PDA

View Full Version : WIP - HORSE-PUNCH! (It is a horse punching a thing.)



Ruggy
01-27-2014, 03:11 AM
So I'm working on a request for Rory! Yay! And I've been bugging him and Hewge about it all evening for feedback, got some good stuff, and now I'm offering it up for general dissection.

I am drawing many things I am not so good at drawing:
- Horse-guy!
- Action pose!
- Foreshortening!

If it looks rough like I've been drawing on it and erasing crap all evening, that's because I have:

http://i.imgur.com/VjncW11.jpg

This is only one version of head positioning: Same face, closed mouth (http://i.imgur.com/7tjH8Xs.jpg). Head, tilted down (http://i.imgur.com/HkZQHY7.jpg). Head, tilted down, looking at viewer instead of bag (http://i.imgur.com/B7Xjzjc.jpg).

And for fun, here's the first version (http://i.imgur.com/uuYVH35.jpg) of the sketch, and the second (http://i.imgur.com/4GHX36j.jpg). Because I've got 'em both uploaded to imgur anyway so why not.

This is pretty much entirely uncharted territory for me, so I appreciate any and all critique.


EDIT: Finished piece (https://www.weasyl.com/submission/446607/raleigh-horse-punch). Closing thread (since I see we can do that, nifty!) and thanking everyone for their input! :3

Sammacha
01-27-2014, 04:10 AM
O i think you have the footwork backwards.
While you can punch like this usually a heavy blow is dealt in such a manner that
For a right handed person...
You would jab withe the left so that foot would already be in front, to deal a heavier blow, you would step in hard on the left foot, twist your hips and your shoulder inwards and the punch hard with the right.
Perhaps this is why the stance looks a bit awkward.
I would also instinctively pull my left hand more towards my shoulder and add some more curve to the forearm on the right to match the angle of his fist.
Those were my first thoughts when looking at this picture.

So far the head and the upper body look really great to me. You'll have to twist it if you change the footing though.

Rory
01-27-2014, 06:46 AM
O i think you have the footwork backwards.
While you can punch like this usually a heavy blow is dealt in such a manner that
For a right handed person...
You would jab withe the left so that foot would already be in front, to deal a heavier blow, you would step in hard on the left foot, twist your hips and your shoulder inwards and the punch hard with the right.
Perhaps this is why the stance looks a bit awkward.
I would also instinctively pull my left hand more towards my shoulder and add some more curve to the forearm on the right to match the angle of his fist.
Those were my first thoughts when looking at this picture.

So far the head and the upper body look really great to me. You'll have to twist it if you change the footing though.

Depends. Generally the big power punches are indeed how you describe, but you're more than able to switch your legwork up to throw an opponent off balance, and to be able to get in quick jabs with your dominant hand. The risk with crossing is it can be slow enough to let your opponent glance the blow or dodge it, while being able to get a crushing hit in while you're extended and more vulnerable. I've seen it go either way in live fights and stuff. A good boxer will be shifty on his footwork. They want to keep their opponents guessing, and always be moving. The cross you describe is definitely a "money shot", though, with the most KO power along with uppercuts.

I'll make sure my horse buddy has a look later today, and see if he has anything to say. Otherwise you know I'm diggin' this!

piņardilla
01-27-2014, 08:57 AM
The way he's leaning into it looks like more than a jab, though. If he's throwing a power punch with his right, the stance should be reversed.

...I really don't have much to contribute, I just wanted an excuse to drop this .gif:

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/68662_o.gif

e: Note the footwork! :V

Ruggy
01-27-2014, 10:48 AM
Haha, I suppose technically the title should've been "horse jab", as that is indeed what I was drawing, but "Horse-punch" sounded so much snappier. P:

His footwork and position is about right for a jab, though indeed wrong for a reverse-punch (or at least that's what they call it at my dojo) buuut if it doesn't read right as it is, he can be re-positioned. Now that I think about it, I suppose he would have to be a really strong dude to move a bag with a jab, but I could either shrink the bag to make it look like one of those lighter teardrop-shaped ones, or just redraw him entirely. Thoughts?

piņardilla
01-27-2014, 12:53 PM
The moving bag does do a lot to imply power behind the punch, and I think its positioning also led me to read the horse-dude as swinging his body into it. I dragged another window over the bag and the pose did look more jab-like, so I think you could fix it just by re-doing the bag.

Sammacha
01-27-2014, 01:08 PM
Haha, I suppose technically the title should've been "horse jab", as that is indeed what I was drawing, but "Horse-punch" sounded so much snappier. P:

His footwork and position is about right for a jab, though indeed wrong for a reverse-punch (or at least that's what they call it at my dojo) buuut if it doesn't read right as it is, he can be re-positioned. Now that I think about it, I suppose he would have to be a really strong dude to move a bag with a jab, but I could either shrink the bag to make it look like one of those lighter teardrop-shaped ones, or just redraw him entirely. Thoughts?


I think changing the size of the bag and making his arm look less like hook shot would give the idea of a powerful jab.

The bag and the hand was giving me the impression that he was going for a powerful KO. Maybe re-do the bag and see how it looks?
It shouldn't take nearly as long go draw the bag over the body and legs lol

Wouldn't you pull your arm in tighter? Hmm I guess it depends on the fighting style. I will look later.


And yes Rory, anything can work in the ring with skill and a touch of luck. : P
The pose implied to me that he was doing his money-shot :P

QT Melon
01-27-2014, 01:49 PM
http://kaufmann-mercantile.com/images/muhammad-ali-punching-bag-0.jpg

See how the body is turned to use lot of power to put into the punch?

Rory
01-27-2014, 02:37 PM
Haha, I suppose technically the title should've been "horse jab", as that is indeed what I was drawing, but "Horse-punch" sounded so much snappier. P:

His footwork and position is about right for a jab, though indeed wrong for a reverse-punch (or at least that's what they call it at my dojo) buuut if it doesn't read right as it is, he can be re-positioned. Now that I think about it, I suppose he would have to be a really strong dude to move a bag with a jab, but I could either shrink the bag to make it look like one of those lighter teardrop-shaped ones, or just redraw him entirely. Thoughts?

Horse punch does indeed sound a lot snappier. :P

Well, making the bag smaller would probably save you a heck of a lot of work. Since this was just a request, I'm totally chill with that, because the rest looks hella solid as far as I'm concerned. Would be a shame to redraw it just to show a different punch to correlate with the current bag.

Sammacha
01-27-2014, 03:11 PM
Horse punch does indeed sound a lot snappier. :P

Well, making the bag smaller would probably save you a heck of a lot of work. Since this was just a request, I'm totally chill with that, because the rest looks hella solid as far as I'm concerned. Would be a shame to redraw it just to show a different punch to correlate with the current bag.

Hey its not really a shame, its a learning curve, one mistake made difficult to correct is one not forgotten.

Rory
01-27-2014, 03:50 PM
Hey its not really a shame, its a learning curve, one mistake made difficult to correct is one not forgotten.

Oh no no, I totally agree. I'd just feel really bad telling her to redraw the whole thing when it's a request, she's already been putting a lot of time into it and has been absolutely a pleasure to chat and work with. ^^; If in this case there's an easy fix by adjusting the bag, then I say go for it with the lessons learned.

Ruggy
01-27-2014, 04:13 PM
See how the body is turned to use lot of power to put into the punch?

Aaa that is a fabulous reference! Oh my gosh. Where did you happen to find this? My google-fu appears to be weak when it comes to finding specific kinds of images (boxing searches gave me spotty results, tae kwon do searches gave me nothing I needed) so if there's some repository of useful sporting images somewhere I would love to know. :3

Thank you for finding that!


Oh no no, I totally agree. I'd just feel really bad telling her to redraw the whole thing when it's a request, she's already been putting a lot of time into it and has been absolutely a pleasure to chat and work with. ^^; If in this case there's an easy fix by adjusting the bag, then I say go for it with the lessons learned.

D'aww. :3 You have been a pleasure to work with, yourself!

I'll do some noodling around this evening. If it looks like something that's going to require a lot of studies and time on my part to get that kind of shot down in a significantly better way, I may just make an adjustment to the bag and chalk it up to a learning experience. Or if a few tweaks improve it without a whole lot of time sunk into it, I'll go ahead and pursue those. We shall seeee.

And pfff, no worries re: my time. This is an excuse for me to push myself, really. And if I involve other people's characters, there's more of an incentive for me to finish. If it's just art for me, and I get frustrated and give up, I'm the only one who knows. So it's mutually beneficial! You get art, and I have an extra push to really do my best!

Sammacha
01-27-2014, 05:02 PM
Aaa that is a fabulous reference! Oh my gosh. Where did you happen to find this? My google-fu appears to be weak when it comes to finding specific kinds of images (boxing searches gave me spotty results, tae kwon do searches gave me nothing I needed) so if there's some repository of useful sporting images somewhere I would love to know. :3

Thank you for finding that!

Sometimes when I am looking for references I search for proper form and how to tutorials. Sometimes I can get a good idea of how to draw a certain pose by watching and listening to the basic instructions.

QT Melon
01-27-2014, 05:36 PM
I believe I used Punching bag hard and got an Ali shot. that guy was a powerhouse. I'm glad it helped out.

Ruggy
01-27-2014, 11:32 PM
Fiddle fiddle fiddle.

Is this any better? :>

http://i.imgur.com/xe5T2QD.jpg

xyloart
01-27-2014, 11:36 PM
Oh wow. I know nothing about boxing but even I can feel the power behind that!

Sammacha
01-28-2014, 12:00 AM
I can't see the new picture, is it just me? D:

Ruggy
01-28-2014, 12:03 AM
I can't see the new picture, is it just me? D:

Shows for me. :< Here's a direct link, if that helps: http://i.imgur.com/xe5T2QD.jpg

Rory
01-28-2014, 12:05 AM
Officially renaming him Raleigh Ali. :P See, now that's what I need to have as a forum icon. So many people have intimidating ones that are just asking for a bop on the nose!

I'm just kidding, anyone who has one of those. I will not punch you without permission. :P

Ruggy
01-28-2014, 12:26 AM
I really am liking the way this pose flows much better, though I think I will need to noodle around with the positioning of the bag, so it maybe has some more forward motion or something? Something about it seems off with the adjusted pose. Hmmm.

And seriously you guys, thank you so much for the input so far! It's been so helpful! <3

Sammacha
01-28-2014, 12:42 AM
Shows for me. :< Here's a direct link, if that helps: http://i.imgur.com/xe5T2QD.jpg

Thanks but...
no...
:C
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee178/sammacha/asdfdbfxc_zps7cb87cbc.jpg

I don't know why, I'm not enough of a computer person :(

Ruggy
01-28-2014, 12:52 AM
Thanks but...
no...
:C

I don't know why, I'm not enough of a computer person :(

That's so bizarre! I wonder if imgur is having problems. I've uploaded it to a different server (http://www.darktarnish.com/kitchendrawer/1-27-raleigh2.jpg), let me know if that's still not working.

AineCleine
01-28-2014, 01:10 AM
Looking better. The problem is the punching bag?? From where is this horse guy hitting the punching bag?? It looks like it received a front up punch from the back moving forward in a pendular motion. I could recommend moving the punching bag closer to the horse punchline and give it a little more perspective so it can accentuate the power (Making the horse a tad smaller or making the punching bag a tad bigger like going to the screen).

Sammacha
01-28-2014, 01:14 AM
That's so bizarre! I wonder if imgur is having problems. I've uploaded it to a different server (http://www.darktarnish.com/kitchendrawer/1-27-raleigh2.jpg), let me know if that's still not working.
I think it must be the server, because its resetting? Idk, I can see the new one, thanks, sorry for the trouble.

This may no be correct but I almost feel like the angle of the feet are slightly off, and they should be facing forward a bit more.
I would also throw in a little extra curve into the upper body.
Again I'm not sure of this, I would haev to fiddle with it a bit more, but I think something like this, I have drawn the feet too small though but this is the angle i was thinking of.
Maybe I'll have time to fiddle with it a bit tomorrow if you like. When it comes to foreshortening of arms, right towards you I also struggle... Kinda feel his arm could be straighter though.
sorry :/

I think the bag may need to be repositioned a bit closer to the horse as well
sorry for taking so long to reply, thanks for posting the link for me :)

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee178/sammacha/red%20line/horsepunch-gorgonops_zps73c604b5.jpg

Ruggy
01-28-2014, 01:32 AM
Yisss good points! Thank you guys so much. :3

I done fiddled around some more:

http://www.darktarnish.com/kitchendrawer/1-27-raleigh2a.jpg

Direct link, if needed (http://www.darktarnish.com/kitchendrawer/1-27-raleigh2a.jpg).

Sammacha
01-28-2014, 01:35 AM
I think that looks pretty good, but maybe still to shift the torso, i think that really made a good difference.

Ruggy
01-28-2014, 01:44 AM
I think that looks pretty good, but maybe still to shift the torso, i think that really made a good difference.

Oop, I think I missed those green lines in that area the first time. (My own dang fault for drawing in bright, obnoxious colors.)

Poomf!

http://www.darktarnish.com/kitchendrawer/1-27-raleigh2b.jpg

Direct link (http://www.darktarnish.com/kitchendrawer/1-27-raleigh2b.jpg)

Sammacha
01-28-2014, 01:53 AM
I think this looks quite a bit better then the original, and more of what you were looking for. I might have another look tomorrow if you dont mind, gotta go to bed.

Ruggy
01-28-2014, 01:55 AM
I think this looks quite a bit better then the original, and more of what you were looking for. I might have another look tomorrow if you dont mind, gotta go to bed.

I keep flipping between the most recent version and the newest one and marveling at the difference. Why haven't I been posting everything in here, omg. Thank you so much for the help! Sleep well!

Sammacha
01-28-2014, 02:05 AM
I keep flipping between the most recent version and the newest one and marveling at the difference. Why haven't I been posting everything in here, omg. Thank you so much for the help! Sleep well!

When i posted my war horse I was windering why nobody was using the crit forum, but now its very active :D
I think everyone hides in the sketchbook thing, but I dont like to ba there lol, too much going on lol.

Night!

*must press...shut... Down... Lol

QT Melon
01-28-2014, 11:31 AM
I think what would make it dynamic is the arm curving over from the swing. Right now it's showing the impact of the punch, and not the swing.

Sammacha
01-28-2014, 09:40 PM
I think what would make it dynamic is the arm curving over from the swing. Right now it's showing the impact of the punch, and not the swing.

QT gives great advice...

I think this was a great pose to challenge yourself with, i know I would find such a pose very challenging, well I do, actually, even just tryign to give my input lol.

Ruggy
01-30-2014, 10:54 PM
Awright. So, looking through a bunch of images of people punching heavybags, I couldn't find many where the hand comes out and around in front of the person after an impact. After miming punching the air, I found that that's prooobably because something like that isn't great form. (The hurt of a punch is mostly in the recoil, so the hand'll tend to go back, something I gave myself bruises trying to figure out. P: ) So I'm gonna kill my darlings, so they say, and cover up that hand I put so much work into, yarharhar.

Also tried to make his expression a little more intense, and de-fuzzied the bag somewhat:

http://www.darktarnish.com/kitchendrawer/1-30-raleigh-eyesatbag.jpg

(Here's a version with the eyes forward (http://www.darktarnish.com/kitchendrawer/1-30-raleigh-eyesforward.jpg), though I think he looks more intense with his eyes looking at what he's punching. Gets some whites of the eyes in there, makes 'im look pretty serious.)

Look a'ight? I think I'm going to start pushing this towards being a colored finished piece here pretty soon, just wanted eyes on it again to see if I missed anything important.

edit: and by 'pushing this towards being a finished piece' i do also mean 'i will be putting shorts on him' P:

Rory
01-30-2014, 11:14 PM
I'll let the other artists comment on any technical stuff (though yes, looking at the bag is better), but I love the progression from the first sketch. xD Raleigh just gets more and more pissed off, it's hilarious. Also, it's given me a great idea; I'm going to write a short story to accompany this piece, once it's done. I can imagine oh so many fun things that would get him pissed off that badly, it's almost an embarrassment of riches for story ideas.

Sammacha
01-31-2014, 12:43 AM
yup, murder your darlings, I know it so well...
however If you want to show the hand you could change to one of those round bouncing bags, but the heavy bag makes it look more impressive....

any progress is good progress....

Ruggy
01-31-2014, 04:01 AM
doop de doop, thought I'd share this cleaned up a bit:

http://www.darktarnish.com/kitchendrawer/1-30-raleighprog2.jpg

(Background is still ultra-nebulous because I'm laaaame.)

Sammacha
02-02-2014, 03:54 AM
Looks good, i like your line work

QT Melon
02-02-2014, 11:32 AM
Looks much better! I'd watch the mane and tail a bit so it doesn't look all the same especially since he's a horse. It looks like it's puffing out like a fox tail.