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Bornes
01-10-2014, 05:47 AM
After the hating on skype thread, I decided to look into Skype alternatives. I found Jitsi, and am currently trying it out. It seems pretty cool so far, but I can't do much with it with no contacts to test it with.

So I was wondering, who else uses Jitsi (or has a SIP account) and wants to test this with me? Or we could just exchange contact info for a new IM furry group or something? We could also do VoIP but I personally am more interested in IM.

Jitsi is a program that supports an array of other messengers, including Google talk, Facebook, AIM, ICQ, Ippi, iptel, and MSN.
Get the Jitsi program here: http://jitsi.org
Get a SIP account (for VoIP) here: https://serweb.iptel.org/user/reg/index.php (you can leave phone blank)

So let's test this thing out? My contact info is qbornes@iptel.org (just put in "qbornes" for the iptel contacts). Or use my number (sort of like a friend code) : 323901

EDIT: So after fooling around with it for a while, Jitsi randomly put my status to away and won't let me change it to anything else. That combined with an avatar problem makes Jitsi pretty lame, I guess. Soooo back to Skype. =(
Unless anyone knows of another SIP messenger?

Runefox
01-10-2014, 09:26 AM
I can't do much with it with no contacts to test it with.

This is pretty much why people are being 'forced' to use Skype - Everyone else is using it and not any alternatives. Unless Jitsi can communicate with Skype contacts, it probably won't get used, unfortunately. Looks like a pretty snazzy XMPP client for what it's worth.

Krespo
01-10-2014, 11:04 AM
This is pretty much why people are being 'forced' to use Skype - Everyone else is using it and not any alternatives. Unless Jitsi can communicate with Skype contacts, it probably won't get used, unfortunately. Looks like a pretty snazzy XMPP client for what it's worth.

Such is the way of things. For a time Jitsi did have skype support, but it was dropped either because of legal or technical issues.

Ekiga is a pretty good client too, but again has the same problem of no one using it despite it clearly being better than Skype.

Tiger
01-10-2014, 11:07 AM
(thread title edited!)

I've never heard of Jitsi, but I rarely Skype nowadays. Might look into Jitsi anyway, though :o

Taw
01-10-2014, 01:28 PM
Another alternative that's still in it's early stages is http://tox.im - I'm curious to see how it develops.

Saiko
01-10-2014, 03:20 PM
Another alternative that's still in it's early stages is http://tox.im - I'm curious to see how it develops.
*watches* I'm curious about this too... it certainly looks good, and it's written in C/C++; so theoretically it'll be cross-platform. However, I imagine its privacy goals require it to not interface with skype. :c

Bornes
01-10-2014, 04:41 PM
This is pretty much why people are being 'forced' to use Skype - Everyone else is using it and not any alternatives. Unless Jitsi can communicate with Skype contacts, it probably won't get used, unfortunately. Looks like a pretty snazzy XMPP client for what it's worth.

And this is why I'm asking people to join it. You can get people to migrate if you ask. Don't try, nothing will happen. Everyone had to migrate to skype when it came out in its infancy-- Of course nobody will use Jitsi if everyone sits on their asses, preferring to complain about skype.

That's what this thread is for-- to get people to use Jitsi. Or at least get a SIP account and then use whatever other client they like that uses SIP.

Ouiji
01-16-2014, 11:10 AM
Do any of the above alternatives have Android apps?

Bornes
01-16-2014, 03:04 PM
Anything that uses SIP should be able to communicate. I don't have a smartphone so I don't know how good of an app this is, but a quick search found this: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.sipdroid.sipua
Not sure if it has IM, though. Looks like it's only VoIP.

edit: There is a Jitsi droid app, but it's in alpha stage and still unstable.

Brutus
01-18-2014, 12:47 PM
Got my own account now..... add brutus@jit.si if you wanna know more :P

iindigo
01-18-2014, 04:35 PM
*watches* I'm curious about this too... it certainly looks good, and it's written in C/C++; so theoretically it'll be cross-platform. However, I imagine its privacy goals require it to not interface with skype. :c
IMO it looks good enough to make people switch without a problem.

Bornes
01-19-2014, 12:02 AM
Got my own account now..... add brutus@jit.si if you wanna know more :P

I added you but I'm not sure we'll ever be online at the same time. Dx

edit: As far as Tox goes, it's probably going to sit in development hell.
http://www.tox-chat.com/2013/08/tox-developer-fed-up-quits.html

FatalSyndrome
01-22-2014, 03:00 AM
Sounds so rad, but yeah it's too bad most people don't use it!

irick
01-24-2014, 05:13 AM
Another alternative that's still in it's early stages is http://tox.im - I'm curious to see how it develops.
I got Venom to compile, been playing around with it: 72B9FB16D743AF2DFA160110D0FA43CFBB1F5A5AEFBC343CBD 984D2F895447797404B81A51B3 if anyone wants to chat it up.
I like their goals, but it seems like they've got a lot of challenges to meet if they are going to keep with their decentralized model. Key exchange is a big one, as is handling multiple devices. My first instinct is keyservers, but i'm not really sure how that works with a swarm model, especially as subkey generation and rejection needs to happen automagicly to the user for it to be very appealing. But damn, would it be so worth it to have a truly decentralized end to end encryption chat service with the kind of denyability they are attempting to build in.

koregg
02-15-2014, 10:28 PM
I'm always glad to see other people looking for Skype alternatives, but just asking people to move from Skype is pretty hard. When you consider their friends, and their friend's friends, etc. I'll probably still just download it and play with it, cause I have nothing else to do. Hope you gain some traction within your circle of friends!

Lupus
02-16-2014, 03:57 PM
I've found it a bit of a pain in the arse to get Tox compiled. (Messing with Cygwin) but it's running now, not entirely sure how to do anything with it yet.

It sounds pretty amazing, although that developer rant does seem pretty damning (depending upon the merit of their argument of course) but I tend to find successful projects are the ones where a dev doesn't rage-quit half way through.

irick
02-21-2014, 04:23 PM
I've found it a bit of a pain in the arse to get Tox compiled. (Messing with Cygwin) but it's running now, not entirely sure how to do anything with it yet.

It sounds pretty amazing, although that developer rant does seem pretty damning (depending upon the merit of their argument of course) but I tend to find successful projects are the ones where a dev doesn't rage-quit half way through.

It seems fairly active, their IRC is responsive to feedback and there have been a lot of code changes to Venom since I started playing with it.

Dreaming
02-22-2014, 08:22 AM
You can log into your Skype account with IM+, I think? At least, I was using IM+ to check out Skype back when I used Windows8 for three weeks, but it's a goddamn terrible app... it drops your connection whenever you tab out and literally spams your status message (you can change the settings and opt for an email alert for missed messages, but holy shit don't even- it's a nightmare)

ÓT: For some reason I thought it was possible to sign into Skype using Empathy but apparently it's not

irick
02-22-2014, 07:03 PM
You can log into your Skype account with IM+, I think? At least, I was using IM+ to check out Skype back when I used Windows8 for three weeks, but it's a goddamn terrible app... it drops your connection whenever you tab out and literally spams your status message (you can change the settings and opt for an email alert for missed messages, but holy shit don't even- it's a nightmare)

ÓT: For some reason I thought it was possible to sign into Skype using Empathy but apparently it's not

Mirosoft had announced that they are closing their API to access skype from third party clients. For some reason IM+ seems to be unaffected. This is strange, I wonder if it has to do with the fact that they have a windows phone app :P

Lupus
02-24-2014, 02:17 PM
Well that's nice, they offer pre-compiled alpha versions now, decided to install it on Ubuntu and give it a whirl.

If anybody wants a bit of a natter, I'm:
32430E94A7A760E7867296AFF202C98A2D2A17F846D846FDB7 445261A474803B711BA0A3FAE7

Not exactly easy to pronounce. XD

There's versions for Windows, Mac and Linux here:
http://wiki.tox.im/binaries

Lupus
02-24-2014, 05:55 PM
It seems fairly active, their IRC is responsive to feedback and there have been a lot of code changes to Venom since I started playing with it.

You know, actually, it's probably fine. I didn't really pay attention to that linked blogpost from http://www.tox-chat.com/ but I looked at it again and notice the dox dropping underneath and the footer. I feel like I've been duped but I'm glad because it means my preconceptions about Tox not having a future were completely unfounded. God damn scare mongeres...

Runefox
02-24-2014, 06:37 PM
32430E94A7A760E7867296AFF202C98A2D2A17F846D846FDB7 445261A474803B711BA0A3FAE7

Wow, it's like Nintendo Friend Codes taken to their logical conclusion! So easy to use.

Lupus
02-24-2014, 07:15 PM
Wow, it's like Nintendo Friend Codes taken to their logical conclusion! So easy to use.

But it works, in a decrentralised fashion, that's pretty awesome.

There is a certain requirement for using long hex codes as identifyiers in the underlying library. The point is to be decentralised, but it would be trivial to use aliases (like an email address, name, whatever...) in a user directory to map to the ID. Maybe something to be done to make it more accessible by the mainstream market, but personally I'd be happy having a simpe file or QR code to give to people and BAM! Friends! :D

irick
02-25-2014, 03:43 AM
Wow, it's like Nintendo Friend Codes taken to their logical conclusion! So easy to use.

In the future you won't have to worry so much. Basically what it is is a hash of your public key that is stored in the DHT so anyone can properly route your conversation.

A necessary evil of decentralization is that there is no easy way to resolve this into an arbitrary string. Right now it's very early development software, but it _works_ and is entirely peer to peer. They are looking into the idea of keeping basically a key server in some distributed fashion, if they decide to implement that it should allow mostly arbitrary strings to be used as identifiers.

Digitalpotato
02-25-2014, 12:16 PM
I'm always glad to see other people looking for Skype alternatives, but just asking people to move from Skype is pretty hard. When you consider their friends, and their friend's friends, etc. I'll probably still just download it and play with it, cause I have nothing else to do. Hope you gain some traction within your circle of friends!

That's the problem with skype alternatives - if I download it, nobody's going to swap over because their friends still use Skype.

Lupus
02-25-2014, 02:53 PM
In the future you won't have to worry so much. Basically what it is is a hash of your public key that is stored in the DHT so anyone can properly route your conversation.

A necessary evil of decentralization is that there is no easy way to resolve this into an arbitrary string. Right now it's very early development software, but it _works_ and is entirely peer to peer. They are looking into the idea of keeping basically a key server in some distributed fashion, if they decide to implement that it should allow mostly arbitrary strings to be used as identifiers.
It wouldn't be impossible to include such data in the DHT itself; it's just that having verifiable data is an issue. It's trivial to map a username like beepboop to a user's public key; the issue is that having an actual directory (like with a name, phone-number, email etc...) is tricky because it would be impossible without a central authority to confirm that it's valid (otherwise I could claim to be Barry Shitpeas with a phone number that isn't mine).


That's the problem with skype alternatives - if I download it, nobody's going to swap over because their friends still use Skype.
Dear Liza...

Really though, there haven't really been any strong viable contenders to take-on Skype; but Tox is different. Especially with the Prism revelations, there is now significant interest in privacy in software; basically there's now a major market for something like Tox.

For myself, when it matures I'll move over (if I can, I'll even help but I beg to suggest the project already has far more experienced developers) and I'll encourage others to do the same. I'm security conscious enough and I beg to suggest most people I speak to with any regularity are too. There'll be stick in the mud types who, despite Skype being shit, will stick to it and complain that others are moving over (where have we seen that before?).

You're right, it's a hurdle, but we can overcome it. Change takes time but so long as the end product is simple to use and genuinely an improvement over Skype, people will move.