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Rinzy
01-06-2014, 09:35 PM
Anybody actually make a hobby out of this? What languages are people trying to learn? What methods/services are you using to do it? Do you have any recommended resources for people trying to learn a second language?

Myself, I'm trying to learn French in my spare time, using an app called Duolingo that works similarly to Rosetta Stone. After I get a little more experience with it, I'm going to start switching my languages on my electronics over and find things like French news and music to read/listen to.

Rilvor
01-06-2014, 09:39 PM
I've been wanting to pick back up on learning French again, but it would have to wait until I can allot proper dedication to it. I'd also love to learn Gaelic.

Onnes
01-06-2014, 09:44 PM
If you game, then switching the language from English to your target language is a great way to improve written comprehension, particularly in games like RPGs that tend to be highly text driven. The actual game portion acts as natural encouragement. I think I know more about Guild Wars (1) in German than English.

Rinzy
01-06-2014, 09:47 PM
If you game, then switching the language from English to your target language is a great way to improve written comprehension, particularly in games like RPGs that tend to be highly text driven. The actual game portion acts as natural encouragement. I think I know more about Guild Wars (1) in German than English.

That's what I was thinking. Maybe take a game I'm familiar with (like Fallout) and switch it over to French so I still know what's going on and can grasp the stuff a little better.

piñardilla
01-06-2014, 09:50 PM
I've, uh, acquired Rosetta Stone, and I've learned a bit of Latin from it. Seems like I never can both have the time to do it and then remember to actually do it, though. I should pick it up again before school starts next week.

Onnes
01-06-2014, 09:55 PM
That's what I was thinking. Maybe take a game I'm familiar with (like Fallout) and switch it over to French so I still know what's going on and can grasp the stuff a little better.

It's something you only want to do after you've got down the basics of the language. Otherwise you'll spend too much time looking up every word and puzzling through grammar. No matter what, you're going to spend a lot of time with a dictionary in another window. For me, real sources were the definitely the fun part of things.

Rinzy
01-06-2014, 10:00 PM
It's something you only want to do after you've got down the basics of the language. Otherwise you'll spend too much time looking up every word and puzzling through grammar. No matter what, you're going to spend a lot of time with a dictionary in another window. For me, real sources were the definitely the fun part of things.Real sources?

Onnes
01-06-2014, 10:05 PM
Real sources?

Oh, as in typical media like news and games in the other language, as opposed to textbooks and other learning materials.

Rinzy
01-06-2014, 10:06 PM
Oh, as in typical media like news and games in the other language, as opposed to textbooks and other learning materials.

Oh yeah, immersion's going to be interesting o.o

BlissfulOblivion
01-07-2014, 12:46 AM
Omg I was wondering if I should make a language thread :U Yesss

I learned French in high school and am currently working on Japanese. I have a big long list of languages that I want to learn, but currently the most feasible is Spanish. I kind of know the grammar and some words but I'm really horrible at it :s

I have not actually found a "good" way to learn a language. Different things work for different people. A lot of what will work for you depends on how well you do with different parts of language. Personally, I'm rather exceptional and pronunciation and grammar compared to the general population but I suck. balls. at vocabulary. It's really difficult for me. This made it easier for me to learn languages in school where they teach it with a greatly analytical grammar-oriented method (although their methods are arguably terrible on the whole). Others have problems with grammar and do better with vocabulary.

My one suggestion based off of personal experience is that you're better off learning the basics from someone who learned the language as a second language because they are much more likely to be cognizant of how the language actually works from a grammatical standpoint instead of just having intuition of how it works because they grew up with it as most native speakers do. However, once the basics are reasonably well mastered, I would suggest practicing the language with natives or people who are considered very fluent, because then you can practice learning the language and synthesizing it as a natural process.

I haven't actually used Rosetta Stone but I've heard some about it from languagy blogs and papers and stuff and I've mostly heard that it's kinda shitty for anything beyond the most common languages :I But. I haven't personally tried it so I can't say.
Duolingo is good for starting out on a language (although I prefer to learn a little differently from the way it wanted to teach me so I never actually finished any language in it) but I know for a fact that the Italian audio is crap >:I Aside from that, I think it's a good place to start on a language. Don't use it if you've taken the language before though; it will require that you use very specific words for certain things that you may not have learned to mean exactly that. That's the downside to online learning stuff and the like. There's almost always multiple translations for a certain word or concept but if it's online or something it's pre-set and there's no gray area where it means the same thing but it's not exactly what it thinks it should be. Humans, however, can understand that gray area.

I'm also available for helping anyone with French or Japanese if they need it :3 I don't have a great Kanji vocabulary and my advanced vocabulary in French is kind of minimal but I'm excellent with grammar.

Rinzy
01-07-2014, 01:07 AM
Omg I was wondering if I should make a language thread :U Yesss

I learned French in high school and am currently working on Japanese. I have a big long list of languages that I want to learn, but currently the most feasible is Spanish. I kind of know the grammar and some words but I'm really horrible at it :s

I have not actually found a "good" way to learn a language. Different things work for different people. A lot of what will work for you depends on how well you do with different parts of language. Personally, I'm rather exceptional and pronunciation and grammar compared to the general population but I suck. balls. at vocabulary. It's really difficult for me. This made it easier for me to learn languages in school where they teach it with a greatly analytical grammar-oriented method (although their methods are arguably terrible on the whole). Others have problems with grammar and do better with vocabulary.

My one suggestion based off of personal experience is that you're better off learning the basics from someone who learned the language as a second language because they are much more likely to be cognizant of how the language actually works from a grammatical standpoint instead of just having intuition of how it works because they grew up with it as most native speakers do. However, once the basics are reasonably well mastered, I would suggest practicing the language with natives or people who are considered very fluent, because then you can practice learning the language and synthesizing it as a natural process.

I haven't actually used Rosetta Stone but I've heard some about it from languagy blogs and papers and stuff and I've mostly heard that it's kinda shitty for anything beyond the most common languages :I But. I haven't personally tried it so I can't say.
Duolingo is good for starting out on a language (although I prefer to learn a little differently from the way it wanted to teach me so I never actually finished any language in it) but I know for a fact that the Italian audio is crap >:I Aside from that, I think it's a good place to start on a language. Don't use it if you've taken the language before though; it will require that you use very specific words for certain things that you may not have learned to mean exactly that. That's the downside to online learning stuff and the like. There's almost always multiple translations for a certain word or concept but if it's online or something it's pre-set and there's no gray area where it means the same thing but it's not exactly what it thinks it should be. Humans, however, can understand that gray area.

I'm also available for helping anyone with French or Japanese if they need it :3 I don't have a great Kanji vocabulary and my advanced vocabulary in French is kind of minimal but I'm excellent with grammar.I took elementary French a couple of semesters ago, and so far it isn't terribly different. Duolingo recognizes multiple meanings and translations for phrases, which helps

Dreaming
01-07-2014, 01:15 AM
I've tried but my memory issues kinda make it difficult

BlissfulOblivion
01-07-2014, 01:55 AM
I took elementary French a couple of semesters ago, and so far it isn't terribly different. Duolingo recognizes multiple meanings and translations for phrases, which helps

Maybe at lower levels, but once you get to the higher levels it doesn't recognize nearly enough. Je t'assure. <: J'ai utilisé "il" comme "it" au lieu d'utiliser les pronoms et il a dit que c'était mauvais... :u

Rinzy
01-07-2014, 01:59 AM
Maybe at lower levels, but once you get to the higher levels it doesn't recognize nearly enough. Je t'assure. <: J'ai utilisé "il" comme "it" au lieu d'utiliser les pronoms et il a dit que c'était mauvais... :u

I only understood half of that XD either way, though, I intend to immerse myself a bit in the language too. My campus has a weekly French speaking circle and a good bit of French film to help get me really into it :3

BlissfulOblivion
01-07-2014, 02:02 AM
I only understood half of that XD either way, though, I intend to immerse myself a bit in the language too. My campus has a weekly French speaking circle and a good bit of French film to help get me really into it :3

Woooo! That's a great idea! <: Immersion is always best once you have the basics down. Speaking of French films: Have you seen Les Choristes?

Rinzy
01-07-2014, 02:23 AM
Unfortunately not. The only French films I've seen are City of Lost Children and Triplets of Belleville

BlissfulOblivion
01-07-2014, 02:28 AM
Unfortunately not. The only French films I've seen are City of Lost Children and Triplets of Belleville

You should watch it :3 It's really cute. And it has really pretty music (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK1Y8WsNwNk). It's great. <:

Sax
01-07-2014, 05:06 AM
I took spanish for 2 or 3 years in school, and was always mixing it up it with latin, so I dropped it. I'm trying to learn it again and it had been a surprise to realize I remembered way more than I would have thought, particularly when it comes to tenses. I think the fact it is so close to french (and latin) helped me remember stuff even 15 years later.
So far what has helped me the most has been to follow a few blogs on tumblr posting spanish quotes. A long text is intimidating and my brain shuts off, but a sentence or two is easier (and I keep google translate in a pinned tab). Plus, since it shows up on my dash, I have no effort to make, I don't need to remember to go visit a particular webpage or pick up a book. I also tried reading BBC Mundo, but most news were too boring for me.
I can read spanish and more or less understand, but it's the vocabulary I'm lacking.

I would like to learn german, and I did buy a method years ago, but never went really far. It's the nearby big country so I would really like to know their language.

I had learned english at school (for 8 years) but was very average. It's only when I got the internet that I was pretty much forced to make progress because all the communities that interested me were at like 90% in english. Learning slang and text-speak was tough >_<

BlissfulOblivion
01-07-2014, 05:11 AM
I took spanish for 2 or 3 years in school, and was always mixing it up it with latin, so I dropped it. I'm trying to learn it again and it had been a surprise to realize I remembered way more than I would have thought, particularly when it comes to tenses. I think the fact it is so close to french (and latin) helped me remember stuff even 15 years later.
So far what has helped me the most has been to follow a few blogs on tumblr posting spanish quotes. A long text is intimidating and my brain shuts off, but a sentence or two is easier (and I keep google translate in a pinned tab). Plus, since it shows up on my dash, I have no effort to make, I don't need to remember to go visit a particular webpage or pick up a book. I also tried reading BBC Mundo, but most news were too boring for me.
I can read spanish and more or less understand, but it's the vocabulary I'm lacking.

I would like to learn german, and I did buy a method years ago, but never went really far. It's the nearby big country so I would really like to know their language.

I had learned english at school (for 8 years) but was very average. It's only when I got the internet that I was pretty much forced to make progress because all the communities that interested me were at like 90% in english. Learning slang and text-speak was tough >_<

Ah, si. Es verdad. Español es muy similar a frances y latin. Y yo pienso que es facile <: (tambien yo no hablo bien porque yo no conozco personas quien lo hablarían conmigo :c ).

Slang is always hard for people to learn, no matter what language :s But it seems like you're doing very well! <:

J'essaye a pratiquer parler en francais par ecouter la radio francaise (RFI) mais je pense que c'est trop ennuyant :s Je ne sais pas exactement comment ameliorer maintenant car je n'ai d'amis qui parlent francais assez bien pour me parler :c

Ratte
01-07-2014, 12:05 PM
I took two years of Spanish in high school and I'm looking to pick it up again, maybe in the summer when I don't have 5 classes.

Otherwise, while I'm in school I'm trying to learn at least some Japanese. Anki is handy for learning kanji and general vocabulary and there are a lot of really great resources for it besides that. I have discovered that hiragana and katakana are actually pretty easy to learn and remember.

Frank LeRenard
01-07-2014, 12:07 PM
I took four years of French in college, and ended up with a major alongside my main one (physics), so I speak the language relatively well at this point (not like a natural francophone, but I can get by quite nicely and have conversations). Spent half a year overseas to earn 15 credit hours toward the degree and practice in a more immersive environment. In my experience, there's really nothing better for learning than just constantly having to use the language. Get the grammar and some basic vocabulary down in class, sure, but class will never solidify it for you in any meaningful way. You just have to keep doing it until it sticks.
French isn't too hard for an English speaker to learn, but I still have issues with comprehension when listening to the radio or watching French movies or whatever, just because it's one of those languages where the sounds are all supposed to bleed together. And it's funny, but because I learned French in school as part of a language and literature degree, I have a hell of a time speaking with young French people (i.e. people my age), but no trouble at all speaking with older French people. The youth vernacular is just not something I ever picked up in class. You don't learn l'argot by reading Flaubert.

Anyway, as far as hobbies go, I did pick up a book on standard Tibetan than I've been meaning to get to at some point. I started learning the alphabet, realized what a godawful mess it was, and stopped for a couple months. I really should get back to it before too long, though.

Rinzy
01-07-2014, 01:43 PM
I took spanish for 2 or 3 years in school, and was always mixing it up it with latin, so I dropped it. I'm trying to learn it again and it had been a surprise to realize I remembered way more than I would have thought, particularly when it comes to tenses. I think the fact it is so close to french (and latin) helped me remember stuff even 15 years later.
So far what has helped me the most has been to follow a few blogs on tumblr posting spanish quotes. A long text is intimidating and my brain shuts off, but a sentence or two is easier (and I keep google translate in a pinned tab). Plus, since it shows up on my dash, I have no effort to make, I don't need to remember to go visit a particular webpage or pick up a book. I also tried reading BBC Mundo, but most news were too boring for me.
I can read spanish and more or less understand, but it's the vocabulary I'm lacking.

I would like to learn german, and I did buy a method years ago, but never went really far. It's the nearby big country so I would really like to know their language.

I had learned english at school (for 8 years) but was very average. It's only when I got the internet that I was pretty much forced to make progress because all the communities that interested me were at like 90% in english. Learning slang and text-speak was tough >_<

Being a native English speaker, I can still vouch that a lot of slang and text-speak are terrible. I'm still not sure what the concrete definition of "ratchet" is when you're not talking about a tool. I'd hate to be learning english and encounter stuff like that

Hardrockangel
01-07-2014, 01:54 PM
I had French and German in high-school, though I've forgotten most of it already, which is kind of sad. :c
Though, I am currently studying Spanish-English (Spanish requiring the most work) and I am toying with the idea of getting started with German again, or learning Swedish.

Oh and if there's anyone here who's native tongue is Spanish, feel free to chat with me in Spanish.
My grammar and vocab are so horrid it's not even funny any more. :p

Rinzy
01-07-2014, 02:00 PM
I had French and German in high-school, though I've forgotten most of it already, which is kind of sad. :c
Though, I am currently studying Spanish-English (Spanish requiring the most work) and I am toying with the idea of getting started with German again, or learning Swedish.

Oh and if there's anyone here who's native tongue is Spanish, feel free to chat with me in Spanish.
My grammar and vocab are so horrid it's not even funny any more. :p

We should see if there are any people fluent in languages other people want to learn and see if we can get a group going where people can find someone to talk to in the language their learning o.o

Lavence
01-07-2014, 03:40 PM
I'm trying to learn Japanese and I'm following a few blogs on Tumblr dedicated to learning Japanese. I also have some resources bookmarked for learning vocabulary and kanji (including stroke order), and I have a book on grammar. Unfortunately, I don't really have a method for going about this. I just read, try to remember how grammar works and how the kanji is read, which is difficult because you need to know at least 3,000 kanji and each character can be read in two ways.

Sax
01-07-2014, 05:26 PM
J'essaye a pratiquer parler en francais par ecouter la radio francaise (RFI) mais je pense que c'est trop ennuyant :s Je ne sais pas exactement comment ameliorer maintenant car je n'ai d'amis qui parlent francais assez bien pour me parler :c

Si ça te dit (ou pour toutespersonne intéressée pour lire ou discuter de trucs furry en français), il y a le forum http://forum.francefurs.org/ mais comme pour beaucoup de forums, la grammaire et l'orthographe peuvent être très bizarres :D

(above is the url to the forum for french-speaking furs, people don't always write in a perfect way though)

BlissfulOblivion
01-07-2014, 05:52 PM
Si ça te dit (ou pour toutespersonne intéressée pour lire ou discuter de trucs furry en français), il y a le forum http://forum.francefurs.org/ mais comme pour beaucoup de forums, la grammaire et l'orthographe peuvent être très bizarres :D

Ah, c'est fantastique ! Je le verai quand je ne suis pas occupe ;P Merci beaucoup <: Je pense que ca va etre tres fascinant.
Et ca va, les forums anglais sont meme au sujet de la grammaire ;P


Otherwise, while I'm in school I'm trying to learn at least some Japanese. Anki is handy for learning kanji and general vocabulary and there are a lot of really great resources for it besides that. I have discovered that hiragana and katakana are actually pretty easy to learn and remember.

I'm trying to learn Japanese and I'm following a few blogs on Tumblr dedicated to learning Japanese. I also have some resources bookmarked for learning vocabulary and kanji (including stroke order), and I have a book on grammar. Unfortunately, I don't really have a method for going about this. I just read, try to remember how grammar works and how the kanji is read, which is difficult because you need to know at least 3,000 kanji and each character can be read in two ways.

Yes! Japanese learners! Cool! <: I can help you guys out with stuff. I can understand almost everything I hear and I can converse fairly well, I just don't have a huge vocabulary.
Hiragana and katakana are really pretty simple if you practice it a little. Just try writing the words you know. It will help a lot c: Kanji, on the other hand... //shudders; I know probably somewhere around 200ish but I can't read almost anything I come across... And they're so hard to remember! :C
Japanese grammar is incredibly complicated to a native English speaker because most of the tenses, moods, and constructions they use don't parallel English at all. With the romance languages, you have almost all the same tenses, just different conjugations. In Japanese, you don't say "I should/need to do something." The literal translation of the equivalent phrase is "It will not become if I do not do something."
I commend you all for trying to learn Japanese on your own, though! :U And I'm glad to help if you want <:

RainWizard
01-07-2014, 07:03 PM
I would LOVE to leern to speak Welsh fluently, for 2 reasons

1: nobody else knows what you're saying, so you can be as offensive as you like (Seriously, nobody I know speaks it)

2: Verrrryyy helpful in getting a teaching job 'round these here parts

BlissfulOblivion
01-07-2014, 07:32 PM
nobody else knows what you're saying, so you can be as offensive as you like (Seriously, nobody I know speaks it)

Sounds a lot like Gaelic. And Navajo. And. Y'know. About 90% of the worlds languages :v

Sorry. I find it sad that so many languages are dying :c But good for you for trying to learn Welsh! <:

Socks the Fox
01-07-2014, 07:42 PM
I'm thinking of picking up either Lua or maybe C#. Oh wait, wrong kind of language...

I really aught to de-rust my Spanish, given that I live in central Texas.

Ratte
01-07-2014, 08:23 PM
Yes! Japanese learners! Cool! <: I can help you guys out with stuff. I can understand almost everything I hear and I can converse fairly well, I just don't have a huge vocabulary.
Hiragana and katakana are really pretty simple if you practice it a little. Just try writing the words you know. It will help a lot c: Kanji, on the other hand... //shudders; I know probably somewhere around 200ish but I can't read almost anything I come across... And they're so hard to remember! :C
Japanese grammar is incredibly complicated to a native English speaker because most of the tenses, moods, and constructions they use don't parallel English at all. With the romance languages, you have almost all the same tenses, just different conjugations. In Japanese, you don't say "I should/need to do something." The literal translation of the equivalent phrase is "It will not become if I do not do something."
I commend you all for trying to learn Japanese on your own, though! :U And I'm glad to help if you want <:

That might help me out quite a bit. While I would like to take formal classes for it or something, my school only offers the basic Euro language courses (German, French, Spanish, Latin I guess?) which isn't very helpful for me, personally. :p

I'd like to know sort of where to start after learning the syllabary for the two, aside from learning kanji. I did find a download for a textbook that I hear a lot of people really praising, but I have to admit that without some kind of structured guidance system (classes lol) I am a little unsure of what to do.

BlissfulOblivion
01-07-2014, 08:39 PM
That might help me out quite a bit. While I would like to take formal classes for it or something, my school only offers the basic Euro language courses (German, French, Spanish, Latin I guess?) which isn't very helpful for me, personally. :p

I'd like to know sort of where to start after learning the syllabary for the two, aside from learning kanji. I did find a download for a textbook that I hear a lot of people really praising, but I have to admit that without some kind of structured guidance system (classes lol) I am a little unsure of what to do.

Fuck no. Don't start on kanji for a while. It will do you no good right now. I only started kanji in my second or third year of Japanese and my teacher was like "are you suuuuure you wanna do that?"
What textbook?
I could try helping you out (via pm or something?) if I have spare time :u I'd be glad to do that.
First off; learn the basic syntax. It's not anything like English. Learn what particles are and what they do and learn a few of the basic ones like は、を、が、and に (wa, [w]o, ga, and ni). Also, introductions and formalities are always a good start to a language. They're simple, they help with adjusting to how the language looks/sounds, and even though you don't actually know exactly what they are and stuff they give you at least a little sense of encouragement. Then go onto basic vocabulary and grammar structures (basic conjugations in the case of Japanese).

Sutekh_the_Steak
01-07-2014, 08:43 PM
I'm doing French at school right now as one of my subjects, and I'm thinking of using that Duolingo site to help me with it. I'm in the top class (somehow) but I could definitely do better.

Rinzy
01-07-2014, 09:54 PM
I'm doing French at school right now as one of my subjects, and I'm thinking of using that Duolingo site to help me with it. I'm in the top class (somehow) but I could definitely do better.

I'm fairly certain that I only passed elementary french 1 with an A because the teacher had the hots for me. The tip off was his constant wearing of pink/lavender shirts...

Fay V
01-07-2014, 10:04 PM
I'm weird and learned Old English. I am shit at it and need to pick it up again, but a while ago I got to the point I could read it without my dictionary (except for the word for nerves)

BlissfulOblivion
01-07-2014, 10:38 PM
I'm weird and learned Old English. I am shit at it and need to pick it up again, but a while ago I got to the point I could read it without my dictionary (except for the word for nerves)

Oooooh, real old english? Like, not the "Ye Olde English" type, but like Ænglisc????? That's awesome!! :D Where'd you learn that??

Fay V
01-07-2014, 11:01 PM
Oooooh, real old english? Like, not the "Ye Olde English" type, but like Ænglisc????? That's awesome!! :D Where'd you learn that??
I had a professor that spoke it fluently and taught us in a study group. The rest was just books and books and books.

But yes, not early modern (which is Shakespeare)

My dictionary is at my office so I can't do anything fun atm, I had little comics I made while I studied though.
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s25/FaileV/as3.jpg

BlissfulOblivion
01-07-2014, 11:15 PM
I had a professor that spoke it fluently and taught us in a study group. The rest was just books and books and books.

But yes, not early modern (which is Shakespeare)

My dictionary is at my office so I can't do anything fun atm, I had little comics I made while I studied though.
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s25/FaileV/as3.jpg

Omg that's awesome! :D I'm jealous. Hahaha. P:

Aww that's cute <: I wish I understood it, though ;P Hehe

Fay V
01-07-2014, 11:29 PM
Omg that's awesome! :D I'm jealous. Hahaha. P:

Aww that's cute <: I wish I understood it, though ;P Hehe

I shall prepare (literally: very geared) for this "exam" (literally: mind/spirit/heart battle. it's a made up word to fit modern context)

So "I'm gonna super prepare for this exam.

The bottom part is. literally: "my mind gear, my joy"

BlissfulOblivion
01-07-2014, 11:33 PM
I shall prepare (literally: very geared) for this "exam" (literally: mind/spirit/heart battle. it's a made up word to fit modern context)

So "I'm gonna super prepare for this exam.

The bottom part is. literally: "my mind gear, my joy"

Yes <: I like it!
I always wondered what revived languages did for new words... I'm especially curious about what Latin does. I haven't checked it out :u
Cool, though! <:

Ratte
01-08-2014, 11:28 AM
Fuck no. Don't start on kanji for a while. It will do you no good right now. I only started kanji in my second or third year of Japanese and my teacher was like "are you suuuuure you wanna do that?"
What textbook?
I could try helping you out (via pm or something?) if I have spare time :u I'd be glad to do that.
First off; learn the basic syntax. It's not anything like English. Learn what particles are and what they do and learn a few of the basic ones like は、を、が、and に (wa, [w]o, ga, and ni). Also, introductions and formalities are always a good start to a language. They're simple, they help with adjusting to how the language looks/sounds, and even though you don't actually know exactly what they are and stuff they give you at least a little sense of encouragement. Then go onto basic vocabulary and grammar structures (basic conjugations in the case of Japanese).

Would I be able to understand most of something written without understanding kanji for a while?
I've somewhat learned some particles (only two of those, though) with some kind of idea on where they go and how they're used. I have some very basic (and I do mean very, very basic) idea on some grammar for a couple short sentences, but that's it. I know a couple more formal sayings and when to use them, but still, only a couple.
I know a little vocabulary from something I had originally signed up for as a sort of online class, but eventually pulled out of it because A: it didn't seem to help me with vocabulary, and B: I couldn't afford it anymore.

The textbook I found was Genki. I hear a lot of people saying that it's a great way to start, but haven't quite had the time to look at it yet.

I can take this spiel to PM's or IM's if you would like. :3

SirCoffeecup
01-08-2014, 11:46 AM
I'm on courses for Japanese.
It is so vastly different from Finnish or English so it's a neat challenge.
I only know the basics of it now, but the spring season should start soon.

Rinzy
01-08-2014, 02:19 PM
Would I be able to understand most of something written without understanding kanji for a while?
I've somewhat learned some particles (only two of those, though) with some kind of idea on where they go and how they're used. I have some very basic (and I do mean very, very basic) idea on some grammar for a couple short sentences, but that's it. I know a couple more formal sayings and when to use them, but still, only a couple.
I know a little vocabulary from something I had originally signed up for as a sort of online class, but eventually pulled out of it because A: it didn't seem to help me with vocabulary, and B: I couldn't afford it anymore.

The textbook I found was Genki. I hear a lot of people saying that it's a great way to start, but haven't quite had the time to look at it yet.

I can take this spiel to PM's or IM's if you would like. :3
When you read Japanese stuff, a lot of them have hirigana above the kanji. A lot of Japanese adults don't even know most of the kanji

Saiko
01-08-2014, 02:21 PM
I have to pick a language for my gen-ed requirement... but I'm torn between German and Chinese. The former is more intriguing to me, but the latter is much more marketable. :s

Rinzy
01-08-2014, 08:28 PM
I have to pick a language for my gen-ed requirement... but I'm torn between German and Chinese. The former is more intriguing to me, but the latter is much more marketable. :s
I'm thinking of getting a second degree and I'm going to have to do foreign language classes to get it. Probably gonna stick with French because I enjoy it :P

BlissfulOblivion
01-08-2014, 09:30 PM
Would I be able to understand most of something written without understanding kanji for a while?
I've somewhat learned some particles (only two of those, though) with some kind of idea on where they go and how they're used. I have some very basic (and I do mean very, very basic) idea on some grammar for a couple short sentences, but that's it. I know a couple more formal sayings and when to use them, but still, only a couple.
I know a little vocabulary from something I had originally signed up for as a sort of online class, but eventually pulled out of it because A: it didn't seem to help me with vocabulary, and B: I couldn't afford it anymore.

The textbook I found was Genki. I hear a lot of people saying that it's a great way to start, but haven't quite had the time to look at it yet.

I can take this spiel to PM's or IM's if you would like. :3

Nope. Very little is written without kanji. Most of what is is written for children. When it's in younger adult/teen books/material where they're still learning a lot of kanji, it takes the form of furigana where they write the hiragana above/next to the kanji (also referenced in below quote). But that is rare among "real world" material.
Particles are really interesting <: They kind of remind me of inflectional cases like in Latin, German, and Englisc, but they're still different. They're like articles and prepositions, where they do mean something but they don't actually reference to anything you find in life. Even abstract stuff like thoughts or ideas.
Knowing any grammar is an excellent start! <: And you really only need to know a few particles at the beginning.
If you want to learn a bunch of pointless vocabulary you'll rarely use, watch anime :V For real vocabulary, I suggest flaschards. Or your textbook. That works too.

I used Genki a little while ago. I started on Japanese for Busy People so when I switched to Genki I did it on the second(?) book instead of the first. I'm not sure how good the first is.

I could definitely help you in that way! :3 I'd be glad to!


When you read Japanese stuff, a lot of them have hirigana above the kanji. A lot of Japanese adults don't even know most of the kanji

(pedantic, sorry: the proper name for that is furigana)
That's reeeeeeeeeeally rare once you get into the adult world of stuff. I have yet to see it in anything outside of stuff for younger adults or children.
Bottom line is: there's about 1,000 kanji you need to be able to read a newspaper and about 2,000 kanji you need to know to be considered "fluent" with the writing.


I have to pick a language for my gen-ed requirement... but I'm torn between German and Chinese. The former is more intriguing to me, but the latter is much more marketable. :s

Warning: Chinese is infinitely harder than German. German is harder grammatically (from what I know) but Chinese has very different sounds, and then tones. Most of the people I know don't even realize they're saying the wrong thing because they just ignore the tones altogether. Which is something you can't do. You might call your aunt a bitch. (literally; the words are the same except for the tones in Cantonese)
But Chinese is definitely very cool! And much more similar to English syntactically (and grammatically much simpler than English). Definitely try it if you're up to the challenge :3

Aakosir
01-08-2014, 10:10 PM
If I could learn every language there was I'd go for it, but sadly I can't even afford to learn a second...

Ratte
01-08-2014, 10:41 PM
When you read Japanese stuff, a lot of them have hirigana above the kanji. A lot of Japanese adults don't even know most of the kanji

I've heard that a lot, actually, but didn't really know about the validity. I thought they learned Jouyou Kanji while in school there, though?

EDIT: Nevermind, I didn't see the newer replies until now. The site doesn't tell me what the actual new replies are half the time. ]:


I used Genki a little while ago. I started on Japanese for Busy People so when I switched to Genki I did it on the second(?) book instead of the first. I'm not sure how good the first is.

I could definitely help you in that way! :3 I'd be glad to!

How's Japanese for Busy People? That might be handy for this semester...I have five classes. ]:

Feel free to PM me or add me on an IM service. If nothing else it'll give me a reason to use IM services again, lol.

BlissfulOblivion
01-08-2014, 10:53 PM
How's Japanese for Busy People? That might be handy for this semester...I have five classes. ]:

Feel free to PM me or add me on an IM service. If nothing else it'll give me a reason to use IM services again, lol.

Idunno. I think they're all pretty good. I learned much more from my teacher, though.

Same :u I don't use IM things at all any more... But I can do that <:

Willow
01-08-2014, 11:03 PM
I've been learning German through school for the past four years and might even make it my minor since I'm already taking 200 level classes for it.

At some point in time I think I might pick up either Japanese or Swedish though just for the hell of it. And aside from just using websites, are there any other good ways to help learn a language on your own?


I have to pick a language for my gen-ed requirement... but I'm torn between German and Chinese. The former is more intriguing to me, but the latter is much more marketable. :s
I'm biased but I'd say choose German.

BlissfulOblivion
01-08-2014, 11:32 PM
At some point in time I think I might pick up either Japanese or Swedish though just for the hell of it. And aside from just using websites, are there any other good ways to help learn a language on your own?

Books. Even if you can't buy them you can find plenty in a library. I know, I know, what's a library? :V
Personally, I feel that books can only teach you so much and pronunciation is a huge problem in learning a language if you aren't actually speaking it, so I would suggest that it could possible be helpful to learn a tiny bit about phonetics, as well as how to read the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet). It's not perfect (and you might not get the accent perfect) but it's definitely a good start on proper pronunciation (without sounding like a total american).

Willow
01-09-2014, 12:55 AM
Books. Even if you can't buy them you can find plenty in a library. I know, I know, what's a library? :V
Personally, I feel that books can only teach you so much and pronunciation is a huge problem in learning a language if you aren't actually speaking it, so I would suggest that it could possible be helpful to learn a tiny bit about phonetics, as well as how to read the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet). It's not perfect (and you might not get the accent perfect) but it's definitely a good start on proper pronunciation (without sounding like a total american).
I think I worded that a bit poorly. Although books is a good answer.

I meant more along the lines of things to help aid in learning the language. Like actually retaining the stuff you just learned.
I've made flashcards before and they kind of just don't work for me. Not to mention I find them kind of tedious to make and use. :I

BlissfulOblivion
01-09-2014, 01:16 AM
I think I worded that a bit poorly. Although books is a good answer.

I meant more along the lines of things to help aid in learning the language. Like actually retaining the stuff you just learned.
I've made flashcards before and they kind of just don't work for me. Not to mention I find them kind of tedious to make and use. :I

Use the language. Speak it to your cat. :I Or dog. Or goldfish. Or whatever you have. Talk to yourself. Try writing a little diary using the language. If you draw, try drawing comics in that language. Write short stories. Try translating things in your mind when you're reading things. Try reading simple things (Harry Potter is available in like 60 languages or something, that's a good start). That sort of thing. That's really the best way to practice it. Try sticking labels on things around your house/apartment. :u

Willow
01-09-2014, 01:34 AM
Use the language. Speak it to your cat. :I Or dog. Or goldfish. Or whatever you have. Talk to yourself. Try writing a little diary using the language. If you draw, try drawing comics in that language. Write short stories. Try translating things in your mind when you're reading things. Try reading simple things (Harry Potter is available in like 60 languages or something, that's a good start). That sort of thing. That's really the best way to practice it. Try sticking labels on things around your house/apartment. :u
Those are all pretty good suggestions. I never would have thought to do the comic thing at least.

And maybe I could try finding some children's books for whatever I decide to actually learn after German because those tend to be pretty easy reads.

BlissfulOblivion
01-09-2014, 01:40 AM
Those are all pretty good suggestions. I never would have thought to do the comic thing at least.

And maybe I could try finding some children's books for whatever I decide to actually learn after German because those tend to be pretty easy reads.

Yeah! I've been drawing little comics in french for the hell of it and because it helps <: But honestly, using a language is the absolute best way to practice it, even if you're just muttering to yourself or drawing stupid comics.

Definitely do that. Reading is good. But fair warning, you'll probably be using a dictionary a lot. Don't fret, though. Try reading it multiple times.

Willow
01-09-2014, 01:50 AM
Yeah! I've been drawing little comics in french for the hell of it and because it helps <: But honestly, using a language is the absolute best way to practice it, even if you're just muttering to yourself or drawing stupid comics.

Definitely do that. Reading is good. But fair warning, you'll probably be using a dictionary a lot. Don't fret, though. Try reading it multiple times.
I've no problem with referencing a dictionary. I actually keep one on hand for German whenever I do homework just in case I forget a word or it's not in my textbook.

Really comes in handy especially when I forget really basic things

BlissfulOblivion
01-09-2014, 01:52 AM
I've no problem with referencing a dictionary. I actually keep one on hand for German whenever I do homework just in case I forget a word or it's not in my textbook.

Really comes in handy especially when I forget really basic things

Yes! I don't have any dictionaries :c I mostly use ones online because I spend wayyyyy to much time in front of this lovely screen :V I've fallen in love with him. His name is Florence. And we are very happy.
but it's a little hard to find good ones; I have found 0 decent ones for Japanese. I know a good one for French, but I don't have a hardcopy of any multilingual dictionaries. I should do that :u

Willow
01-09-2014, 02:03 AM
Yes! I don't have any dictionaries :c I mostly use ones online because I spend wayyyyy to much time in front of this lovely screen :V I've fallen in love with him. His name is Florence. And we are very happy.
but it's a little hard to find good ones; I have found 0 decent ones for Japanese. I know a good one for French, but I don't have a hardcopy of any multilingual dictionaries. I should do that :u
I have a Japanese dictionary by Berlitz and I think it's pretty good as far as content goes. It gives the actual Kanji for the word in addition to the Romanized version. Granted I also bought this several years ago too :B

BlissfulOblivion
01-09-2014, 02:06 AM
I have a Japanese dictionary by Berlitz and I think it's pretty good as far as content goes. It gives the actual Kanji for the word in addition to the Romanized version. Granted I also bought this several years ago too :B

Yeah. It was in my plans to put a japanese dictionary on my christmas list but I thought about it too late... :s Ohwell. I'll get one some day~

Ouiji
01-09-2014, 02:09 PM
Has anyone else heard of the blog 'fluent in 3 months' there's some good advice there. Also I noticed some posters here use duolingo, I like that site as well.

Krespo
01-09-2014, 03:20 PM
Has anyone else heard of the blog 'fluent in 3 months' there's some good advice there. Also I noticed some posters here use duolingo, I like that site as well.

I got a hold of the Language Hacking Guide through ...means, once. I like the idea of learning key phrases you'll actually use, but if you want to pick up Tolstoy in the original Russian I doubt it'll be much use. Still, anything that gets you learning is good and the blog is full of useful information.

Does anyone know if the Spanish on duolingo is American or European? I'm looking for American.

Toshabi
01-09-2014, 03:39 PM
Fuck no. Don't start on kanji for a while. It will do you no good right now. I only started kanji in my second or third year of Japanese and my teacher was like "are you suuuuure you wanna do that?"
What textbook?
I could try helping you out (via pm or something?) if I have spare time :u I'd be glad to do that.
First off; learn the basic syntax. It's not anything like English. Learn what particles are and what they do and learn a few of the basic ones like は、を、が、and に (wa, [w]o, ga, and ni). Also, introductions and formalities are always a good start to a language. They're simple, they help with adjusting to how the language looks/sounds, and even though you don't actually know exactly what they are and stuff they give you at least a little sense of encouragement. Then go onto basic vocabulary and grammar structures (basic conjugations in the case of Japanese).
My professors actually adviced the contrary. Learning one character of kanji a day is something that was encouraged, especially of you're already trying to learn the basics, for it strengthens your vocabulary and builds on knowledge that will take you probably 3 years to learn.


The basics of Japanese are a must, but that's something that's quickly learned, in regards to katakana/hiragana pronunciations.

piñardilla
01-09-2014, 03:51 PM
Trying out Duolingo. It doesn't have Latin, but I can develop my extremely rudimentary Spanish at least.

FishNChips
01-09-2014, 04:17 PM
I have no real practical reason to learn either language, but I'd like to learn some German and Russian.

There's a lot of documents related to the fighting on the eastern front of WW2 that aren't in English, so I'd like to read them. That and the military bits and bobs before, during, and after the war.

BlissfulOblivion
01-09-2014, 05:37 PM
Anyone who hasn't yet should definitely check out duolingo :u It's quite nice for the basics. In some ways. It's paced a little slow in my opinion, but that's just me. It does a pretty good job over all. Sorta. Best thing that I've seen.

I haven't checked out three month fluency yet but I'm highly skeptical of anything that claims quick fluency :I I'll check it out, though.


Does anyone know if the Spanish on duolingo is American or European? I'm looking for American.

I'm pretty sure it's Mexican Spanish. The site is in American English, too, so it's more likely to be Mexican.


My professors actually adviced the contrary. Learning one character of kanji a day is something that was encouraged, especially of you're already trying to learn the basics, for it strengthens your vocabulary and builds on knowledge that will take you probably 3 years to learn.


The basics of Japanese are a must, but that's something that's quickly learned, in regards to katakana/hiragana pronunciations.

I disagree. You really need to build up some vocabulary before starting with kanji. And kanji is really hard. There are multiple readings and chances are you either don't know the words or won't have use for the words quite yet. Plus it's a lot to memorize when you're still dealing with the basics. But; people do learn differently so starting kanji immediately might work for some people. I simply don't recommend it.
And the basics aren't necessarily all that simple to everyone. I mean, there are 90(? about 45 of each thing?) kana characters plus their accents and the rules of that. The pronunciation is fairly simple (with the exception of R), but then the syntax is a bitch at first. :s

---UPDATE---
just kidding the 3 month fluency site is not terrible. His tips and tricks are definitely good in certain situations (and he does explain all of this), but they aren't particularly great for learning the language somewhere that you're not actually going to use it. And (he also says this) if you're looking to learn a language for fun or enjoyment or long-term practicality instead of immediate use, I would recommend taking your time. Learning it in a rush isn't going to make you any better at it and if you learn the grammar it will actually help you in lots of ways. Grammar is very important if you're not using the language constantly in context.

Carnau
01-14-2014, 10:05 PM
Korean and German are highest on my list. I wouldn't mind learning Korean for my family's sake, and I've wanted to speak German since I was 16. I wouldn't pass up the opportunity to master the art of sign language as well. That would be badass.

Frank LeRenard
01-15-2014, 10:02 AM
Korean and German are highest on my list. I wouldn't mind learning Korean for my family's sake, and I've wanted to speak German since I was 16. I wouldn't pass up the opportunity to master the art of sign language as well. That would be badass.

I heard somewhere that the sense of time in Korean is rather different and somewhat unusual. I don't know any specifics beyond that, but I know people always bring it up in the context of "Korean is such a hard language to learn!"
German, on the other hand, for an English speaker, seems rather easy to pick up. I swear that half the words just sound like English words said with a real funny accent.

Hey, here's a dumb question, for anyone who knows the answer. So, I know in English we often just make up names for various languages and countries based on the first person exposed to such things being a stupid asshole (presumably this is how we came up with a name like "Japan" for a country that's actually known as "Nippon" or "Nihon", or calling the language of Nahuatl "Aztec", or whatever). But how did we screw up with Dutch? To me, German should be Dutch, because German is Deutsche and Germany is Deutschland, which sounds a lot more like 'Dutch' to me. Dutch is spoken in The Netherlands, and I believe is just called Nederlands. So Dutch should be Netherlandese, and German should be called Dutch.
Am I crazy? Does anyone know why this got screwed up in the way that it did?

Harrie
01-15-2014, 12:11 PM
They're neighbouring countries, and it is no doubt due to the chaotic history Germany has. Before 1871, Germany was not a country and was instead lots of little countries. To give that a little perspective, Germany is younger than America.

Also, English is a mix of various different languages, but at its core it is a Germanic language. So languages like German and Swedish are naturally easier to learn. Then it also shares a lot of similarities with romantic languages (due to the Romans' own influence), so those too are easy to pick up too, though germanic languages are still closest.

Onnes
01-15-2014, 12:31 PM
The word "deutsch," in a variety of forms and Germanic languages, was used to denote the common spoken language, which is probably how we got "Dutch". Its original meaning was "popular" or "of the people." Not a bad choice for a unified German state. I'm not sure if its reference to the state precedes the Deutscher Bund in 1815, which wasn't even a state.

chocomage
01-15-2014, 02:18 PM
I couldn't get to sleep last night so I started learning Portuguese. I am using memrise or something like that? I was thinking of hopping between that and another tool to help me get a broader lesson.

I should pick up latin again but I would basically have to start over with the exception of a few of the basic knowledges of how it works and vocab words, but no one ever uses latin anymore. I would like something a bit more practical. IIRC Portuguese stems from latin so I should do decent.

BlissfulOblivion
01-15-2014, 04:26 PM
Also, English is a mix of various different languages, but at its core it is a Germanic language. So languages like German and Swedish are naturally easier to learn. Then it also shares a lot of similarities with romantic languages (due to the Romans' own influence), so those too are easy to pick up too, though germanic languages are still closest.

There was some influence of the Romans on Germanic cultures and languages but English is a little closer to Latin because of the Renaissance stuff where we decided that it would sound classy if we had a bunch of words stolen from Latin and Greek. Plus, if it were the Romans, the entirety of the Germanic language branch would have been affected. English developed quite a bit later.
But yes, English and German are fairly similar in that they are both Germanic languages.

Digitalpotato
01-15-2014, 06:12 PM
I have an email penpal in Japan who is going to graduate high school like... I think in a year or so and his life's goal is to learn five languages. (He actually came to visit his Aunt in America so he can learn to speak English - said aunt is my mom's former coworker. XP )

I really should get back to learning Spanish. I can sort of understand what people are saying when I hear Spanish being spoken, and can sorta read it.

BlissfulOblivion
01-15-2014, 06:17 PM
OOOoooooOOh!!! I can finally sort of do the Dutch "R"!!!! It's called a uvular trill [ʀ] and I've been trying for over a year now and I can finally sort of do it! Like, it feels like a trill instead of a gross fricative!! :D I'm so excited! C:

RainWizard
01-15-2014, 06:34 PM
OOOoooooOOh!!! I can finally sort of do the Dutch "R"!!!! It's called a uvular trill [ʀ] and I've been trying for over a year now and I can finally sort of do it! Like, it feels like a trill instead of a gross fricative!! :D I'm so excited! C:

Try the Welsh 'Ch'

BlissfulOblivion
01-15-2014, 06:39 PM
Try the Welsh 'Ch'

Idunno what it is! Is it like the German "ch" like in Bach? Cuz I can do that just fine :U I haven't tried epiglottal or below stuff but I can do most stuff that's just in the main mouth as long as I have heard it and know how it's supposed to be made.

RainWizard
01-15-2014, 07:07 PM
Idunno what it is! Is it like the German "ch" like in Bach? Cuz I can do that just fine :U I haven't tried epiglottal or below stuff but I can do most stuff that's just in the main mouth as long as I have heard it and know how it's supposed to be made.

Google how to say 'Chwech'. It's horrific for any non-welsh speaker :L

BlissfulOblivion
01-15-2014, 07:13 PM
Google how to say 'Chwech'. It's horrific for any non-welsh speaker :L

That's not that bad. I can do that. Try this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uvular_trill). It's the Dutch R.

mouthrot
01-16-2014, 12:24 PM
Trying to learn sign language myself! Thankfully most libraries have a hefty selection of ASL textbooks to help with this.
Drawing the signs makes for a wonderful practice for both the language, as well as drawing hands in general.

lifeprint.com is an excellent resource for anyone wanting to checkout this language as well!

BlissfulOblivion
01-16-2014, 05:27 PM
Trying to learn sign language myself! Thankfully most libraries have a hefty selection of ASL textbooks to help with this.
Drawing the signs makes for a wonderful practice for both the language, as well as drawing hands in general.

lifeprint.com is an excellent resource for anyone wanting to checkout this language as well!

Sign language is fun! <: I'm also trying to learn it. I'd be careful about books, though, because when I've talked with actual speakers about it they say that a lot of books have wrong or outdated information :c

Umbra_Exe
01-16-2014, 08:20 PM
I'd like to learn as many languages as I can. I'm not very good at it though. >>;
So far I know some Japanese, from taking it for a couple of years at college. I've got nobody to practice with though. :I
Oh, but we did use the Genki books mentioned earlier in the thread.

I'm also trying to learn French on Duolingo, not too bad, but again, I'm not so great at it ^^;
I'm brushing up on my Spanish there as well. I should know more than I do, almost my whole family speaks it but me. :c


I got a hold of the Language Hacking Guide through ...means, once. I like the idea of learning key phrases you'll actually use, but if you want to pick up Tolstoy in the original Russian I doubt it'll be much use. Still, anything that gets you learning is good and the blog is full of useful information.

Does anyone know if the Spanish on duolingo is American or European? I'm looking for American.
I'm pretty sure it's Latin American Spanish. I've tried it out and nothing sticks out as odd to me. XD In high school, we'd watch videos teaching European Spanish, which were sometimes strange to those of us who were more familiar with American Spanish. ^^;

BlissfulOblivion
01-16-2014, 08:25 PM
I'd like to learn as many languages as I can. I'm not very good at it though. >>;
So far I know some Japanese, from taking it for a couple of years at college. I've got nobody to practice with though. :I
Oh, but we did use the Genki books mentioned earlier in the thread.

I'm also trying to learn French on Duolingo, not too bad, but again, I'm not so great at it ^^;
I'm brushing up on my Spanish there as well. I should know more than I do, almost my whole family speaks it but me. :c


I'm pretty sure it's Latin American Spanish. I've tried it out and nothing sticks out as odd to me. XD In high school, we'd watch videos teaching European Spanish, which were sometimes strange to those of us who were more familiar with American Spanish. ^^;

ぼくと日本語で話してもいいですよ P: 一生に話せばうれしくなるんです <: Et je peux vous aider avec le français aussi si tu veux ! c: You're learning literally all of the languages I know much about. That's cool <:

Krespo
01-16-2014, 08:32 PM
I'm pretty sure it's Latin American Spanish. I've tried it out and nothing sticks out as odd to me. XD In high school, we'd watch videos teaching European Spanish, which were sometimes strange to those of us who were more familiar with American Spanish. ^^;

Good! I dont want to stand out as a wierdo c:

I'm sure European Spanish is lovely n all, but learning it would be like learning a regional form of English instead of the American kind.

- - - Updated - - -

(Excuse the double post, but seeing as it's unrelated to the previous one I found it necessary)

Does anyone have any experience with learning auxiliary languages? The concept has intrigued me for years, in particular Interlingua. Considering European languages are spoken in every continent on earth it seems sensible and necessary to have some understanding. Have a look at the wiki page (http://ia.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlingua) (written in Interlingua). As a monolingual English speaker most of it is already comprehensible.

BlissfulOblivion
01-16-2014, 10:31 PM
Does anyone have any experience with learning auxiliary languages? The concept has intrigued me for years, in particular Interlingua. Considering European languages are spoken in every continent on earth it seems sensible and necessary to have some understanding. Have a look at the wiki page (http://ia.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlingua) (written in Interlingua). As a monolingual English speaker most of it is already comprehensible.

I soooooooorta kinda looked at one once? It was Lingua Franca Nova (http://www.omniglot.com/writing/lfn.htm).

Interlingua looks heavily based on Spanish :I I read it in my head like it's Spanish. Idunno, though.

An official universal conlang is an interesting thought and a good idea, but it's kind of complicated. Any conlang unless randomly generated by a computer is going to have roots or biases towards some language (as is visible with Interlingua and Spanish) which kind of asserts some sort of cultural dominance which is one of the things it would be preferable to avoid in a universal language. As such, it would be just as well and about as easy to take one existing language and have that be the universal language. And a computer generated language will be next to impossible for anyone to learn. :U But it's weird. It's cool stuff, though! <:

Krespo
01-16-2014, 10:53 PM
An official universal conlang is an interesting thought and a good idea, but it's kind of complicated. Any conlang unless randomly generated by a computer is going to have roots or biases towards some language (as is visible with Interlingua and Spanish) which kind of asserts some sort of cultural dominance which is one of the things it would be preferable to avoid in a universal language. As such, it would be just as well and about as easy to take one existing language and have that be the universal language. And a computer generated language will be next to impossible for anyone to learn. :U But it's weird. It's cool stuff, though! <:

I see it less as 'cultural dominance' and more an issue of practicality. Fact is Romance languages are spoken by hundreds of millions of people throughout the world. Now, instead of learning all those languages, you can learn a simplified language that takes the common and basic features of them all and puts them together. As fun as language learning is, let's not forget the point of them is to communicate. I dont think I can pass up the ability to communicate with most of the world by spending a few months studying.

Interlingua is more of a modern day Latin than anything. I can see it as a great tool for introducing people for further study in the Romance languages, especially for the native English speaker.

BlissfulOblivion
01-17-2014, 01:37 AM
I see it less as 'cultural dominance' and more an issue of practicality. Fact is Romance languages are spoken by hundreds of millions of people throughout the world. Now, instead of learning all those languages, you can learn a simplified language that takes the common and basic features of them all and puts them together. As fun as language learning is, let's not forget the point of them is to communicate. I dont think I can pass up the ability to communicate with most of the world by spending a few months studying.

Interlingua is more of a modern day Latin than anything. I can see it as a great tool for introducing people for further study in the Romance languages, especially for the native English speaker.

Yeah. I can see your viewpoint and I understand it fine, it's just that it might be taken by other people that way. There's a whole thing about your language/culture footprint (http://www.hrelp.org/events/elw2008/languagefootprint.html) that you leave by making another person speak your language instead of going with theirs, which is especially important with smaller languages. That link is a little bit of an extreme example, but really everything starts somewhere. And I, personally, dislike the idea of a single universal language because that would be a huge detriment to the diversity and that would be boring :C But that's just me. I think it's a little more cumbersome but much more fun to have translators than a universal language <: Idunno though.

Iiiiiiii would disagree on that. Latin is veeeeeeeeeery different from that. The syntax and inflection patterns are noot like that at all. It's generally SOV and it has an inflectional case system whereas this is much closer to the modern romance languages with SVO and a syntax-based case shtuff (i have not gotten to the proper term for that yet).
Unless you were talking in a metaphorical sense in which case I have no idea what you meant by that :I
But I find it surprising that that's comprehensible to an English speaker. I feel like I only understand it because I speak French, a good amount of Spanish, and a little bit of Italian. :U Fascinating!

KEMOWARE
01-17-2014, 01:49 AM
I'm currently trying to learn japanese on my own, with the help of a game that was made by Ubisoft titled "My Japanese Coach" for the DS. It helps you memorizing what you have learned through mini-games and it's quite fun!

Je parle aussi français, puisque c'est ma langue maternelle!

Krespo
01-17-2014, 08:05 AM
Yeah. I can see your viewpoint and I understand it fine, it's just that it might be taken by other people that way. There's a whole thing about your language/culture footprint (http://www.hrelp.org/events/elw2008/languagefootprint.html) that you leave by making another person speak your language instead of going with theirs, which is especially important with smaller languages. That link is a little bit of an extreme example, but really everything starts somewhere. And I, personally, dislike the idea of a single universal language because that would be a huge detriment to the diversity and that would be boring :C But that's just me. I think it's a little more cumbersome but much more fun to have translators than a universal language <: Idunno though.

Iiiiiiii would disagree on that. Latin is veeeeeeeeeery different from that. The syntax and inflection patterns are noot like that at all. It's generally SOV and it has an inflectional case system whereas this is much closer to the modern romance languages with SVO and a syntax-based case shtuff (i have not gotten to the proper term for that yet).
Unless you were talking in a metaphorical sense in which case I have no idea what you meant by that :I
But I find it surprising that that's comprehensible to an English speaker. I feel like I only understand it because I speak French, a good amount of Spanish, and a little bit of Italian. :U Fascinating!

When I said it was a modern day Latin, I meant in the sense that it reunites the Romance languages :P

Dont get me wrong either, I'm all for language diversity. My national language is an extreme minority language, I'd hate to see it die out permanently. But for the practical minded learner, or someone trying to familiarise themselves with a different language group, I think Interlingua is a good way to go. From there you can easily branch off into French or Spanish or whatever with some understanding of how the language works. I still want to learn Spanish myself, it'll be useful for when I move to the US. If there's any linguists or students of the subject here, I'd love an opinion on it from them.

And it's not surprising I can understand most of it at a glance, English is influenced by Latin and French after all. The guide says it's readily understandable by speakers of a Romance language or a well-read English speaker. Not to boast or anything, but my English comprehension isn't too shabby :I

BlissfulOblivion
01-17-2014, 05:03 PM
When I said it was a modern day Latin, I meant in the sense that it reunites the Romance languages :P

Dont get me wrong either, I'm all for language diversity. My national language is an extreme minority language, I'd hate to see it die out permanently. But for the practical minded learner, or someone trying to familiarise themselves with a different language group, I think Interlingua is a good way to go. From there you can easily branch off into French or Spanish or whatever with some understanding of how the language works. I still want to learn Spanish myself, it'll be useful for when I move to the US. If there's any linguists or students of the subject here, I'd love an opinion on it from them.

And it's not surprising I can understand most of it at a glance, English is influenced by Latin and French after all. The guide says it's readily understandable by speakers of a Romance language or a well-read English speaker. Not to boast or anything, but my English comprehension isn't too shabby :I

Okay. That was my second guess as to what you meant. Just wasn't sure. Sorry! :c

That's a fair point. I think it would be a little simpler to just go into the language and skip the middle man, but if that works for you I guess that's fine! P:
I'm a linguistics/language student... of sorts... :c probably not what you're looking for though... ahahaha...

Well, yes, a lot of vocabulary is influenced by Latin and French, but the grammar is quite a bit different. After all, it is a Germanic language while the others are Romance languages :u Well, technically Latin is only the mother of the Romance languages and is technically an Italic language, but y'know what I mean. :I I was just surprised. Idunno. It definitely is cool, though c:

Neon Rain
01-17-2014, 08:03 PM
I'm learning Japanese mainly because I did it for 3 years in school and feel like I don't wanna let it go to waste. Granted I live in Australia so at least it's somewhat useful, and Japanese is a language that theres craploads of resources for so it all works out c:

tatters
01-17-2014, 10:54 PM
French! Kinda wanna Rosetta Stone something more exotic like Russian though~*
If anyone needs help with their français then I will be happy to help. |3

Frank LeRenard
01-17-2014, 11:25 PM
They're neighbouring countries, and it is no doubt due to the chaotic history Germany has. Before 1871, Germany was not a country and was instead lots of little countries. To give that a little perspective, Germany is younger than America.

Also, English is a mix of various different languages, but at its core it is a Germanic language. So languages like German and Swedish are naturally easier to learn. Then it also shares a lot of similarities with romantic languages (due to the Romans' own influence), so those too are easy to pick up too, though germanic languages are still closest.


The word "deutsch," in a variety of forms and Germanic languages, was used to denote the common spoken language, which is probably how we got "Dutch". Its original meaning was "popular" or "of the people." Not a bad choice for a unified German state. I'm not sure if its reference to the state precedes the Deutscher Bund in 1815, which wasn't even a state.

So... basically, political turmoil, basically? I guess that makes sense.
I was aware that English was a Germanic language at heart (though I know we've borrowed an awful lot from French and other Romance languages over the years). I was just curious if anyone had any specifics on the apparent mixup with those two language names, I guess.

Krespo
01-18-2014, 10:43 AM
I'm a linguistics/language student... of sorts... :c probably not what you're looking for though... ahahaha...

Actually, I value the opinion of anyone who knows their stuff (psst, that's you c:)

BlissfulOblivion
01-18-2014, 05:48 PM
Actually, I value the opinion of anyone who knows their stuff (psst, that's you c:)

I don't know enough of my stuff yet :C Mostly what I know is phonetics and phonology and the stuff I've been able to figure out via observations and intuition. And I have a whole year to wait until I can take a real linguistics class ; ∩ ;
(thanks though ; u ;)

Rinzy
01-19-2014, 08:58 PM
Ugh, I've been terrible and not practicing D: Anyone else have a problem with motivating themselves to actually do the work? XD

chocomage
01-19-2014, 09:36 PM
Basically what I'm doing is treating learning Portuguese as a daily thing. Wake up brush teeth etc. review what I learned then do the same thing at the end of my day.

Tapeworm
01-20-2014, 03:37 AM
I kinda do, if make my own languages and kinda learn them in the process. I'm focusing most of my learning into just one of them right now.
I do have a few actual languages I think would be nice to learn too.

Dreaming
05-29-2014, 12:18 AM
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Thialyth
05-29-2014, 08:06 PM
Know french and portuguese and would LOVE to learn russian, but I fear it is a difficult language

Xyano
05-29-2014, 09:58 PM
spanish is a really hard language do not take it in high school
do not

Torrijos_sama
06-01-2014, 12:31 AM
So... basically, political turmoil, basically? I guess that makes sense.
I was aware that English was a Germanic language at heart (though I know we've borrowed an awful lot from French and other Romance languages over the years). I was just curious if anyone had any specifics on the apparent mixup with those two language names, I guess.

English is like Louisiana Creole.

We're just Old Norse, smashed together with elements of gaelic, norman french, alsø wik Dutch.
The closest existing languages to English are Scots (which somehow developed alongside modern English) and Frisian, which exists through the Netherlands and Denmark.

piñardilla
06-01-2014, 11:52 AM
spanish is a really hard language do not take it in high school
do not

Spanish is pretty much the easiest language in existence.

Es muy fácil.

BlissfulOblivion
06-01-2014, 11:27 PM
*bump* I've been reading some French lately and I've found that the trickiest part is getting used to the reflexive (se, s') and la/le pronouns. Apart from that and some other small stuff, it's actually a pretty easy language to grasp.

Vraiment ? J'ai pensé que la plus difficile partie d'apprendre le français pour beaucoup de personnes était quelques choses comme le subjonctif et les temps/modes plus compliqués.
Et oui, je suis en accord que les genres sont très difficile à apprendre. Même maintenant j'ai des problèmes avec ceux ; o ;



Spanish is pretty much the easiest language in existence.

Es muy fácil.

Yeah kind of. I haven't taken any Spanish courses and I can understand my friends who are native speakers :I Pero yo no hablo español bien. Solo un poco.

BlissfulOblivion
08-20-2015, 06:20 PM
(double post cuz this thread has died sorry)

I have rediscovered duolingo (https://www.duolingo.com/) and it has gotten so much better than when I first tried it. It's pretty fantastic imo. I'm using it to relearn French and I'm nearing halfway through the Italian course. I just need somewhere to speak it now :P

GlaringFeline
08-20-2015, 08:16 PM
I'm currently studying German(I'm still a beginner :c ), the most confusing thing for me is the da/wo compounds, and other things I'm having problems memorizing.

SidewalkSurfboard
08-20-2015, 11:55 PM
I've been trying to learn Japanese for years, and I mean years. It's been a difficult progress, but I can pronounce most Japanese well, but only know a few phrases so far. Still can't read it yet.

shiy0
08-21-2015, 05:55 AM
learning other languages is always fun but learning swedish? sometimes you just stand there thinking somebody talked to you in sims language. i think i even heard some words i've heard in sims before and i still hope that was just my brain telling me so. .-."

BlissfulOblivion
08-21-2015, 05:37 PM
I looked up Irish writing and pronunciation. You pronounce the word "Maedhbh" as "Mayv" and you pronounce "An bhfuil" as "An will".

Why.



I've been trying to learn Japanese for years, and I mean years. It's been a difficult progress, but I can pronounce most Japanese well, but only know a few phrases so far. Still can't read it yet.

Japanese is really cool. Can you at least read it in romaji?
Watashi mo nihongo wo naratteimasu kedo ima chotto nigate desu. Private lessons wo totteimashita kedo byouki ni natta kara yamemashita. Ima kaete naraitai desu.
Don't worry though, Japanese is supposedly one of the three hardest languages for English speakers to learn (the others being Arabic and Chinese). I commend you for studying it :P

Frank LeRenard
08-21-2015, 06:24 PM
I looked up Irish writing and pronunciation. You pronounce the word "Maedhbh" as "Mayv" and you pronounce "An bhfuil" as "An will".

If you try to say it out loud like you might in English, it almost starts to make a little bit of sense.
Welsh is also weird. I still don't get how 'dd' is a 'th' sound, but... sure, okay.

GlaringFeline
08-21-2015, 06:27 PM
I want to learn Japanese but it's really hard. DX

I thought about this, and my sister really likes the idea. My definition of fluency is learning the language itself and then spending time in the country to learn the slang.


learning other languages is always fun but learning swedish? sometimes you just stand there thinking somebody talked to you in sims language. i think i even heard some words i've heard in sims before and i still hope that was just my brain telling me so. .-."

I think Swedish was one of the inspirations for Simlish along with a few others.

sayum
08-29-2015, 04:38 AM
I plan on studying Japanese seriously when I get to college. Right now I study for fun and not particularly hard. I have been learning bits for a long time and I have a good collection of online resources that have really helped (if anyone wants a list just hit me up).

Another language I want to learn is Welsh. Its a pretty language and I am a big Arthurian fan so that's another motivator. Plus Wales is like, my dream country. I could live happily in Hay on Wye.

After that I do not know what else I want to learn. Maybe French. :D