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Demu
07-30-2012, 10:51 PM
MMOs are an amazing genre for me. They let me connect with people in ways that make long distance friendships feel that much closer. I love talking about MMOs. I'm so happy that there are so many cooperative and multiplayer games coming out in the past few years. ;_; I'd like to discuss MMOs in this topic!

Free to play, pay to play, and buy to play - f2p, p2p, and b2p respectively - are three popular payment models for massively multiplayer online games. All three of these models have their own pros and cons, but what's the point of them? What sort of effect to they have on gameplay or a community? I'd like to discuss that here.

Pay to Play
Up until around 2008 pay to play MMOs were the most common types of online games, including renowned titles like World of Warcraft, Lineage II, and Final Fantasy XI. A pay to play model is when you pay a monthly fee to continue getting access to the game. Most p2p games also require you to buy their game at a retailer as well, so you are spending quite a pretty penny on these games, as their average subscription costs range from $10-$15 per month. A lot of games that were once pay to play have since switched to the free to play model in favor of its popularity.

Examples of pay to play MMOs:

World of Warcraft (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/?-) (which has recently gone f2p until level 20)
Lineage II (http://www.lineage2.com/en/) (now free to play)
Final Fantasy XI (http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/index.shtml)
TERA (http://tera.enmasse.com/)


Free to Play
Free to play MMOs are games where there is no fee to access and play them at all. This model has taken a MASSIVE leap into the mainstream thanks to Facebook games like Farmville (eugh) that sport microtransactions. A microtransaction is when you are paying a small (or large in some cases) fee to get perks in various f2p games, either temporarily or permanently. These perks may be anything from experience point multipliers, vanity items that change your character's appearance, or even more powerful weapons. In some f2p games, like Spiral Knights, they offer in game "points" ("crystal energy" in Spiral Knights) that act as a sort of wallet for your account. You can add money at any time and use it for various things in the game. Spiral Knights is one of the leading free to play games on the market.

Examples of free to play MMOs:

Spiral Knights (http://www.spiralknights.com/)
Ragnarok Online (http://iro.ragnarokonline.com/) (was once pay to play)
Dragon Saga (http://www.playdragonsaga.com/landing/combo.aspx) (was once known as Dragonica Online)
Maple Story (http://maplestory.nexon.net/)
Hawken (http://www.playhawken.com/) (probably the highest quality f2p game I've seen so far)


Buy to Play
Lastly, there's buy to play, or b2p. Buy to play is when you buy the title at a retailer or via digital download and then the game is completely free from then on out. Guild Wars is probably the most popular franchise I can think of that uses this model. Later on, some buy to play games may add content expansions for an extra fee.

Examples of buy to play MMOs:

Guild Wars (http://www.guildwars.com/)/Guild Wars 2 (http://www.guildwars2.com/en/)
... that's the only one I can think of at the moment. LOL.


What is your favorite pay model? Least favorite? I personally prefer buy to play. I wish more games used it. ):

Discuss!

Lee
07-30-2012, 11:02 PM
I prefer Free to Play honestly. Mostly because that was the sort of game I always enjoyed playing because I couldn't afford subscription fees for other games. Not to mention they usually have a lot cuter graphics and I dig that (or at least the ones I played did lol).

Demu
07-30-2012, 11:04 PM
I prefer Free to Play honestly. Mostly because that was the sort of game I always enjoyed playing because I couldn't afford subscription fees for other games. Not to mention they usually have a lot cuter graphics and I dig that (or at least the ones I played did lol).

Yeah, South Korea popularized the free to play market long before it was mainstream. They're hipsters I guess. A lot of Korean MMOs are cutesy 'n such, like Ragnarok Online, Dragon Saga, or MapleStory. I'm always iffy between buy to play and free to play models. ;_; They're both so good.

Which games do you play?

Lee
07-30-2012, 11:06 PM
Yeah, South Korea popularized the free to play market long before it was mainstream. They're hipsters I guess. A lot of Korean MMOs are cutesy 'n such, like Ragnarok Online, Dragon Saga, or MapleStory. I'm always iffy between buy to play and free to play models. ;_; They're both so good.

Which games do you play?
I like Free to Play because... I'm not sure why. I think it's because I like spending my money on pixelated objects lmao.

I've played Maplestory, LaTale, and Trickster. I will occasionally go back to one or the other of them. There's just that nostalgia factor there. ;3;

Demu
07-30-2012, 11:11 PM
I like Free to Play because... I'm not sure why. I think it's because I like spending my money on pixelated objects lmao.

I've played Maplestory, LaTale, and Trickster. I will occasionally go back to one or the other of them. There's just that nostalgia factor there. ;3;

All of those are good games. <3 Ragnarok Online was my MAIN THING for like.. 6 years or more?? That game was my druuuug.

ChitterBox
07-30-2012, 11:18 PM
I'm a bit torn between P2P and F2P. With P2P you usually get some sort of higher quality from the game and the community, but you have no idea what it's like until you've already attached a credit card to your account and bought the game. With F2P you get to try before you invest anything, and only have to invest when you feel like it's worth your money, but the quality seems a little lackluster and the community can be rather obnoxious.

Then again I've enjoyed one of each, them being Final Fantasy XI and Dungeons and Dragons Online, so I guess the games themselves are more of a deciding point than their payment methods.

Demu
07-30-2012, 11:22 PM
I'm a bit torn between P2P and F2P. With P2P you usually get some sort of higher quality from the game and the community, but you have no idea what it's like until you've already attached a credit card to your account and bought the game. With F2P you get to try before you invest anything, and only have to invest when you feel like it's worth your money, but the quality seems a little lackluster and the community can be rather obnoxious.

Then again I've enjoyed one of each, them being Final Fantasy XI and Dungeons and Dragons Online, so I guess the games themselves are more of a deciding point than their payment methods.

Yeah, there are some RIDICULOUSLY good f2p games coming out recently, like Hawken (see link in OP). It's always the games that matter more then the payment model. :3

I do wish more p2p games would offer free trials though, to let you experience /just/ enough of the action to get you interested. Kinda like what TERA did with their instant demo here (you'll need Java installed): http://tera.enmasse.com/try-tera

ChitterBox
07-30-2012, 11:27 PM
Ooh, Tera offers a trial? I'll have to try that in the future!

And there are some ridiculously good F2Ps out there, like Hawken as you mentioned and Dungeons and Dragons Online. Phantasy Star Online 2 is going to be F2P as well, and I am completely psyched for its release. I just hope I can find time to play it X3.

Demu
07-30-2012, 11:38 PM
Ooh, Tera offers a trial? I'll have to try that in the future!

And there are some ridiculously good F2Ps out there, like Hawken as you mentioned and Dungeons and Dragons Online. Phantasy Star Online 2 is going to be F2P as well, and I am completely psyched for its release. I just hope I can find time to play it X3.

Yeah! For TERA's instant demo you don't need to download anything at all, it just plays through your browser. :3

I was stoked to find out PSO2 was being released in English - I currently play it in Japanese and it's kinda difficult. LOL. The translation patch doesn't work anymore. ;_;

Lee
07-31-2012, 12:11 AM
All of those are good games. <3 Ragnarok Online was my MAIN THING for like.. 6 years or more?? That game was my druuuug.
I NEVER PLAYED RO though I always wanted to because its graphics were so damn cute. I loved the sort of sprite look for it... But now I'm too old and busy to start a new game like that... Well wait okay no I'm not I'M JUST SCARED TO TRY AND GET ADDICTED...

Demu
07-31-2012, 12:21 AM
I NEVER PLAYED RO though I always wanted to because its graphics were so damn cute. I loved the sort of sprite look for it... But now I'm too old and busy to start a new game like that... Well wait okay no I'm not I'M JUST SCARED TO TRY AND GET ADDICTED...

RO is way too addicting. YOU WILL GET LOST IN IT FOREVER I PROMISE.

Lee
07-31-2012, 12:47 AM
ro is way too addicting. You will get lost in it forever i promise.

woah then i guess i should avoid it

SirCoffeecup
07-31-2012, 05:52 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Hawken isn't an MMO. It's f2p like Blacklight retribution. Idk though if it'll become p2w

FishNChips
07-31-2012, 05:59 AM
F2P games always have a way of pissing me off and disappointing me. Hence why nowadays I steer clear of them. Whenever I see an F2P release on Steam, I just ignore it.

P2P I don't have many thoughts on, usually because I can't afford to pay out the arse monthly. Though if I had the money, I think I'd be trying EVE online.

B2P is pretty much every game I have, nevermind MMOs.

SirCoffeecup
07-31-2012, 06:01 AM
Gibbarse there are some quite good f2p games out there.
Team Fortress 2, Blacklight....

FishNChips
07-31-2012, 06:27 AM
Gibbarse there are some quite good f2p games out there.
Team Fortress 2, Blacklight....

I can't comment on Blacklight, but I really struggle to like TF2, despite having nearly 40 hours spent on it, according to steam. :[

Though I respect TF2 as a game, and I enjoy the TF2 universe. It also has a good model for F2P. I just don't like playing it.

Stormdragonblue
07-31-2012, 08:44 AM
Ragnarok Online was my huge addiction years ago- but never on the official servers. I've seen plenty of free RO servers come and go. Only a few good ones still endure. Even now I still have one of those installed just in case. it happens maybe once or twice a year... that I must play a little more of RO. It has a charm (and amazing music) that loves to pull me back in.

But overall I'm just no big fan of any of them. Wonderful graphics, decent story and even good game mechanics are nothing when the game is one gigantic tedious grind. Just like Facebook style games have the dreaded "energy" that makes me shun away. Way too many MMO's relay on endless grind to pad things out to keep you around. It kills the game for me.

Ibuuyk
07-31-2012, 10:59 AM
I'd say my favorite model is f2p with an ingame cash shop (outfits and stuff, nothing gamebreaking)

The absolute best f2p I know (and I've played dozens) is without a doubt FlyFF (short for Fly For Fun, silly name but wonderful game). Of course, that's after Runescape Classic, but since less than 200 players still play it, it's pretty much dead. After that, I'd say Dark Eden was a pretty neat MMO till it got ruined by hackers and the devs gave up on it. Finally, Thang Online and Turf Battles have interesting level systems and can be pretty fun if you've got people to play with.

As far as p2p goes, WoW is of course the best, though that may be a bit biased since it's really the only p2p I've played (unless Runescape's membership counts)

b2p? Guild Wars, I too can't think of anything else :V. Though I have to admit that Guild Wars was incredibly boring to me. It's just so bland, long and repetitive. Plus I kinda like to actually have more than 20 levels.

Sinjo
07-31-2012, 11:02 AM
I like the guild wars model. Buy it and play it for free.

Demu
07-31-2012, 01:49 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Hawken isn't an MMO. It's f2p like Blacklight retribution. Idk though if it'll become p2w

It's an MMOFPS. MMO simply stands for massively multiplayer online (game), which is solely what games like Hawken, Tribes: Ascend, and BL:R focus on. Massive multiplayer. c: It can be confusing though - that's why the MMO genre has subgenres; MMORPG, MMOFPS, MMORTS, and so on.~

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I can't comment on Blacklight, but I really struggle to like TF2, despite having nearly 40 hours spent on it, according to steam. :[

Though I respect TF2 as a game, and I enjoy the TF2 universe. It also has a good model for F2P. I just don't like playing it.

I'm EXACTLY the same. I've tried to like it because all my friends like it, but to no avail. ;_; But you can't ignore the fact it's an objectively quality game!

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Way too many MMO's relay on endless grind to pad things out to keep you around. It kills the game for me.

I'm probably in the minority of people that really enjoy grind TO keep me playing longer. But I only tend to like the grind if I like the game itself, of course.

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I like the guild wars model. Buy it and play it for free.

Yes! If I'm gonna be playing a game I love, I want to feel like I own it, you know? That's why I love b2p. The temporary cash shop items in f2p games make them feel very monotonous. Redundant.

SirCoffeecup
07-31-2012, 05:23 PM
It's an MMOFPS. MMO simply stands for massively multiplayer online (game), which is solely what games like Hawken, Tribes: Ascend, and BL:R focus on. Massive multiplayer. c: It can be confusing though - that's why the MMO genre has subgenres; MMORPG, MMOFPS, MMORTS, and so on.~
I'd hate to stomp your stamps, but:
"A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting hundreds or thousands of players simultaneously... ... MMOGs host a large number of players in a single game world, and all of those players can interact with each other at any given time. Popular MMOGs might have thousands of players online at any given time, usually on a company owned server."

MMO is not a game that has thousands of players on small servers like Tribes ascend or BL:R. They're just popular games.
By your definition Mw3 would be a MMO.

I'd just like to point this out here ;)

Demu
07-31-2012, 05:41 PM
I'd hate to stomp your stamps, but:
"A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting hundreds or thousands of players simultaneously... ... MMOGs host a large number of players in a single game world, and all of those players can interact with each other at any given time. Popular MMOGs might have thousands of players online at any given time, usually on a company owned server."

MMO is not a game that has thousands of players on small servers like Tribes ascend or BL:R. They're just popular games.
By your definition Mw3 would be a MMO.

I'd just like to point this out here ;)

Yes, yes, of course! That is exactly what an MMO is and that is exactly what these games are. When a game is specifically meant for mass multiplayer, it falls under the MMO category - be it a persistent world or instanced worlds. In the end the categorization of a game is dependent upon the developer, but yeah, that does not change the definition you listed above. c:

I'm extremely happy that MMOs have become more popular. ; W;

SirCoffeecup
07-31-2012, 07:04 PM
Sigh, they're just multiplayer exclusive games.
But whatever.

Aetius
07-31-2012, 07:18 PM
Would you look at that, Old Republic will become free to play.

Demu
07-31-2012, 07:31 PM
Would you look at that, Old Republic will become free to play.

Yeah I heard about that! It's kind of concerning though, because I thought it was such a popular game. ; o; I imagine TERA will follow suit later on. Huge hype, but then it just kinda died out. ):

Oovie
07-31-2012, 08:01 PM
Playing Vanilla and BC in WoW was a real joy, playing WotLK and purchasing Cata grew into huge regrets as they progressed. WoW turned me off on all P2P games, especially once I started to find much more entertaining B2P games, and even the seldom quality F2P.


Would you look at that, Old Republic will become free to play.
Not a surprise here! Too many people (such as me) avoided it I suppose.

Sinjo
07-31-2012, 08:15 PM
Would you look at that, Old Republic will become free to play.

I saw that coming. Played it for a month, dropped it at the end.

Game didn't have much going for it beyond story.

Taw
08-01-2012, 03:58 AM
Thread title changed as requested.

I personally don't play too many MMORPGS these days. Played tons in the past, beta tests several, and so forth.

Waiting for Guild Wars 2 to come out and then I'll be playing that. :3

If I get bored of GW2 though I'd definitely go back to TERA. Fun game, made millions in the AH during it's first month of release, and got to level 35.

Demu
08-01-2012, 04:45 AM
Thread title changed as requested.

I personally don't play too many MMORPGS these days. Played tons in the past, beta tests several, and so forth.

Waiting for Guild Wars 2 to come out and then I'll be playing that. :3

If I get bored of GW2 though I'd definitely go back to TERA. Fun game, made millions in the AH during it's first month of release, and got to level 35.

I'm going to try out Guild Wars 2 when it comes out - I enjoyed the beta. <3 I /really/ like TERA but I don't like the costliness of it. ;~; I got to 30 something.. I'm pretty sure it was 36 or 37, around the Pora Elinu area.

SirCoffeecup
08-01-2012, 05:29 AM
Guild wars 2 seems interesting. Might grab it when it's not full price

Sinjo
08-01-2012, 09:20 AM
Thread title changed as requested.

I personally don't play too many MMORPGS these days. Played tons in the past, beta tests several, and so forth.

Waiting for Guild Wars 2 to come out and then I'll be playing that. :3

If I get bored of GW2 though I'd definitely go back to TERA. Fun game, made millions in the AH during it's first month of release, and got to level 35.

heh. I quit Tera for GW2.

If all else fails, I might go back to EVE. That game held my interest and it looks like it's getting better.

Kazekai
08-01-2012, 11:46 AM
I don't like grinding or repetition and have little patience so I was only into MMOs for a couple years before I figured it wasn't for me.

Connecting with hundreds of people to adventure and roleplay with seems cool in concept until you find out that most people are dicks and then it becomes significantly less idyllic.

I'd also just like to pay for a game one time and own it. With video games, I like paying for a product, not a service.

ChitterBox
08-01-2012, 06:19 PM
I always liked Phantasy Star Online's method. You don't have to pay to enjoy the game, but if you wanted to go online with your friends you had to pay a small monthly fee. Lets you get into the game then join your friends later in a massive sci-fi creature busting party. I know that doesn't exactly work so well with MMORPGs, and PSO isn't an MMORPG, but it was still a fun game with really fun online.

Demu
08-01-2012, 06:34 PM
I always liked Phantasy Star Online's method. You don't have to pay to enjoy the game, but if you wanted to go online with your friends you had to pay a small monthly fee. Lets you get into the game then join your friends later in a massive sci-fi creature busting party. I know that doesn't exactly work so well with MMORPGs, and PSO isn't an MMORPG, but it was still a fun game with really fun online.

Is PSO2 the first pure MMO of the series? I never got into the games that much. :0

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I don't like grinding or repetition and have little patience so I was only into MMOs for a couple years before I figured it wasn't for me.

Connecting with hundreds of people to adventure and roleplay with seems cool in concept until you find out that most people are dicks and then it becomes significantly less idyllic.

I'd also just like to pay for a game one time and own it. With video games, I like paying for a product, not a service.

Agreed - I like to /own/ a game. Otherwise all of my progress seems pointless in a sense, you know?

ChitterBox
08-01-2012, 06:58 PM
Is PSO2 the first pure MMO of the series? I never got into the games that much. :0

PSO2 is definitely larger than the first, though Blue Burst added a little more to the original story with the fourth episode (don't play episode 3). Universe did a lot of things right with having towns and a lot of areas to explore, but the system was clunky and not really fun. PSO2 looks like they took what did work from PSU and brought it back into good ol' PSO style, which I am really psyched about.

We can finally jump! :D

Demu
08-01-2012, 07:02 PM
PSO2 is definitely larger than the first, though Blue Burst added a little more to the original story with the fourth episode (don't play episode 3). Universe did a lot of things right with having towns and a lot of areas to explore, but the system was clunky and not really fun. PSO2 looks like they took what did work from PSU and brought it back into good ol' PSO style, which I am really psyched about.

We can finally jump! :D

PSO2 is EXTREMELY fun. I love the mechanics and overall gameplay. <3 I like the mags too.

SirCoffeecup
08-01-2012, 10:32 PM
What was supposed to be a quick look at Gw2 cost me a night's sleepm. How the time flies when you're watching chara creations and profession vids.
Now I can't wait to break out a charr engineer or asura something.
RELEASE THE GAME NOW

RadioCatastrophe
08-02-2012, 07:06 PM
Isn't Aion B2P? I knew it was P2P at one point and I know (or hope) they aren't F2F.SWTOR is also becoming F2F soon too.

I've just started playing any games involving money to get it and/or continue playing it. I'm ok with wasting money in F2F shops cause a girl needs to look good while killing monsters and other players, but since moving in with my boyfriend he's introduced me to the other side, it isn't greener like they say but they do suit some players needs. As my bf puts it I like grindy MMO's I enjoy spending countless hours doing manual labor I wouldn't consider doing IRL, I enjoy story but I don't like reading on a game unless its important to my character. SWTOR was fun while we played but it seems it's gone to hell if it has to go F2F, feels like a waste now for the sub and the game purchase. I'm more keen to PWI and other PWE games, I also like Dragons Nest and Vindictus from Nexon, TERA was nice it game me that grindy feel and I love the combat system but no one wanted to play and when they did I had to start from square one or hold off on leveling/questing guild was too small for my liking the experience just fell apart for me I ended up on the forums more than in-game especially with the queues for the PvP servers.

I'm looking forward to play GW2 I've never played the prequel so I know little of the games background but it always caught my eye whenever I saw it on a shelf. I'm looking for more games to indulge myself in since I've been "ruined" by the pretty landscapes of Asian MMOs and their grindy quests to the point where I cannot enjoy the crappy blocky graphics of western MMOs and their in-depth storyline.