PDA

View Full Version : The Gothic/Deathrocker Megathread



Rilvor
01-05-2014, 05:29 AM
In an attempt to make some topics about more subcultures around here, I'd like to do the honor of creating this one.

How many of my fellow snarklings, darklings, or whatever you horrid people call yourselves do we have here?

What kind of Goth are you? (Not sure? Check here for something that while tongue-in-cheek and very generalized is none-the-less fun to play with: http://www.blackwaterfall.com/viewall.php )

I could say I ascribe to the Corp Goth as style goes, but now and then I will wear the fishnets, leather pants, and calf-high leather shitstompers to work as well. It's all meant in humor really, any realistic individual would find traits in several of them.

I'm sitting here thinking of a dozen other questions I could type out but really that just makes this seem more like a questionnaire than a discussion thread; We all get enough questions as is. Now that being said...

Do you have any questions about the subculture? I would be more than happy to answer them to the best of my ability.

For everyone else, what does Goth mean to you?

I will answer this myself when I have more time.

Vae
01-05-2014, 05:47 AM
In terms of music, I would probably classify as a hybrid between trad and cyber. Yeah, figure out how that works. Lol.
Siouxsie, Bauhaus, Alien Sex Fiend, and Danse Society are a few of my favorites.
So are Assemblage 23, DeVision, VNV Nation, and Beborn Beton.


In terms of fashion, I range just about everywhere.
One day, I'll be dressed up in a nice vinyl corset with a fairy-style layered skirt and stiletto boots with lace gloves.
The next, I'll toss on my black jeans, a NES shirt, and my Docs.
Along with many, many, many other things. If you don't think I would wear it based on my current outfit, I probably actually do.

As far as attitudes and actual culture go, I'm not really into that aspect. Just like I'm not into the cultures of... say... furry or being a gamer.
I'm just a fan of things.

Rilvor
01-06-2014, 05:02 AM
I tend to listen to the more traditional variety of music. I can't stand EBM, or Industrial, or Metal (with rare exceptions), and other such things that tend to bleed over into Goth. Call me stubborn and whatever else one might, but I do not think those kinds of sounds are what Goth is about. I feel like trying to take anything and everything that is "dark" and trying to apply it to Goth does it a disservice. My favorite are things that fit very well into the Gothic idea, but are so unique they defy genre. Those are rare indeed.

I listen to a lot of Siouxsie and Bauhaus as well, although I must admit I do enjoy The Sister of Mercy and I adore Fields of the Nephilim. Eldritch's singing voice is the best, the best. I like a fair number of unfortunately less appreciated bands; Skeletal Family, Corupus Delicti, Big Electric Cat, 45 Grave, Mephisto Walz. Special mentions go to Cinema Strange and Voltaire, who stand outside the rest with the way they are. I've got a fairly expansive taste in other things as well, Punk and Folk (Celtic) springs to mind, but that is for another place.

I am not so deeply ingrained into the social aspect of the subculture; I read Goth.net every so often but I rarely speak. I've managed a mere 290 posts since 2008. I certainly don't go clubbing, although I'd be willing to give one a try I suppose.

However, I do see and agree with what kind of attitude and cultural taste makes a Goth. Now this could go on for quite some time, more than I'd like to dedicate right now, to explain what kind of mindset I think separates Gothic Subculture from everyone else. Suffice to say, it is not like furries or gamers. Those are hobbies. One does not simply grow up with a view on life that makes them any such thing, but I do think there is a whole lot of life view that goes into what a Goth is.

Pine
01-06-2014, 07:49 AM
I listen to a lot of metal and its' subgenres, and boy does it piss me off when people don't assume I do because "hurr durr you don't dress like a guy that listens to death metal."
I guess wearing a black band tee and jeans isn't "brutal" enough for metalhead standards.

Seriously, if you think that you have to dress a certain way to be interested in a specific topic, you're a shallow asshole.
Fuck fashion. Fuck trends. Like whatever you want to.

FishNChips
01-06-2014, 08:27 AM
I listen to a lot of metal and its' subgenres, and boy does it piss me off when people don't assume I do because "hurr durr you don't dress like a guy that listens to death metal."
I guess wearing a black band tee and jeans isn't "brutal" enough for metalhead standards.

Seriously, if you think that you have to dress a certain way to be interested in a specific topic, you're a shallow asshole.
Fuck fashion. Fuck trends. Like whatever you want to.

Metalhead here, strong preference for slam and Brutal Death before moving on to melodeath, powermetal, symphonic metal, and the likes.

I'm the least metal-looking person I would say. Unless wearing a lot of black counts. I don't wear anything pointy. I don't even have long hair, and couldn't especially due to working in food. But I am a long boots person. Considering that metal is the core of my music diet, I too detest the idea that I need to get into the fashion/stereotype stuff to be considered part of the subculture.

JiJi
01-06-2014, 09:02 AM
I listen to a lot of metal and its' subgenres, and boy does it piss me off when people don't assume I do because "hurr durr you don't dress like a guy that listens to death metal."
I guess wearing a black band tee and jeans isn't "brutal" enough for metalhead standards.

Seriously, if you think that you have to dress a certain way to be interested in a specific topic, you're a shallow asshole.
Fuck fashion. Fuck trends. Like whatever you want to.

Conversely, when I started uni, I was a little more pierced and wore black, purple clothing mainly.
My teacher forced me into the metal band with like 4 other guitarists just because how we were dressed, I kept asking to join the blues band for a change of playing.
I hate people who assume they can know you off your dress sense, I mean play basketball when I can, I jog, I listen to various genres but people see my face and clothes and assume I have to like metal.

OT I don't have any erm.. direction to a subculture though, I just wander between places due to music mainly.
Pine's post made me want to talk. I'll leave now.

Rilvor
01-08-2014, 04:54 AM
Not to sound as if I am being controlling here folks, but I'd appreciate it if we'd shift back onto the topic of Gothic Subculture (Which, Deathrockers for all intents and purposes really are the same thing; Deathrock just tends to have a stronger Punk influence). I understand that there are plenty of metalheads that get mistaken for Goths, and plenty of Goths that like Metal. But the difference between say Ozzy Osbourne and Peter Murphy is pretty drastic.

Truth be told if you are going by what the music is like, Gothic Rock and Metal are the antithesis of each other.

Might I suggest a Metal thread, if there isn't one already?

FishNChips
01-08-2014, 10:24 AM
Might I suggest a Metal thread, if there isn't one already?

They always end up being filled with 'cores and rock music that is mistaken for metal simply due to the use of distorted guitars.

SirCoffeecup
01-08-2014, 11:24 AM
They always end up being filled with 'cores and rock music that is mistaken for metal simply due to the use of distorted guitars.
Aww yeah, genre warfare.
I always enjoy the longass youtube comment chains where two people argue what genre a certain song is and they both end up being wrong and change their opinion a thousand times.
I want this on Weasyl. Make this happen.

FishNChips
01-08-2014, 12:21 PM
Aww yeah, genre warfare.
I always enjoy the longass youtube comment chains where two people argue what genre a certain song is and they both end up being wrong and change their opinion a thousand times.
I want this on Weasyl. Make this happen.

"Hurr Death Metal > Power Metal" and other elitism is stupid and sad, but miscategorisation happens too often.

A lot of "metal" is only marketed as such. Rammstein, as much as I sperge over them, get referred to as Metal a lot, and while Rammstein's metal influence is significant enough for a metal fan to like it, it's very difficult to call Rammstein a metal band if you listen closely to Rammstein after listening to, say, Amon Amarth.
Rammstein begins to sound like either dance music (Du Riechst so Gut, Laichzeit), hard rock music (Ich tu dir Weh, Mann Gegen Mann), the occasional symphonic element thrown in (Mein Herz Brennt), or something that just isn't metal or even rock (Fruhling in Paris, etc.).

But the guys in Rammstein refer to themselves multiple times in videos as either an industrial band, a rock band or "Neue Deutsch Harte". Despite their smaller ventures into the more slow, soulful types of things, they're foremost a Industrial Hard Rock band.

People call bands "metal" based on the punchy, loud, distorted sorta sound it uses as opposed to the way the majority of their music is written, basically. Or how whatever record company chooses to market them as. People forget that "Metal" is something that stands as a separate category and is not a synonym for Hard Rock music - they are structured very differently.

Rule of thumb is that the majority of hard rock makes use of a more cyclic composition that most of us are very familiar with in many genres, and metal likes to to use a phrasal composition that has a lot in common with classical music. There are also other stylistic elements and certain choices that crop up more frequently in each genre.

Source: University of Metallurgy
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_rLboxELyxeg/S-1EY2Wp_HI/AAAAAAAAATU/tlobduCDlRo/s1600/schoolofrock3.jpg
---

Disclaimer: It doesn't bother me at all what's being liked by people, that's just stupid. Metal and Hard Rock have very real differences, but then you have genres like Metalcore and Deathcore that become controversial in their classification. Think how we managed to separate dinosaurs from birds, then the Archaeopteryx got discovered and buggered everything up due to mishmashing both.

In short, it's best to like what you like, but calling a grapefruit an orange makes my autism show.

Rilvor
01-08-2014, 04:32 PM
They always end up being filled with 'cores and rock music that is mistaken for metal simply due to the use of distorted guitars.

I understand that but gentlemen please, I did ask politely.

batbot
05-24-2014, 07:28 AM
(looks both ways) Is it safe to bring this thread back? I like the original premise about talking about other subcultures/etc, that's why I dived through the pages to find stuff that interested me!

IMO, "Goth" is more of an overarching genre that includes several distinct movements from a couple of eras, and "Gothic Rock" is a genre of music that happens to have a lot of "the themes" and spawned a lot of contemporary interest in a formative "scene".
As per, I listen to a lot of electronic-y music (EBM, industrial/+rock/+metal, synthpop, darkwave, new wave) or digitally altered/composed music (again certain flavors of EBM, dark ambient, oh god the various permutations on "noise" music), but I also listen to less digitized stuff, punk/hardcore, and gothic rock....swinging to fully acoustic genres like anti-folk, folk punk, neofolk, and...tracks of people ritualistically chanting. On that note, though, I think it's valid to point out that Goth Rock, Industrial, and Metal all have different points of origin, different histories, and came out of different communities, even if we might have overlapping themes, fans, bands, record labels, whatever.

But I also think music alone can be a bad parameter. To me "goth" is more of a general connotation of dark+spooky, morose or macabre, stuff that has an outlook that is strange, perhaps dreary. As a young person, I was more into dark fantasy stories, ghosts, documentaries about "grotesque" or "eccentric" subjects, and being scared out of my wits. Getting older, stuff like "Weird" fiction and scifi/cyberpunk thrillers brought in influence, too. I'll own up to being notably lacking on my "classics" of gothic literature and weird fic. For me, I call myself "goth" more on the basis of liking a general swath of subject matter that shares similar core themes than liking/listening to any one genre of music.

How I dress tends to often swing between two primary modes: cool weather = foppish-to-frumpy library hound, hot weather = groady crusty queer punk. I acquire Halloween-themed duds, but mostly I just wear black to wipe the ink off on my pants without anyone noticing. I've also never owned a white shirt that I didn't immediately ruin with some stain. Too much bother.
I always thought the "Goth (Stereo)Types" were cute. I'd put myself mostly in a Rivethead/Geek/Fetish/Hippy Venn Diagram.

Hum, I don't really "participate" in the subculture, I follow some goth bloggers, some of who are lifestyle bloggers/vloggers, annnd I create comics that often incidentally have goth characters, but I guess they also adhere to "the theme" of being spooky, weird, and morose...not so much macabre right now (not so much anything right now, as far as comics for me).

Rilvor
05-28-2014, 03:34 AM
I'm just surprised to see this thread exhumed in the first place!

I suppose if wanted to say something I felt would hit the most marks, I'd say that Goth is about self discovery.

But I do also love that it's against the norm in a very important way: We live in a world that has convinced itself that everyone needs to be happy all of the time, and if you aren't happy then there is something wrong with you and you need pills. Or brainwashing. Or pills and brainwashing. We are the ones who defy that notion, and by being ourselves we will continue to remind the world of that which it should not attempt to cram into the closet lest skeletons take up residence.

Edit: And a fair hello to you, good to see another one of us.

Neviam
05-28-2014, 08:19 PM
Definitely still identify as goth, I have since I was 12. I'm into early deathrock like Bauhaus and Souixsie, industrial rock (not the rave/ VampireFreaks stuff, though.. more like KMFDM and Ministry), black metal, and a lot of dark art and poetry. I don't dress the part nearly as heavily as I used to, but the fashion still dictates a lot of my clothing choices.

Vae
05-28-2014, 08:43 PM
Speaking of goth and goth interests, a new store opened up nearby that actually has some pretty cool shit in it.
Little coffin purses and bat shirts and a gigantic asston of boots.
I think I'mma finally buy me a pair of creepers on my next paycheck, considering they aren't stupid expensive, there.

Rilvor
05-29-2014, 03:34 AM
Speaking of goth and goth interests, a new store opened up nearby that actually has some pretty cool shit in it.
Little coffin purses and bat shirts and a gigantic asston of boots.
I think I'mma finally buy me a pair of creepers on my next paycheck, considering they aren't stupid expensive, there.


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/vygbuhzjm0e9ucj/bela-lugosi.jpg

Do it.

Batty Krueger
05-29-2014, 04:24 AM
I wish I listened to more stuff like that. I just wouldn't know where to start, other than Voltaire. But thats variety under one band/dude.

Rilvor
05-29-2014, 12:31 PM
I wish I listened to more stuff like that. I just wouldn't know where to start, other than Voltaire. But thats variety under one band/dude.

Let me see if I can't set you up with some examples I think are decent from some bands. Perhaps at least one of them hits a mark that would be exceptional.

First, one of my favorite bands:

ME2-gntRcAQ

45 Grave is an old Horror Punk/Deathrock band straight out of California, and is regarded as one of the first.

a1dn1XKMR3s

Sisters of Mercy are a Gothrock standby.

IuezNswtRfo

Bauhaus is a mixed bag, so don't let one bad example put you off. These guys have a fair bit of variety in their sound.

8iGvfWus-y4

Siouxsie and the Banshees is like this as well, especially given how long the band was together.

EbXSiEXqG5Q

I haven't heard a whole lot of these guys, but this song I liked quite a lot:

NHePfdS0I4Q

Mephisto Walz is one I liked and wish they had made more music, but Goth Rock bands suffer a curse to die early.

8ho86SC-oIo

Killing Joke is one you may already know, but in case you haven't heard of them...

AdfKEjucYh4

For expedience I'm going to list bands and a song you might try out from here on:

Skeletal Family - Delirium
Scarlet's Remains - The Mystical East

There's definitely a bunch of others I'll post as I remember them if anyone asks, but I'm trying to wrap this post up.

Rilvor
05-30-2014, 03:00 AM
I kinda just like the looks some people in the culture have. I'm not one to get into this sort of stuff. Not heavily anyway.

Nothing wrong with that at all. It's a hell of a lot better than the opposite, goodness knows we've got enough of that to handle.

Torrijos_sama
06-01-2014, 12:14 AM
I like funky shit.

My whole life is funky shit, funky electronic music, and a little bit of neofolk. I'm a southerner. That's the name of the game.

6Lrv4BLMF1I

kZtwFPB7m4w

6XaYvq73_Pk

And, of course, jazzy shit:
uCI24Lt9aNQ

And, more acoustic things.
4z50p2v5Of0

And fucking Frank Zappa.

The rest of my time is filled with heathenry, southern heathenry with dat hoodoo, reading, writing, and writing fetish smut.