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Ibuuyk
01-27-2014, 10:22 AM
How do people treat pets where you live? Are you one of those people who would spend thousands for surgery on your chihuahua or would you let it die? Is your pet a member of your family or is it just a pet?

Where I live, in the woods, people get dogs for practical purposes; when you go take walks in the wood, it's always safer to have a dog with you to warn you that something's nearby. Inside, dogs are expected to stay calm and move when they're told to; when they aren't simply left outside. Letting a dog stay inside is a fairly new thing, in my grandma's generation dogs stayed outside or in barns day and night. If your dog breaks a leg or something, if it costs more than the dog's worth, people usually won't pay for it and the dog will must either heal with time, get used to it or it'll be put down since it's now useless; we do NOT pay thousands for surgeries... or get surgeries at all; these are reserved for people. If your dog dies, you can just get a new one for free anyway so I don't see why you'd pay anything to fix it in the first place.

If the dog doesn't behave or annoys you and won't get tamed, you just dump it in the woods and it'll get eaten by the wild animals (we have foxes, wolves, lynxes, pumas, bears and coyotes) at night; this is also why we have literally no stray animals.

This only applies in areas beyond rural, though. I don't know how it's like in the cities. So, how is it where you live?

Ruggy
01-27-2014, 11:46 AM
I'm in cushy suburbia-land, so while there's a bunch of folks who will espouse that 'it's just a ____, who cares how it's treated?' or use dogs for fighting rings, most folks treat their animals like family here. Animal shelters work hard to place animals, private rescues volunteer their time and money to match animals with good homes, and all that. Strays are a problem, and animals who are old/sick/aggressive (or simply unable to be placed) are put down, but it's a last resort.

I do think some breeds are much happier as working dogs, or else you have to exercise them for hours a day just to keep them happy. And I wish more people would consider breed traits before bringing home a dog like a husky, and wondering why they have this gorgeous-looking terror eating their house and dragging them down the street on walks.

My dog's a miniature poodle that I got from the pound (so no clues as to his heritage, but probably some puppy mill or careless backyard breeder somewhere) and he has allergies, bad knees, and a sensitive stomach. From a practical standpoint, he's useless, except as a watch dog. (And based on his reaction to being near a few caged rats, I can rest relatively assured that he will drive me up the wall if he ever detects rodents in the house. I'm not sure what he'd do if he caught one.)

But he's so attached to me and I'm so attached to him, he is pretty much my small, four-legged child. He lets me carry him like a toddler, and he falls asleep on my chest. I come home and he acts like it is the highlight of his freakin' day, and if I'm being honest, seeing him is the highlight of my day, too.

I would pay for an expensive surgery if it were to correct a problem that could be corrected (like an intestinal blockage or a broken bone) but if it were something chronic and questionable to treat (like cancer) I would spare him the suffering and just have him put down.

In my darkest days, his stupid fuzzy face has been the only reason I didn't do something stupid to myself, so I'm glad he's here. We saved each other, as doofy as that sounds.

Chuchi
01-27-2014, 12:15 PM
I would pay for an expensive surgery if it were to correct a problem that could be corrected (like an intestinal blockage or a broken bone) but if it were something chronic and questionable to treat (like cancer) I would spare him the suffering and just have him put down.

A few months ago, my mother had to do this. I can honestly say I have never seen her mourn like that, except for when a person died, so her grief was comparable. She loved that dog like it was her furry son.

Also, it's not doofy. ♥


I can't account for much of Finnish mentality, but from what I've seen, I would lean towards the relationship being friendly and the animal being treated much like family. At least in the areas I have been, pets have seemed as such. I see many dogs, as there are a lot of active Finns out walking about with their pets. I've seen plenty of cats prowling about, but they all look healthy and cared for, so I assume these are 'country cats.' This is at least from my own perspective. I've only lived here for... about 9 months, but my time here has been spent in a small town/country setting, and not in a larger city. While I have been to the capitol a few times, I imagine the mentality might differ a bit, with more people and more cultural influence.

Back in the US, I lived in Wisconsin. It was quite the same, in the city, animals were members of the family, even if they were service animals. In the country, it leaned a little more towards how you described, more practical, but the animals were still regarded highly and 'pampered,' I guess you could say. I have no experience from the 'deep woods.' I lived in the city most of my American life. My parents owned a dog and I swear, they treated that dog nicer than me sometimes, I'm not even exaggerating. The people I have known that lived in the country still pampered their dogs, but they did serve more practical purpose, such as guarding livestock and the property. Wisconsin is a state with a big focus on hunting, so there were quite a few hunting dogs, and while they were rigidly trained, I think they were quite pampered too. I've also had some experience and exposure (thankfully not on the receiving end) to dogs in the law enforcement setting, canine officers. They have their moments of pamper, but they are raised with a much more rigid focus on their training and obedience to their handler. To their handler, they are a partner.

Personally, I think domestic animals usually become like members of the family when I own them. I baby them, plaaaain and simple. I might still have a practical idea, such as my dog being able to alert me to things wrong in the home and to guard it while the family is away, but they are a pet and companion first, before a security system. I have not owned labor animals or livestock, only animals considered pets. I imagine that, even if I owned such creatures, I would likely still become attached. And I would pamper them!

While I might not particularly enjoy the reality you have presented, I accept it. That is, so to say, a cultural difference. I was raised in the city, where you were raised in the woods, and I can see the differences. I know of a few instances in big cities where dogs were purchased for more practical purposes than just being pets, ie. protection outside, home protection, etc. I know also that animals considered pets can be food sources for others. To me, the animal becomes family, and if they are sick and injured, just as I would any member of my family, I do what I can to help them. Coincidentally, my dog was born from two country dogs, and is now living the life of a spoiled, pampered house pet. :3

Fay V
01-27-2014, 12:17 PM
I treat my cat like family. I live in an apartment complex and got her as an emotional support animal, she's meant to be a companion for life. I pay to be sure she has good food and litter, I've paid to be sure she gets to the vet regularly and has the pet tracker thing even though she's indoor only, I paid a shit ton to get her home with me for christmas, and if she gets sick i'll probably pay a bunch to be sure she's well cared for.

But that's why I got her, she's someone around for years who greets me at the door and actively loves every thing about me. It's only fair for me to give her the best life possible.

TangoDelahunt
01-27-2014, 12:24 PM
I treat my cat like family. I live in an apartment complex and got her as an emotional support animal, she's meant to be a companion for life. I pay to be sure she has good food and litter, I've paid to be sure she gets to the vet regularly and has the pet tracker thing even though she's indoor only, I paid a shit ton to get her home with me for christmas, and if she gets sick i'll probably pay a bunch to be sure she's well cared for.

But that's why I got her, she's someone around for years who greets me at the door and actively loves every thing about me. It's only fair for me to give her the best life possible.

Confirmed for crazy cat lady in 3...2....


I'm joking. I have two cats (Kobold and Goblin) that I treat the same way. Since me, Vizaxyn, and Brace do not want kids those two kitties are pretty much our 'kids'.

QT Melon
01-27-2014, 02:29 PM
I own small pets like hamsters, due to their very short life spans, I would not pay too much if one gets sick. Well I did for one to get antibiotics which was fine because he was young at the time. However, a lot of surgery is very expensive and doesn't really extend their already short life span. I do stay with my hammies when I know it is their time to expire when I can.

They live in cages which put together is about the size of 20gallon tank with activities to do, such as tunnels, and the wheels. I take them out for small periods of time to get used to me handling them. Hamsters are not really "Cuddly" creatures as they're in fear for their lives being the prey of many other animals.

I keep my "conversations" short with hamsters. They do all know their own name. They will come out when I call it, though certain phrases they may like more.

For example Tanuki loves when I call him "little boy"

They are also learning key words like "Ball" so they tend to perk now when I mention the ball.

I try to respect their space. Hamsters are very territorial so you have to be a bit more smart with cage cleaning. If you get a new one, leave their cage along for at least 2 weeks but do water and food changes when necessary. They need to mark their territory, and will rub against it using their hip spots. If there's a particular spot that gets really dirty I will clean it. There's also a time you have to "potty train" your hamster.

Hamsters will set up one spot to pee. I observe them carefully to see where they will choose that spot. I then take the dirty litter and move it into the pod I have set up for potty. It's small clay balls where they can urinate in. I then spray the area where they first urinated in and clean it to remove the smell. This gets them to realize their pod is a good spot for potty. The reason I do this is so that I can change the pod once a week, instead of messing with the rest of the cage, so that it keeps them a bit happier between cage cleanings.

So I guess I treat my hamsters with a little more respect though with understanding of their short life spans ...and not simply the most "disposable pet"

Rico
01-27-2014, 09:58 PM
^Weirdly enough, I have a robo hamster right now that's almost 4! I'm surprised its gone so long and has never needed any vet care. What a trooper. :3

Dire Newt
01-27-2014, 10:09 PM
People around here just put their dogs outside and let them roam the streets. It's a wonder that there hasn't been an accident recently because they like to run out in front of cars and bark at them. I consider my dogs members of the family, so they're inside the house often. I usually only keep them outside on a run if I have to go somewhere.

Gamedog
01-27-2014, 10:11 PM
I tend to not treat dogs as spoiled as I would say.. a cat. Spoiling and babying a dog leads to undesired behaviour, not so much with a cat. I treat and consider my pets as family members, but I do not get delusional and consider them mini-children.
I believe both deserve vet care and healthy diets, and I believe that there's nothing wrong with a dog being tethered outdoors, as long as it receives adequate, warm housing and access to water 24/7.

I think most people here don't like tethering dogs and feel that cats "like being outside", cats are seen as disposable, dogs are babied, vets charge out the ass because they can.

Tiido
01-27-2014, 11:37 PM
Our family dog has got a fair bit of money put into surgeries and medications. Nasty bites from other dogs, car accidents... you name it. He will be 15 in March, age has been starting to show itself on him.
I cannot say how other people treat their pets in my area though, hopefully just as well as us.

Ruggy
01-27-2014, 11:46 PM
I tend to not treat dogs as spoiled as I would say.. a cat. Spoiling and babying a dog leads to undesired behaviour, not so much with a cat. I treat and consider my pets as family members, but I do not get delusional and consider them mini-children.

Aughh I cringe when I see this in action. My aunt's version of trying to get her dog out of the kitchen is talking to the dog, in a sweet high voice, asking the dog to get out of the kitchen. The dog is a dog, it does not speak English, and your lovey-sweet voice is not going to convince the stupid critter that it needs to go.

Pleading with a dog to stop doing stuff, or laughing as it growls, or petting it to try to 'get it to calm down' when it's scared or aggressive, just... No. What might work for a human child does not work for a dog. Love your dog, include them in your family, that is great, but never forget that they are still domesticated wolves, with all of the instincts that brings with it.

Though a lot of things from dog training spill over into class management. P: Upright body language, a calm and even tone, positive reinforcement based on actions, and consistent rules. Works for kids and dogs!

Gamedog
01-28-2014, 12:04 AM
Aughh I cringe when I see this in action. My aunt's version of trying to get her dog out of the kitchen is talking to the dog, in a sweet high voice, asking the dog to get out of the kitchen. The dog is a dog, it does not speak English, and your lovey-sweet voice is not going to convince the stupid critter that it needs to go.

Pleading with a dog to stop doing stuff, or laughing as it growls, or petting it to try to 'get it to calm down' when it's scared or aggressive, just... No. What might work for a human child does not work for a dog. Love your dog, include them in your family, that is great, but never forget that they are still domesticated wolves, with all of the instincts that brings with it.

Though a lot of things from dog training spill over into class management. P: Upright body language, a calm and even tone, positive reinforcement based on actions, and consistent rules. Works for kids and dogs!

One thing that drives me nuts about most dog owners is that they seem to believe that dogs understand english - dogs don't understand English *at all*, they understand links between words, feelings, and actions, that is IT. A dog is not going to understand what you mean when you say "please get out of the kitchen" until you establish a link between that set of words with the action of walking to a desired location.
Most people fail this and fail to realize that the dog performs the command because he hears a certain mumble of sounds and his brain clicks "oh hey, I'm supposed to do this when I hear that sound".

One thing I *really hate* is when people punish their dogs for growling when it's in obvious discomfort. Allowing your dog to be aggressive towards your children is not okay and there is some serious training needed, but to scold your dog for growling when your baby is kneeing it in the stomach??? That's where we get "it was completely at random!" from, and I believe it stems from the ignorant application of child discipline techniques onto pets, aka "furbabies".

Ruggy
01-28-2014, 12:17 AM
One thing that drives me nuts about most dog owners is that they seem to believe that dogs understand english - dogs don't understand English *at all*, they understand links between words, feelings, and actions, that is IT. A dog is not going to understand what you mean when you say "please get out of the kitchen" until you establish a link between that set of words with the action of walking to a desired location.
Most people fail this and fail to realize that the dog performs the command because he hears a certain mumble of sounds and his brain clicks "oh hey, I'm supposed to do this when I hear that sound".

One thing I *really hate* is when people punish their dogs for growling when it's in obvious discomfort. Allowing your dog to be aggressive towards your children is not okay and there is some serious training needed, but to scold your dog for growling when your baby is kneeing it in the stomach??? That's where we get "it was completely at random!" from, and I believe it stems from the ignorant application of child discipline techniques onto pets, aka "furbabies".

I had a roommate who swore up and down her dog understood her. She'd scold at him for pooping in the house hours after the fact, and stuff like that. Usually after it happened, I'd say something horrible in a sweet voice to my dog, like, "I'm going to sell you to the circus! Yes! They're going to make meat pies out of you!" And he'd sit there with a dumb happy look on his face because I was paying attention to him, and my roommate would say, "Don't tell him that!" "He's a dog, he doesn't understand what the hell I'm saying." "Well, my dog understands me."

And I could never quite tell if she was joking. But I don't think she was, because she'd keep yelling at her dog for shitting in the apartment, until my other roommate and I finally convinced her to crate the little bastard while we were all out of the house. (You would not think it'd have taken us months to convince her to contain her dog that was peeing and pooping all over the living room, but it did. Sigh.)

And here I'm just impressed by my dog learning a few important word-sounds, like "go outside?" "where's your toy?" "is Wesley hungry?" or "go potty!" If I let him out and he turns right around to stare at the door, and I tell him to go potty, he knows he has to go pee on something before I let him back inside. And without a whole lot of formal training on my part, smart little bugger.

But yeah, she'd yell at her dog, and any criticism of her methods offered by me would just be met with, "But look at him! He knows he screwed up!" His is cowering because you are yelling at him, that is just submissive posture, he has no idea what is happening. Ughh. Ughhh.

Willow
01-28-2014, 12:27 AM
I think people around here for the most part treat their pets as companions but also realize they're still an animal. Even people who use their dogs primarily for hunting still treat them well.

And I pretty much treat my cat the same way and would probably pay medical expenses so long as it ensured he wouldn't suffer anymore. Technically speaking, any medical costs already exceed what I paid for him because I didn't pay anything for him :u

Vae
01-28-2014, 01:10 AM
We treat our cat pretty much the same way we treat each other and ourselves.
Cheap food, sometimes a rare more expensive treat (although our cat doesn't like them, so we stopped buying those), and no doctor / vet visits unless it seems ABSOLUTELY necessary.
She doesn't really have a whole lot of bad behaviors, besides scratching the odd thing (which we shoo her away from), so there's not a whole lot of scolding to be had. She's not totally spoiled, either. She's just... like a roommate, that doesn't pay rent and sometimes crawls into bed with us.

Gamedog
01-28-2014, 01:12 AM
I had a roommate who swore up and down her dog understood her. She'd scold at him for pooping in the house hours after the fact, and stuff like that. Usually after it happened, I'd say something horrible in a sweet voice to my dog, like, "I'm going to sell you to the circus! Yes! They're going to make meat pies out of you!" And he'd sit there with a dumb happy look on his face because I was paying attention to him, and my roommate would say, "Don't tell him that!" "He's a dog, he doesn't understand what the hell I'm saying." "Well, my dog understands me."

And I could never quite tell if she was joking. But I don't think she was, because she'd keep yelling at her dog for shitting in the apartment, until my other roommate and I finally convinced her to crate the little bastard while we were all out of the house. (You would not think it'd have taken us months to convince her to contain her dog that was peeing and pooping all over the living room, but it did. Sigh.)

And here I'm just impressed by my dog learning a few important word-sounds, like "go outside?" "where's your toy?" "is Wesley hungry?" or "go potty!" If I let him out and he turns right around to stare at the door, and I tell him to go potty, he knows he has to go pee on something before I let him back inside. And without a whole lot of formal training on my part, smart little bugger.

But yeah, she'd yell at her dog, and any criticism of her methods offered by me would just be met with, "But look at him! He knows he screwed up!" His is cowering because you are yelling at him, that is just submissive posture, he has no idea what is happening. Ughh. Ughhh.

Grade A dogmommy there.
Half of them wouldn't dare push their dog off the couch to sit down, but my god are they ever ready to jump on someone who would treat their dog like.. A DOG.
The funniest thing about petmommies is that they coddle their pets as if they were their children, complain about anybody who disciplines their pets, and fail to realize that if their pet were an actual human child, they would be completely controlled by their kid lol.

"My furbabies!!!!"
Your furbaby is an animal, an animal whose natural instincts tell it to eat Purr the cat, not befriend her, your dog is not a child lol.

lorenith
01-28-2014, 01:33 AM
While my family all in general loves their dogs, they still are quite firm with them in terms of behavior. My mom has three large breed dogs (A german shepherd a doberman mix, and a red bone hound) that are all so well trained that you could open the door, and even though they are extremely excited to go out for a walk or play ball, they will not move until told they are allowed. The shepherd is crate trained although they rarely crate her anymore (last I heard they had to crate her was after she had been spayed because she got an infection and things, and she had to be kept fairly still).

All the dogs are very loving (I've never met the red bone hound, but judging on the phone calls with my mom she is also a wonderful dog), they are protective of their pack (give a warning bark), and they are a joy to be around the times I've visited.

I on the other hand have cats (I would love to have a dog, but I am too low energy a person and it wouldn't be fair to the dog). We only recently went to cats though, had only one, but then a mother had kittens on our porch. We took in the mother, and the friendliest kitten, when we are able (when they are 8 months old) we are probably going to trap the two remaining brothers to bring to one of the local barn cat societies.

Either way, we love our cats, but we can be strict with them, so we don't have problems with them jumping onto counters and the like. We recently had to pay quite a few vet bills for one as he got a stomach ulcer, and I wouldn't have it any other way. And there are more down the line once we take in the two new cats to get spayed.

The way I see it, if you're going to take in an animal, you better take care of it. I don't see any good reason to euthanize an animal that still could have a long and happy life just because it's inconvenient to care for it when something goes wrong. If something like that is an inconvenience, than don't get an animal in the first place.

Nightpaws
01-28-2014, 06:38 AM
For me, mine is part of the family. We'd spend as much as needed to make sure she recovered and in the past we've had to spend a fair sum on her for health problems she had as a kitten. She gets fed regularly, and allowed out whenever there's people in the house as she's very particular about when she wants to be outside.

In general over here (West of Scotland) most people are very kind towards other peoples animals and if your cat is wandering around the street they'll probably have their belly rubbed by passers by. In general people watch out for them but in recent years we've had a few sick people attacking other peoples pets, which is partially why we only let her out when we're around to check on her.

Xolani
01-28-2014, 08:44 AM
I don't have pets in the conventional sense of a "pet", but I do have 6 honeybee colonies, with about 60,000 bees in them each, which means I have in the region of 360,000 pets, if you want to see them that way.

Because workers live about 6-8 weeks, you stop getting bothered by seeing the occasional dead bee around the apiary, because that's normal. Every 2-3 years you have to replace the queen in a colony (their natural lifespan is up to 5 years, but their quality and ability to suppress swarming diminishes with time), normally by either buying one, or breeding one yourself. Breeding is a hit-and-miss thing in itself (the queen's genetics and the genetics of the male drones she mates with, which occurs with drones from other colonies and with often unknown genetic stock) and so you get used to having to... shall we say... be "selective" with the queens you choose to keep. It's something I hate doing.

Honeybee colonies overwinter, which is why they store huge amounts of honey, as food stores for the winter months. Sometimes, a colony doesn't make it through the winter, and that's a particularly bad problem now as opposed to in the past (last winter, 34% of honeybee colonies in the UK didn't survive the winter). Opening a hive in the early spring and seeing nothing but a pile of dead bees is something I'll never get used to, and it upsets me a lot whenever I see it.

Willow
01-28-2014, 08:53 AM
I don't have pets in the conventional sense of a "pet", but I do have 6 honeybee colonies, with about 60,000 bees in them each, which means I have in the region of 360,000 pets, if you want to see them that way.

Because workers live about 6-8 weeks, you stop getting bothered by seeing the occasional dead bee around the apiary, because that's normal. Every 2-3 years you have to replace the queen in a colony (their natural lifespan is up to 5 years, but their quality and ability to suppress swarming diminishes with time), normally by either buying one, or breeding one yourself. Breeding is a hit-and-miss thing in itself (the queen's genetics and the genetics of the male drones she mates with, which occurs with drones from other colonies and with often unknown genetic stock) and so you get used to having to... shall we say... be "selective" with the queens you choose to keep. It's something I hate doing.

Honeybee colonies overwinter, which is why they store huge amounts of honey, as food stores for the winter months. Sometimes, a colony doesn't make it through the winter, and that's a particularly bad problem now as opposed to in the past (last winter, 34% of honeybee colonies in the UK didn't survive the winter). Opening a hive in the early spring and seeing nothing but a pile of dead bees is something I'll never get used to, and it upsets me a lot whenever I see it.
I'll bet. Especially if you went through all the trouble of breeding and everything.

So do you make your own honey or are you keeping bees just because?

Chuchi
01-28-2014, 08:59 AM
I don't have pets in the conventional sense of a "pet", but I do have 6 honeybee colonies, with about 60,000 bees in them each, which means I have in the region of 360,000 pets, if you want to see them that way.

Because workers live about 6-8 weeks, you stop getting bothered by seeing the occasional dead bee around the apiary, because that's normal. Every 2-3 years you have to replace the queen in a colony (their natural lifespan is up to 5 years, but their quality and ability to suppress swarming diminishes with time), normally by either buying one, or breeding one yourself. Breeding is a hit-and-miss thing in itself (the queen's genetics and the genetics of the male drones she mates with, which occurs with drones from other colonies and with often unknown genetic stock) and so you get used to having to... shall we say... be "selective" with the queens you choose to keep. It's something I hate doing.

Honeybee colonies overwinter, which is why they store huge amounts of honey, as food stores for the winter months. Sometimes, a colony doesn't make it through the winter, and that's a particularly bad problem now as opposed to in the past (last winter, 34% of honeybee colonies in the UK didn't survive the winter). Opening a hive in the early spring and seeing nothing but a pile of dead bees is something I'll never get used to, and it upsets me a lot whenever I see it.

I gotta say, fricking props for keeping bees. I like bees and all, and the idea appealed to me before, until I realized I am kind of terrified of them. Not sure what it is. I think it's the mass buzzing, just really gets under my skin. Stupid as that sounds. I like looking at the hives, from a distance, but if I see a few near me, I start to get antsy. :\ But hey, good luck with your colonies, and hopefully they have survived winter when it comes time to check. :D

QT Melon
01-28-2014, 10:33 AM
^Weirdly enough, I have a robo hamster right now that's almost 4! I'm surprised its gone so long and has never needed any vet care. What a trooper. :3

Dwarfs and Robo hamsters live longer than Syrians.

Chuchi
01-28-2014, 10:39 AM
Dwarfs and Robo hamsters live longer than Syrians.

I'm not going to lie, I thought robo hamster meant a toy, robotic hamster. :\

I'll see myself out...

QT Melon
01-28-2014, 11:10 AM
I'm not going to lie, I thought robo hamster meant a toy, robotic hamster. :\

I'll see myself out...

Well considering their energy levels you'd think they were.

It's short for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roborovski_hamster They are rather tiny, and harder to handle than Syrians due to their quick energy. I had thought about getting a dwarf or Robo but I'd need a smaller cage. My cages are for Syrians.

05gsGPi2Ksw

Ruggy
01-28-2014, 11:12 AM
I gotta say, fricking props for keeping bees. I like bees and all, and the idea appealed to me before, until I realized I am kind of terrified of them. Not sure what it is. I think it's the mass buzzing, just really gets under my skin. Stupid as that sounds. I like looking at the hives, from a distance, but if I see a few near me, I start to get antsy. :\ But hey, good luck with your colonies, and hopefully they have survived winter when it comes time to check. :D

Saaaame. I am 100% a fan of bees and their role in nature; you go, pollinators! Plants need you, and we need plants!

... But if they get too close to me, I will flip out and run away screaming like a small child, despite being perfectly aware that you need to piss off your average bee pretty badly before they sting you. :I It's embarrassing.

Chuchi
01-28-2014, 11:17 AM
Well considering their energy levels you'd think they were.

It's short for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roborovski_hamster They are rather tiny, and harder to handle than Syrians due to their quick energy. I had thought about getting a dwarf or Robo but I'd need a smaller cage. My cages are for Syrians.

05gsGPi2Ksw

HGGGGGG- holy christ, that little guy is adorable!


Saaaame. I am 100% a fan of bees and their role in nature; you go, pollinators! Plants need you, and we need plants!

... But if they get too close to me, I will flip out and run away screaming like a small child, despite being perfectly aware that you need to piss off your average bee pretty badly before they sting you. :I It's embarrassing.

Right? I've jumped into water, fully clothed, because there were bees buzzing around me. Probably minding their own business, just seeing how things were over in my area, but it was enough to scare me. I'm such a baby. Q^Q But I, too, respect the bee and its place and role in nature. Just... from a far distance.

Ibuuyk
01-28-2014, 11:35 AM
So many replies and no-one's called me a monster yet, I'm impressed! If this were FAF, I'd have pages and pages of flamewars within the first day :V

Don't ever change, Weasyl :P

Chuchi
01-28-2014, 11:44 AM
So many replies and no-one's called me a monster yet, I'm impressed! If this were FAF, I'd have pages and pages of flamewars within the first day :V

Don't ever change, Weasyl :P

While I did express that I disagreed with the way animals in your area were treated, or rather from your background? Is that a better phrase? Well, you get my point. Anyway, I did say I didn't like that reality, but I accept it because it's a reality, I'm not going to smash my keyboard and go batshit about it. People eat dogs and cats and I don't go batshit about that. Different perspectives, that's all.

But I can call you a monster if you want. D:< But... then it's kind of hypocritical, considering I'm a werewolf. A civil one, imagine that.

I agree though, it is nice to see this has been a tame discussion, given the way it opened. X3

QT Melon
01-28-2014, 12:19 PM
So many replies and no-one's called me a monster yet, I'm impressed! If this were FAF, I'd have pages and pages of flamewars within the first day :V

Don't ever change, Weasyl :P

While I think some of what happens to them is cruel, there's no reason to constantly fight over it if things are not going to change. Animals were bred for domestic purposes so they're not always going to be treated the same way depending on culture. Some areas they're a food source or delicacy. People can make racist remarks about it and while I certainly would not eat one, who knows what circumstances people are under where things will change.

Guinea pigs are a delicacy in Latin American areas where we only see them as a pet in the US.

Chuchi
01-28-2014, 12:28 PM
While I think some of what happens to them is cruel, there's no reason to constantly fight over it if things are not going to change. Animals were bred for domestic purposes so they're not always going to be treated the same way depending on culture. Some areas they're a food source or delicacy. People can make racist remarks about it and while I certainly would not eat one, who knows what circumstances people are under where things will change.

Guinea pigs are a delicacy in Latin American areas where we only see them as a pet in the US.

Yeah, there is a festival or something, if I recall. They dress the pigs up and have a big party for them and then they eat them the next day. And that is just one of a great many cultural difference that might seem barbaric to the Western world, but normal elsewhere.

Some countries and cultures eat horses. I have eaten horse, and I enjoyed it. This might upset some people. :\ But that's ok.

Rico
01-28-2014, 01:18 PM
Well considering their energy levels you'd think they were.

It's short for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roborovski_hamster They are rather tiny, and harder to handle than Syrians due to their quick energy. I had thought about getting a dwarf or Robo but I'd need a smaller cage. My cages are for Syrians.

05gsGPi2Ksw
Honestly, I never hand-tamed my robo because of all of that. They're fast, fragile, and flighty. But it's easy to get him into a contained area because he'll willingly crawl into running balls and carriers. I like watching him more than anything and I think it's too late to really try and teach hand taming to him because it's just unnecessary stress at that point. I kind of want to get a pair of female gerbils after he passes away and actually take the time to hand tame them. I've owned rats, guinea pigs, and hamsters so they should be fairly easy to care for (at least in comparison to things like rats).
However I may just give up rodents altogether and focus on reptiles due to their longer lifespans. I find reptiles more rewarding to work with but I do miss having cuddly rats sometimes too. hnngh.

QT Melon
01-28-2014, 02:30 PM
Some countries and cultures eat horses. I have eaten horse, and I enjoyed it. This might upset some people. :\ But that's ok.

My sister has owned horses so it's a bit harder for me to want to eat one. I don't blame others who do. I have had deer and was curious about how rabbit tastes but of course that's like eating Bambi and Thumper to many people (even though in other areas deer are actually considered a pest).

I also have owned birds. I am more of a bird and dog person, but because of my apartment I don't think I'd be able to keep a dog. Also, due to my work hours and living on my own, I'd feel bad because both dogs and birds are rather gregarious creatures.

So I stuck with animals who don't mind me being out because they're solitary. Though they love to come out and watch me as much as I watch them.

lorenith
01-28-2014, 03:40 PM
I would totally eat a guinea pig if given the opportunity...but not if it was someones pet.

Most of us probably consume horse without even realizing it, it's surprising how much gelatin is used in things as filler and stuff. >.> I'll admit though I don't think I'd eat dog or cat, which is fine cause I've heard they aren't especially tasty anyway. (If I had to kill anything myself to eat it I would have to go vegetarian, but I already have trouble keeping a healthy weight/diet without taking meat out of it so there's no way I'm switching).


Now bee keeping, that sounds really cool, I don' think I could do it, but I find it and really any form of animal husbandry to be quite fascinating.

Gamedog
01-28-2014, 04:38 PM
I've got a friend who raises guinea pigs for meat. I think she has the most "realistic" (subjective, I know) view about pet raising than anybody else I know.
She sees rabbits as pets and a food source, and that's something that I wish more people would do, considering how massively overpopulated pet rabbits are in shelters and Craigslist across North America.

Ratte
01-28-2014, 04:55 PM
I've got a friend who raises guinea pigs for meat. I think she has the most "realistic" (subjective, I know) view about pet raising than anybody else I know.
She sees rabbits as pets and a food source, and that's something that I wish more people would do, considering how massively overpopulated pet rabbits are in shelters and Craigslist across North America.

Rabbit is pretty tasty and lean. I kinda wish rabbit meat was more "acceptable" here in the US since there are just so bloody many of them and they multiply like, well, rabbits. Not like you'll have a shortage with meat-raising stock.

Gamedog
01-28-2014, 04:59 PM
Rabbit is pretty tasty and lean. I kinda wish rabbit meat was more "acceptable" here in the US since there are just so bloody many of them and they multiply like, well, rabbits. Not like you'll have a shortage with meat-raising stock.

I agree. That issue would be non-existant if more people were open to eating them, there would never be rabbits in shelters lol.
I'd even go far enough to say that rabbits aren't really good pets at all for most people, most people want a pet they can hug and snuggle and most rabbits won't offer that. So they give up their rabbit because it's "mean" when it kicks them for picking it up, when the poor thing could be made into a dinner and a really warm pair of gloves for free.

Rabbit meat is so lean that you can "starve" if you live off of it... weird huh?

lorenith
01-28-2014, 07:39 PM
It's not really starving, it's more like a combination of malnutrition and poisoning, we need certain fats to survive and rabbit meat absolutely lacks those fats. And too much of anything (in the case of rabbit Protein) is going to be a problem.

I wasn't aware that there was a problem with eating rabbits in America, but I've known people that would happily fry up a young squirrel and eat it (I'd probably be happy to join them honestly). So maybe I just have a different experience in that area than others?

That said, I do have hang ups with eating anything that someone is emotionally attached to. It feels a little rude to buy animals intended to be companion animals for the purpose of eating them, and I definitely wouldn't eat something that someone else had an attachment too.

Gamedog
01-28-2014, 07:44 PM
It's not really starving, it's more like a combination of malnutrition and poisoning, we need certain fats to survive and rabbit meat absolutely lacks those fats. And too much of anything (in the case of rabbit Protein) is going to be a problem.

I wasn't aware that there was a problem with eating rabbits in America, but I've known people that would happily fry up a young squirrel and eat it (I'd probably be happy to join them honestly). So maybe I just have a different experience in that area than others?

That said, I do have hang ups with eating anything that someone is emotionally attached to. It feels a little rude to buy animals intended to be companion animals for the purpose of eating them, and I definitely wouldn't eat something that someone else had an attachment too.

Yeah that's why I put it in quotes. I forget the actual term for it, but it can happen if you live off of deer as well. I imagine it would be the same with goat meat..?? Goat is pretty lean as well.

For the most part, people in North America view rabbits as cute little Easter presents and nothing else, the thought of eating a poor little fluffy rabbit will get you called a murderer!! How dare you!!!!
Then there's people who breed them purely for meat, who can't really understand why people mass breed them as pets and have to dump them off at the shelter because they're overpopulated, hahha.
'Course, a breed like a dwarf or a Lionhead probably wouldn't be good eating...

lorenith
01-28-2014, 07:50 PM
I really hate that "Easter Bunny" thing (or the owl thing when Harry Potter was first popular, or the Dalmation thing when 101 Dalmations was popular), it makes me crazy that people can't be responsible pet owners at all. I am aware of the pet rabbit population problem somewhat, just not the part where people don't consider rabbits (in general) ok to eat. I'd say it must be regional, but I've lived in many parts of the US and the places I haven't visited I've met people.

I do believe you though, just the same that lots of people would think it awful if I openly told them I'd totally eat a guinea pig if given the opportunity.

I DO have a friend that kept a rabbit for a really long time, he was litter trained, and she basically let him roam the house and stuff when she was home. But she's the only responsible rabbit owner I've ever met in person. She recently got a new one (the old one was...reallllyyyyy olllld).

Ratte
01-28-2014, 08:07 PM
From what I've seen, generally the rabbits bred for meat are flemish giants or californians, two very large breeds. I'm sure some rabbits are alright as pets but rabbits are pretty dumb and aren't animals that are super cuddly or affectionate in most cases. They remind me a lot of mice-- they're just sort of there.

My very first pet ever was a rabbit but we didn't have him for long since he was given to someone else after a while. He was actually pretty spunky and had a lot of personality. Usually, though, you're not as lucky, and a lot of "pocket pets" are just cute to look at without having much to them. Some hamsters and gerbils can have personality, as can some rabbits, but I can say that from having a lot of them, rats are hella smart and have a lot of really great personalities, plus they're very loving and affectionate to boot. Despite their short lifespans, I'd much rather have rats than mice, rabbits, hamsters, or gerbils.

Gamedog
01-28-2014, 08:20 PM
From what I've seen, generally the rabbits bred for meat are flemish giants or californians, two very large breeds. I'm sure some rabbits are alright as pets but rabbits are pretty dumb and aren't animals that are super cuddly or affectionate in most cases. They remind me a lot of mice-- they're just sort of there.

My very first pet ever was a rabbit but we didn't have him for long since he was given to someone else after a while. He was actually pretty spunky and had a lot of personality. Usually, though, you're not as lucky, and a lot of "pocket pets" are just cute to look at without having much to them. Some hamsters and gerbils can have personality, as can some rabbits, but I can say that from having a lot of them, rats are hella smart and have a lot of really great personalities, plus they're very loving and affectionate to boot. Despite their short lifespans, I'd much rather have rats than mice, rabbits, hamsters, or gerbils.

Yeah the really meaty ones, New Zealand (actually an American breed, believe it or not!) is good for meat and fur. Most meat rabbitries stick to NZL and Californians because Flemish Giants are a bit cumbersome and they need a LOT of room to even just stretch out. Take into consideration that rabbits kind of need to be on wire floors in rabbitries, so Flemish Giants are susceptible to sore hocks because of their weight. :(

That's what I tell anybody who is interested in getting rabbits, hamsters, gerbils, etc.. they're not really too friendly, of course there ARE exceptions, just with every animal, but in general they don't like being held or touched. Rats are the way to go.

Unfortunately, a lot of people still hold the ignorant belief that rats are inherently dirty and disease-ridden, and there are just way, way, way too many people who see any small animal like a rat, rabbit, hamster, etc as disposable. "Oh, just get another!" when it dies... usually of tumors..

Ibuuyk
01-28-2014, 09:38 PM
Here it's the opposite. We hunt rabbits 'cause they're delicious and I haven't met anyone who'd even consider having one as a pet.

QT Melon
01-28-2014, 10:34 PM
Most of us probably consume horse without even realizing it, it's surprising how much gelatin is used in things as filler and stuff. >.> I'll admit though I don't think I'd eat dog or cat, which is fine cause I've heard they aren't especially tasty anyway. (If I had to kill anything myself to eat it I would have to go vegetarian, but I already have trouble keeping a healthy weight/diet without taking meat out of it so there's no way I'm switching).


From what I understand the consumption of dogs in the Philippines is a "manly" kind of thing. it isn't cheap to just go out and eat a dog, and it's some kind of cultural "yeah you are a man" kind of rite and maybe some mythology like how people sell Tiger Penis to cure certain conditions.

Gamedog
01-28-2014, 10:41 PM
From what I understand the consumption of dogs in the Philippines is a "manly" kind of thing. it isn't cheap to just go out and eat a dog, and it's some kind of cultural "yeah you are a man" kind of rite and maybe some mythology like how people sell Tiger Penis to cure certain conditions.

It's actually illegal to raise and kill dogs for meat in the Phillipines, but native tribes continue to eat it and people still eat it illegally.
Dog meat is considered a delicacy in China because when the country was going through hardships, dog meat is what the people survived on, so now it is considered very important there. Kind of weird how it contrasts from our North American view on it, right?

Dog meat is legal to cook, sell, and eat in Canada, provided that it is done in front of federal inspectors, just to make sure that no cruelty is involved.

Ibuuyk
01-29-2014, 12:37 AM
From what I understand the consumption of dogs in the Philippines is a "manly" kind of thing. it isn't cheap to just go out and eat a dog, and it's some kind of cultural "yeah you are a man" kind of rite and maybe some mythology like how people sell Tiger Penis to cure certain conditions.


It's actually illegal to raise and kill dogs for meat in the Phillipines, but native tribes continue to eat it and people still eat it illegally.
Dog meat is considered a delicacy in China because when the country was going through hardships, dog meat is what the people survived on, so now it is considered very important there. Kind of weird how it contrasts from our North American view on it, right?

Dog meat is legal to cook, sell, and eat in Canada, provided that it is done in front of federal inspectors, just to make sure that no cruelty is involved.

China eats EVERYTHING's penises, it's their version of the "enlarge your penis" spam emails, amongst other supposed cures and miracles that is actually absolute bullshit.

Chinese people just like the D but they don't wanna seem gay, so they make up excuses :V

Also, where in Canada is it legal to eat dog meat? 'cause I've never heard of such a thing.

Gamedog
01-29-2014, 12:52 AM
Also, where in Canada is it legal to eat dog meat? 'cause I've never heard of such a thing.

Everywhere in Canada, it's just that most people wouldn't dream of eating dog.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canine-carcasses-at-edmonton-restaurant-were-coyotes-1.382176
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/dog-meat-legal-health-inspector-says-1.408407

Ratte
01-29-2014, 03:59 AM
Unfortunately, a lot of people still hold the ignorant belief that rats are inherently dirty and disease-ridden, and there are just way, way, way too many people who see any small animal like a rat, rabbit, hamster, etc as disposable. "Oh, just get another!" when it dies... usually of tumors..

When my rats die I get pretty torn up about it. I haven't had any of my males get tumors, but my females got them at the drop of a hat after they got to about two years of age. I've had all sorts of different pets but rats continue to be my favorite. They're smart, social, affectionate, and put up with my bullshit.

I mean, who wouldn't love this face (https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1/302114_231426466909837_7009925_n.jpg)?

Gamedog
01-29-2014, 04:03 AM
When my rats die I get pretty torn up about it. I haven't had any of my males get tumors, but my females got them at the drop of a hat after they got to about two years of age. I've had all sorts of different pets but rats continue to be my favorite. They're smart, social, affectionate, and put up with my bullshit.

I mean, who wouldn't love this face (https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1/302114_231426466909837_7009925_n.jpg)?

Rats are amazing animals, and fortunately their popularity is growing amongst pet owners. I really wish they didn't get tumors so often though.

Your rat is adorable :) I miss ratty faces, I've got none at the moment. I miss rat whiskers tickling me while they climb around my neck.

Rico
01-29-2014, 04:04 AM
Excuse me I think you mean this face
http://i.imgur.com/VxsfhjT.jpg

I miss my incredibly testicle-like rat :c

Ratte
01-29-2014, 04:09 AM
Rats are amazing animals, and fortunately their popularity is growing amongst pet owners. I really wish they didn't get tumors so often though.

Your rat is adorable :) I miss ratty faces, I've got none at the moment. I miss rat whiskers tickling me while they climb around my neck.

All the rats I have pictures of are long since gone, sadly, but I still love the pictures I took of them. The three I had at the time all had their own personality and were so much different from one another. I'll be happy to be done with school since I can actually be around for my pets again and not be a state away.


Excuse me I think you mean this face
http://i.imgur.com/VxsfhjT.jpg

I miss my incredibly testicle-like rat :c

No I meant this face
https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/t1/267296_214566731929144_506661_n.jpg

bonus for testiclehat

also scrotumrat with pubestache

lorenith
01-29-2014, 04:13 AM
I'm almost hesitant to ask if anyone here keeps herps (or arthropods), but not hesitant enough to not actually ask.

Or any fish? (I've got a small tank with some cherry barbs...I want to get a big tank with Rams and a whole horde of coridoras some day though).

Rico
01-29-2014, 04:26 AM
I keep 6 snakes. I tend to pay more for their vet care than most things I own for a few reasons:
-They have longer lifespans than even your average cat or dog, so any vetting can save them many years and not just one or two like rodents.
-Exotic vets know a lot more than me. Internet info isn't as common as it is for cats and dogs, so I treat anything minor with a vet trip the instant it shows up.
-Breeding stock. Can't breed shit if they're sick. Females will get eggbound and die if you're especially bad at herping. That's encouragement to not treat them like objects and actually pay attention to minor changes in behavior or appearance.

That being said they don't cost as much as cats or dogs in general care, especially since I buy frozen/thawed food in bulk.
I could go on for pages about my precious scalebabies but I won't. If it were possible to spoil a snake I would but instead I just annoy them with ceaseless baby talk and unwanted socialization.

Batty Krueger
01-29-2014, 05:37 AM
Our dog is family, and Id seriously injure anyone if they tried to hurt her or mistreat her in anyway. Same with any other member in my family.
Anytime shes sick or something is wrong we immediately take her to our vet and get whatever she needs done. Our dog is like the daughter my mom never had and a sister Ive never had. My family loves her just like we love eachother and I believe she feels the same in her little doggy head.

QT Melon
01-30-2014, 10:12 AM
The other side of this are people who think they are some kind of savior to animals which end up being more cruel to them.

Over 400 snakes is a bit much.
http://www.theprovince.com/technology/Snakes+alive+California+Teacher+arrested+home+with +more+than+pythons/9444859/story.html

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-rotting-snakes-stench-20140129,0,5068221.story#axzz2rtJZPGFt

Batty Krueger
01-30-2014, 10:26 AM
The other side of this are people who think they are some kind of savior to animals which end up being more cruel to them.

Over 400 snakes is a bit much.
http://www.theprovince.com/technology/Snakes+alive+California+Teacher+arrested+home+with +more+than+pythons/9444859/story.html


http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-rotting-snakes-stench-20140129,0,5068221.story#axzz2rtJZPGFt


I watched this on the news earlier, made me sick and made my friend cry . He really loves snakes, he was already upset about an unrelated subject but this made it ten times worse :(

Rico
01-30-2014, 01:20 PM
The other side of this are people who think they are some kind of savior to animals which end up being more cruel to them.

Over 400 snakes is a bit much.
http://www.theprovince.com/technology/Snakes+alive+California+Teacher+arrested+home+with +more+than+pythons/9444859/story.html

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-rotting-snakes-stench-20140129,0,5068221.story#axzz2rtJZPGFt
You know what impresses me about this story? Not once are people saying GOOD, DEAD SNAKES ARE BETTER THAN LIVE ONES. Nope, finally people are acknowledging that snakes can be abused to.
And then I cried a lot because those poor babies. All he had to do was hire someone to help, or invest more effort into care, but no. What an awful shithead.

Reminds me of how someone in the reptile community got sent to prison and refused to contact anyone about it, and ALL of his crested geckos died, including Vegan Cupcake, a gecko famous for all her amazing genetics:
http://i.imgur.com/lqdFE6E.jpg

it's just awful. people need to learn to fucking admit when they've gotten over their head in animal care or when they need help with it.