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Sammacha
01-21-2014, 03:49 AM
I am probably a new face to most people here so a Big hello to you all.
regardless of if I am new to you or not, you should know I am always looking for a way to improve my skills. Critique is one of the things I am known for.
As chinese new year is creeping up quickly I will be working on my new years animal. The horse. So why not get some critique on the last horse I have drawn and hope to improve the new one?

Also, just because this is one of my favorite pieces, I think it might be fun to post the vid to the time lapse of the drawing if you are interested http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqx66j5ZQes&feature=youtube_gdata

Thank so much for taking the time to have look at my thread, any and all constructive criticism is much always welcome
(Not looking for crit on how historically accurate this is, thanks)


https://www.weasyl.com/static/media/57/b3/02/57b3021dd610c209b8e880f488c9392d446c982d2fde08ea4b dcaf0043d5bf5d.jpg

If you would like to read the full description of this drawing please visit my DA: http://sammacha.deviantart.com/art/C...aiyu-299398596

Rory
01-21-2014, 04:05 AM
This is absolutely stunning, if you ask me. I looked for the typical pitfalls that usually can be improved upon, but this is just gorgeous. I'd really like to see you develop this piece further with a background and depth, as it comes off as just a tad flat. The piece definitely could benefit with some shadows underneath the horse, if you don't intend on doing a background. As of right now, it's full of vibrant colors and pleasing textures, which I always love.

Sammacha
01-21-2014, 04:16 AM
This is absolutely stunning, if you ask me. I looked for the typical pitfalls that usually can be improved upon, but this is just gorgeous. I'd really like to see you develop this piece further with a background and depth, as it comes off as just a tad flat. The piece definitely could benefit with some shadows underneath the horse, if you don't intend on doing a background. As of right now, it's full of vibrant colors and pleasing textures, which I always love.


Hi Rory, thanks so much for your input. I agree that it does seem a bit flat in spots and it would have benefited having a shadow placed underneath it, great idea. I will be sure to do this in the future
As of now I am not sure If my new image will have a background, and I Don't intend to add to this piece one to this piece in particular. Originally It was done for a contest on DA. You were supposed to draw a horse relating to your cultural background, that being said I opted not to have a background and to simply show the horse itself.
Anyways to me, I chose to finish it and finished it will stay. I would love to do a new war horse for Chinese New years, so rather then mess around with this one (otherwise it will never stop) I would love to learn from it.
I hope that my next one can be even more stunning :)

Rory
01-21-2014, 04:27 AM
Hi Rory, thanks so much for your input. I agree that it does seem a bit flat in spots and it would have benefited having a shadow placed underneath it, great idea. I will be sure to do this in the future
As of now I am not sure If my new image will have a background, and I Don't intend to add to this piece one to this piece in particular. Originally It was done for a contest on DA. You were supposed to draw a horse relating to your cultural background, that being said I opted not to have a background and to simply show the horse itself.
Anyways to me, I chose to finish it and finished it will stay. I would love to do a new war horse for Chinese New years, so rather then mess around with this one (otherwise it will never stop) I would love to learn from it.
I hope that my next one can be even more stunning :)

That makes perfect sense to leave this piece as is, and to improve upon the next. While it wasn't a groundbreaking suggestion on my part, I'm glad I could help out. Also, when I say background, I should mention that I mean more of creative, abstract ones that involve texture, gradients, or just a series of rough brush strokes, just to add a little extra depth and character to the piece. I'll let more expert artists weigh in here, but I'll keep an eye out for your future work. Good luck!

QT Melon
01-21-2014, 11:35 AM
The concept is really nice. I like what you put into the horse. Right now I can see that you need to develop a good light source to make this more interesting. There are some anatomy problems I am seeing, as well. Specially in the bulk of the legs.

If I may I could offer a paint over to express some of the ideas I am seeing in your illustration?

Sammacha
01-21-2014, 01:32 PM
That makes perfect sense to leave this piece as is, and to improve upon the next. While it wasn't a groundbreaking suggestion on my part, I'm glad I could help out. Also, when I say background, I should mention that I mean more of creative, abstract ones that involve texture, gradients, or just a series of rough brush strokes, just to add a little extra depth and character to the piece. I'll let more expert artists weigh in here, but I'll keep an eye out for your future work. Good luck!


Ah ok, your just talking about some kind of shapes and what not to add interest, I do this sometimes but sometimes I dont even think about it., good suggestion thanks.



The concept is really nice. I like what you put into the horse. Right now I can see that you need to develop a good light source to make this more interesting. There are some anatomy problems I am seeing, as well. Specially in the bulk of the legs.

If I may I could offer a paint over to express some of the ideas I am seeing in your illustration?

Ah yes, I am sure there are some lighting errors, and anatomy ones as well. I think horses still remain one of these "hard to draw" subjects so advice on that would be great.

If you feel like and have time to red line (or however you so choose) my picture I would appreciate it. Thanks.

macks
01-21-2014, 05:08 PM
looks good! horses are awful to draw haha

and I agree with the comments above--some simple things to suggest depth like adding a cast shadow or maybe having the legs in the background fade out slightly would give the illusion of the horse occupying space? But I think the main reason the horse doesn't stand out is because the red background is practically the same value as the subject so you could try experimenting with darkening or lightening the background

Also the multiple signatures are very distracting. all the added text is creating a lot of unnecessary clutter. Your drawing is the important thing and you want all the focus to be on the drawing, not on the space around it--it's important to be conscious about your negative space

Bark
01-21-2014, 06:50 PM
Do you have a particular breed you were referencing for this? I'd like to do a redline for my over all comment if you don't mind c:

RottenBite
01-21-2014, 06:53 PM
A quick tip that has helped me a lot on the past: The length of the head will (usually) match the length of the bottom neck line. The head on this piece looks a tad small, but its pretty good and I believe you should definitely be proud of it. :3

Sammacha
01-21-2014, 06:55 PM
looks good! horses are awful to draw haha

and I agree with the comments above--some simple things to suggest depth like adding a cast shadow or maybe having the legs in the background fade out slightly would give the illusion of the horse occupying space? But I think the main reason the horse doesn't stand out is because the red background is practically the same value as the subject so you could try experimenting with darkening or lightening the background

Also the multiple signatures are very distracting. all the added text is creating a lot of unnecessary clutter. Your drawing is the important thing and you want all the focus to be on the drawing, not on the space around it--it's important to be conscious about your negative space


Thanks for the comment. I will try to use a different red next time/ color value. A shadow as stated before would look good, but that will have to wait until next time

Also I'm a bit surprised you can see the watermark over the image, its hardly visible on my screen (actually have to look quite hard to see it on certain modes, but it is visible on other modes of my screen settings), so thanks for letting me know that's its highly visible to you as I was not aware of it. Nor had I really thought about it considering everyone's monitors are set up differently. Thank you



Do you have a particular breed you were referencing for this? I'd like to do a redline for my over all comment if you don't mind c:

Yes, when I looked into the history of Chinese war horses I found the breed they used was the Fernanda or better known as Ferghana horse breed. ( I do not know much about horse breeds, so I am assuming that this is the same horse, or a very close cousin. I didnt find much of a difference when I originally looked them up, however I didnt spend an eon doing research either).
If you are interested, I do have a better description written here on my DA if you are interested
http://sammacha.deviantart.com/art/Chinese-War-Horse-Daiyu-299398596
If you have the time to do a quick Red line drawing to show me something I can improve I would appreciate it, thank you



A quick tip that has helped me a lot on the past: The length of the head will (usually) match the length of the bottom neck line. The head on this piece looks a tad small, but its pretty good and I believe you should definitely be proud of it. :3

Thanks, I have never been told a tip like that, surely it will help in the future. I would not be surprised if its a bit small, I'm always tryign to make sure I dont make them too big ha ha

macks
01-21-2014, 10:47 PM
I actually didn't notice the watermark until you mentioned it, I was referring to the signature in the top left and the signature at the bottom right.

throw the chinese symbol + watermark into the mix and it's starting to look like an image covered in corporate sponsorships. It's good to sign your work but you probably don't need so many ?

Sammacha
01-21-2014, 10:56 PM
I actually didn't notice the watermark until you mentioned it, I was referring to the signature in the top left and the signature at the bottom right.

throw the Chinese symbol + watermark into the mix and it's starting to look like an image covered in corporate sponsorships. It's good to sign your work but you probably don't need so many ?

O I see what your talking about, I guess with the 3 of them taking up the corners it could seem that way. I've been putting my Logo onto the top corner of most of my work due to shows and art theft which I was experiencing in the past. Its very frustrating when someone takes your art and erases you signature only to paste theirs on top. Its just a habit that I picked up, but thanks for pointing it out. It usually doesn't bother me but sometimes I guess it can hinder my artwork.
With all honestly the logo really does help people find me, so it is somewhat an advertisement. Dont worry though, I don't sell any art with my logo still on it lol

kingcabbage
01-24-2014, 03:11 PM
http://refomatic.tumblr.com/post/74342060690/paintaloosa-all-right-heres-my-contribution

This is a pretty good ref that's been floating around on Tumblr lately.

My personal first impressions would be that the head is too small and delicate (particularly the nose) and the chest seems to stick out. Here's a redline: http://content.screencast.com/users/marji4x/folders/Jing/media/20decade-c5cb-41f1-8681-98b663accda9/redline-horse.png

Good work overall on anatomy! I think you just need a little more practice but you're definitely on the right road!

Sammacha
01-24-2014, 08:04 PM
http://refomatic.tumblr.com/post/74342060690/paintaloosa-all-right-heres-my-contribution

This is a pretty good ref that's been floating around on Tumblr lately.

My personal first impressions would be that the head is too small and delicate (particularly the nose) and the chest seems to stick out. Here's a redline: http://content.screencast.com/users/marji4x/folders/Jing/media/20decade-c5cb-41f1-8681-98b663accda9/redline-horse.png

Good work overall on anatomy! I think you just need a little more practice but you're definitely on the right road!

Hmm ok, if that was me who drew that I would feel like I made the head too big. Or the body too small, either way its just something I think I have to work on. Or maybe there is just something wrong with my mind lol.
Thank you for the tutorial its a really good one. I'll be reading it for sure.
Also thanks for taking the time to do a quick relined on my horses head, I will be taking it into consideration on my next horse.
much appreciated

Sammacha
01-26-2014, 02:34 PM
Anyone else still want to post their redline or recommendations before I start to color away at my new horse?
Chinese New years is this week! :O
Its early this year

And thank you for all the recommendations so far, its been helpful :)

QT Melon
01-26-2014, 02:43 PM
Anyone else still want to post their redline or recommendations before I start to color away at my new horse?
Chinese New years is this week! :O
Its early this year

And thank you for all the recommendations so far, its been helpful :)

I actually had a mockup on Sai because I felt the leg positioning awkward for the horse. It may be a good idea to study their gait. I think the major problem is that the horse's sternum is too far out. this also means the leg lifting in the front is too far back.

I am working on it right now so if you can give me a few minutes I should be posting it soon


Edit:

http://i.imgur.com/D4Cruxr.jpg

Here is what I came up with and realize I seriously need to buy a monitor calibrator that works on more than one monitor.

Sammacha
01-26-2014, 03:47 PM
I actually had a mockup on Sai because I felt the leg positioning awkward for the horse. It may be a good idea to study their gait. I think the major problem is that the horse's sternum is too far out. this also means the leg lifting in the front is too far back.

I am working on it right now so if you can give me a few minutes I should be posting it soon

Ah yes the chest being pushed out was also something that king cabbage recommended to me.
I hadn't thought of it being awkward, but that being said I don't have any horses to go and look at.i will be interested to see how you put them, as well you recommended for me to re-check my lighting source, which I dd. I can see some errors but of course not all of them. I am going to be much more careful on my new one.
Sometimes I think that working digitally takes away from certain things as I don't look at the picture as a whole as often as I look at just parts of it. thank you so much for you help.
I am hoping to study more of the horses anatomy and movement in the future, its been a slow on going thing for me.
everyone says "horses are hard to draw" and its true, but I think its a good motivation to learn :)

QT Melon
01-26-2014, 03:51 PM
I've been fortunate enough to have a sibling that owned a horse. They are very interesting animals. If I get a chance I will correct some issues but I think the shape is what I was looking for the most when doing the mockup.

Rinzy
01-26-2014, 03:53 PM
My biggest complaint would potentially be compositional things.

Your signature/stamp thing in the top right seems not only extraneous, but it's really close to the edge and causing some discomfort. The composition is also too symmetrical for my tastes, but that's my own personal taste. I, personally, would prefer it if the chinese character were pushed into the background and a slightly darker/lighter color than your color fill than that big bold black.

Sammacha
01-26-2014, 04:04 PM
I've been fortunate enough to have a sibling that owned a horse. They are very interesting animals. If I get a chance I will correct some issues but I think the shape is what I was looking for the most when doing the mockup.

Yes they are interesting, I've been able to be around them a few times when camping but nothing really near my home.


My biggest complaint would potentially be compositional things.

Your signature/stamp thing in the top right seems not only extraneous, but it's really close to the edge and causing some discomfort. The composition is also too symmetrical for my tastes, but that's my own personal taste. I, personally, would prefer it if the chinese character were pushed into the background and a slightly darker/lighter color than your color fill than that big bold black.

yeah for some reason I couldn't edit the original post... so I got stuck with that image, there's actually a better one submitted to my weasyl account regarding the stamp thingy. I figure its not too important at this point, overall I was more concerned with the composition of the horse, but I do realize it annoys some people.

I understand about the Chinese character, I felt it was more a traditional style to put black on red, but perhaps not the correct values of the colors.
Thanks for the input on this as my new picture will also include some Chinese characters, not sure about how I am going to do the colors on it yet though.
I am not very good at chinese calligraphy... of chinese characters in general lol.

I totally understand the symmetrical thing, not sure how I feel about it overall.


Edit



Edit:

http://i.imgur.com/D4Cruxr.jpg

Here is what I came up with and realize I seriously need to buy a monitor calibrator that works on more than one monitor.

Ah thank you very much, its quite different then mine regarding the shape.
I can see what you mean about his head and chest.
I think the leg does look a bit more natural in that state, and your anatomy is just beautiful.

I really appreciate this, thank you.

AineCleine
01-27-2014, 12:53 AM
Design wise it looks pretty good, the problem is that it looks quite chubby or too muscular so the anatomy had its problems. QT Melon actually is really good step in the right direction, the proportions are a lot better in there. You could work with those adjustments to finish this piece. Good luck with that.

Sammacha
01-27-2014, 01:14 AM
Design wise it looks pretty good, the problem is that it looks quite chubby or too muscular so the anatomy had its problems. QT Melon actually is really good step in the right direction, the proportions are a lot better in there. You could work with those adjustments to finish this piece. Good luck with that.

Yes, QT did a great job!
I was trying to make him look powerful since he was a battle horse, but maybe I did a bit too much. The next one should show some great improvement. Thank you for the input :)

Sammacha
01-31-2014, 09:36 PM
Hi guys,
Just wanted to bump the thread the thank you all for the help
My new one is here, https://www.weasyl.com/submission/435764/chinese-war-horse-daiyu-2
Your crit really helped me with both the proportions of the head and chest as well as the lighting.
I will be back for sure at another time, and I will lock this thread later tonight.

I will draw a background next time ...