what fans want instead of the visions some may have held.

Being an animator in Japan wasn't exactly a sustainable model for many due to the fact when you started out the wages were really terrible. I believe it was something like 600 USD a month, it is very hard to live off of that little in Japan. So before the economic crash many people opted for other careers. When anime became a hot (and often overpaid for) commodity many companies who you wouldn't think would work on anime created studios so they'd have some income.

This created a glut of the market for overseas consumption. This may have further warped overseas perception of animation in Japan as well since it was specifically catered to demographics overseas.

FishNChips
02-09-2014, 12:11 PM
For me, drawing a picture is a method of storytelling.

I want to draw because I want to tell stories with those drawings. I love clever bits of symbolism, esoteric interpretations, and deep meanings that can be brought out of stories, but first and foremost I want to tell a good story that's enjoyable, depicts events, and gets people thinking about something or feeling that they're reading something that they enjoy because they relate to it or identify with it.

But if I made a widely enjoyed piece of work and the SJWs ran away with it and put political statements they're determined to be offended by in it's mouth, I'm going to be severely disappointed.

Ricoshae
02-09-2014, 02:14 PM
I think its important to keep audience in mind too. One of my college teachers stands firmly behind the belief that a pieces of art is not art unless it has a meaning behind it.

If my grandma asks me to draw her a picture, I'll usually draw her a general dog or scenery or landscape. I won't go deep into symbolism and meaning. Especially for commissions, I'm going to give the commissioner what they want. I'm not going to add an inner meaning to the picture unless specified. Recently I've been drawing for a gallery, and I don't delve into too much symbolism, because I want to sell it and sell it quickly. I'll have some pieces that are personal or different, but for the most part its safe and I know it will sell. And as Miyazaki points out, simple "otaku" type things sells. Its harder to take risks when you want a pay off. Although certain animes like Summer Wars seem to be taking a bit more risks.

But if we are talking about personal art, draw what you want whether or not it has meaning or depth.

Hewge
02-13-2014, 08:34 AM
I aspire to create the fairest wangs and otters in the land.

Red
02-13-2014, 10:52 AM
Everything I do and create is important to me, be it for the moment I do it to the long run, nothing goes to waste. And even though I've resigned myself to mostly do stuff to get them off my mind instead of trying to give others what I thought they'd want, turns out it's what I do now that does the trick, because it truly is something personal.

Art should always reflect what the artist is thinking and what message he wants to give others, otherwise people see through it and probably won't enjoy it. Well... That's my view on stuff anyway.

lorenith
02-13-2014, 11:15 AM
I've taken the road of telling people to find their own meaning in my work, If there is meaning I'm not interested in sharing it cause I hate sharing in that way, the rest of the time I do illustration.

It's actually been quite fun the few times my art has been on display to engage people viewing my work and ask them what they think of it without telling them who I am. It's a good experience for both them and myself, so it's probably the way I'd always make art if I had been considered a good enough artist to accepted into the fine art program.

Hlavco
02-13-2014, 04:54 PM
I mostly just draw to pass the time and I'm okay with that. I'm a hobbyist, not an artist.

Kringg
04-15-2014, 09:34 PM
In a sense, is it more important to create work that will be remembered or is it better to create work that caters to your own tastes?

... why not both?

MapleTerror
04-16-2014, 12:16 AM
I think people who took offense to what Miyazaki said, are taking it too personally.
If anything he's giving sound advice, but with plenty of salt & vinegar.

It's okay to be a little selfish, if you can relate to what you make, then you know other people can.
Art movements come and go, and they don't mean much nowadays. Although "Modernism" has become-
just as repressive as the religious institutions, over art back in the day. Hopefully something better will come along, and sink that ship- or it crashes into a metaphorical iceberg...

Lastly, niche works can be a double-edged sword IMO-